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Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #41
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 11:42 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 04:18 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 01:01 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  ...
Everyone, I have big news. ...

The dominoes start to fall when the Big East invites Dayton and St. Louis to get to 12. The Big East Conference will generate even more revenue for the Fox Sports 1 network it is in partnership with for its current television contract, ...
Man, if you blink, you miss the big news, but here is where the big news is buried: there is some way for the Big East Conference to generate incremental revenue for FS1 in excess of $100m by adding two teams.

Think about it ... if FS1 can generate in excess of $100m from two invites and the extra BBall inventory they offer FS1, at their current ratings levels, that implies a revolution in the value of regular season BBall, and that is going to filter on down several rungs. Whether the precise moves he speculates about occur or not, this in itself is major news.

Without that revolution in the business of extracting media value from regular season BBall, as FS1 established itself over the coming five years and its ratings build, it will reach the point in two or three years where that extra inventory is worth the cost, and that's when the Big East expands and the dominoes start to fall. But with that revolution the dominoes fall much faster.

Oh, I didn't miss that. But took it as evidence of his delusion. Adding those ttwo teams is going to generate 100M? Come on. This guy is full of it.

NY Times
Big East can go from $500 million over life of contract to $600 million by adding two teams.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/sports....html?_r=0

Awful Announcing reports same
http://awfulannouncing.com/2013/details-...-east.html
04-13-2014 12:39 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 11:18 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 12:37 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 12:20 AM)featherhead Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 10:40 PM)CajunExpress Wrote:  Monroe is closer to most Eastern teams, they should be there. Why does everyone always want others to carry their baggage?

If ULM is closer to the eastern schools, how would others be "carrying our baggage" if we played in the west? Since we are located very near the center of the conference footprint, either division would be ok with me. Getting to Boone from anywhere is not going to be easy, but neither is Moscow.

--featherhead

Boone is not convienent for any West Division team. Heck, its nearly a straight shot from Jonesboro once you get down to I40...but there is the little problem of the Appalachian Mountains that can cause all sorts of travel issues.
The interstate cut throughs are so low and gradual even a flat lander can handle them easily.

Don't you have to take a non interstate into Boone for like the last hour or so?

I don't worry terribly much about mountain driving, though I probably wouldn't want to try it in the snow.
04-13-2014 01:16 PM
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Saint3333 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
421 is four lanes until you get into Boone, has been for 10 years.

321, more scenic route from Charlotte and Hickory is four lanes except for about 5 miles of it as you approach Blowing Rock.

Other than the visitor parking for the game you're going to love it and will be one of the top destinations for SB fans, especially in October.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 01:23 PM by Saint3333.)
04-13-2014 01:21 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 11:47 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 09:56 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-12-2014 01:46 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  Southland has had their opportunity to take UT-RGV (formerly Pan American) for years. Pan Am made gestures every time expansion came up and the league turned it down at every opportunity.

As for New Orleans football, as far as I have read they just used that as a lie to get into Southland like Corpus did a couple of years ago. They started a club team like UT-Arlington did, but like UTA they have do plans to upgrade to the varsity level.


As for the WAC expansion,
Denver is an academic snob. They wanted out of the WAC when they heard that Grand Canyon (a for profit college) and Utah Valley (a former junior college turned university) were coming on board. I can't believe they would come back now

Grand Canyon is more problematic than Liberty (and coming from me, that's quite a statement). They are FOR PROFIT. I don't think they belong in the NCAA in any division, regardless of other issues.

Tom -- you are blinded by your own intolerance and hatred.
So I guess you are against all private schools being in the NCAA now?
Oh - and any school that makes a profit? Think UGA doesn't turn a profit on sports? Somebody sure is making a lot of money, even if the books don't show it. Non-profits like Electric Co-Ops are funny to me sometimes, because all they have to do to not show a profit is give themselves a raise or more benefits. It is just the way it works.

How about start looking at any positives each program can bring to the conference and just evaluate them on that?

But to say that Liberty shouldn't even be in the NCAA just reveals the level of hatred in your heart. Better get used to them - they will be your conference mates in about... 3, 2, .....

Maybe.

I have no idea if they will get in or not. - Just saying.. "Don't be a hater!"

Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges. I said FOR PROFIT colleges. There's a big difference. And I was referring to GCU not being in the NCAAs. To be clear, I'd love for the NCAA to institute a 'non discrimination clause' but that could be on the 10 year horizon though. When and if that is proposed, there will be two schools in FBS that will have a few decisions to make. And about 15 or so NCAA D1 schools that will have that same decision to make. But for right now, its GCU's membership in the NCAA that should be seriously questioned.

I have serious issues with for profit schools. There's a big difference between having economic motivation and incentives for the coach of the football team and having those economic incentives accrue to the person hiring and firing the football coach. It removes a layer of oversight that is IMHO critical in trying to keep athletic programs in check.

It creates a huge moral hazard. One that could have serious implications for college athletics.

I don't think Grand Canyon, or its peer, the "Test Drive College", belongs in the NCAA. Why even bother with having a real college sponsor a team in the NCAA if we're going the GCU route?

I don't like the idea of private colleges joining the Sun Belt as a general principle. But that doesn't mean that I'm opposed to them in every case. I think in general private colleges have a hard time generating support from those that didn't attend that school, so they have a much lower ceiling as far as fan support goes. Some manage it better than others (such as Tulsa as opposed to a team that doesn't Tulane). But public > private for the Sun Belt. From my viewpoint, a private school has additional hurdles as far as being viable as a FBS product. A for profit private school has even more hurdles.

And I have a degree from a private school so its not like I hate private schools. GW is a great fit for the A-10. They'd have trouble supporting football though because of their small alumni base.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 02:02 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2014 01:52 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-12-2014 01:06 PM)DrGonzo Wrote:  Of course I don't know a thing about the way things are run at Idaho, but I would expect any school to drop football before they would consider dropping down to the FCS.

This long thread has Idaho football only in the SBC .
Still in the BSC but an 8 team tighter Northwest Big Sky.

I agree dropping football and adding hockey would be better than FCS. Doubt that happens or Idaho ever moves down.
04-13-2014 02:15 PM
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Liberty Fan Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 02:25 PM by Liberty Fan.)
04-13-2014 02:16 PM
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Curtisc83 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 02:16 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead

I'm pretty sure Tom meant for-profit schools. GCU is a straight up for-profit.
04-13-2014 02:42 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 02:42 PM)Curtisc83 Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 02:16 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead

I'm pretty sure Tom meant for-profit schools. GCU is a straight up for-profit.

Yea, I'm opposed to any for profit school being in the NCAA.

The discrimination issue is another issue entirely. It will be brought up by the NCAA at some point in the next decade.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 03:25 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2014 03:15 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 02:16 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead

I'm just as opposed to Univ of Phoenix or "On-line Test Drive" U joining the NCAA
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 03:32 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-13-2014 03:30 PM
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dmacfour Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 02:16 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead

I don't think he was saying that at all.
04-13-2014 03:36 PM
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appfan89 Offline
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RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 11:59 AM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 11:18 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  The interstate cut throughs are so low and gradual even a flat lander can handle them easily.

I shall be testing that statement... whenever Texas State plays there in football.

Of course if we go to divisions, who knows when that will be.

Easy, fly into Charlotte, take 77N, hit 421W. All 4 lanes and no real, heavy duty, curvy mountain roads.

When that day happens, we'll be looking forward to hosting you.04-cheers

EDIT: I see others have replied, but as they confirmed...easy drive.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2014 03:41 PM by appfan89.)
04-13-2014 03:40 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC ...
(04-13-2014 11:42 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Oh, I didn't miss that. But took it as evidence of his delusion. Adding those ttwo teams is going to generate 100M? Come on. This guy is full of it.
Its possible that I was being a bit dry in my sarcasm there.

The Big East contract was actually was worth quite a bit to FS1, since they had a gap in their scheduling, and with MLB coming on board, they had more need for college BBall as filler than they needed college FB as filler. But that's a longer term valuation, not where they are right now. FS1 is overpaying on their short term valuation by more than any incremental benefit of adding SLU and Dayton, so the increment would be more like $00m than $100m.

So 80%+ of that crystal ball gazing followed as a direct or knock on consequence from what seems like fantasy sports economics.
04-13-2014 07:58 PM
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cmaxwellgsu Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 01:21 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  421 is four lanes until you get into Boone, has been for 10 years.

321, more scenic route from Charlotte and Hickory is four lanes except for about 5 miles of it as you approach Blowing Rock.

Other than the visitor parking for the game you're going to love it and will be one of the top destinations for SB fans, especially in October.

I stopped in Boone and ate late summer (thanks for the recommendation App fans) and if you're coming in on 321 it's not a bad drive. You'll go through a few towns and have to slow down for them, but the scenery is pretty enough that it will distract you from it. You will have very little mountain road kind of driving, and you're within an hour when you hit it. Blowing Rock is beautiful. Keep in mind I was driving from Atlanta to Findley Lake, NY and had 12 hours to go from Boone. The NC part of the drive is very pleasant.
04-13-2014 08:02 PM
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Post: #54
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-13-2014 07:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 11:42 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Oh, I didn't miss that. But took it as evidence of his delusion. Adding those ttwo teams is going to generate 100M? Come on. This guy is full of it.
Its possible that I was being a bit dry in my sarcasm there.

The Big East contract was actually was worth quite a bit to FS1, since they had a gap in their scheduling, and with MLB coming on board, they had more need for college BBall as filler than they needed college FB as filler. But that's a longer term valuation, not where they are right now. FS1 is overpaying on their short term valuation by more than any incremental benefit of adding SLU and Dayton, so the increment would be more like $00m than $100m.

So 80%+ of that crystal ball gazing followed as a direct or knock on consequence from what seems like fantasy sports economics.

Except Fox gave Big East a contract and said we will bump the value X dollars if you add two more teams because two more teams gives us more inventory in a spot we need.
04-14-2014 08:33 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-14-2014 08:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 07:58 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 11:42 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  Oh, I didn't miss that. But took it as evidence of his delusion. Adding those ttwo teams is going to generate 100M? Come on. This guy is full of it.
Its possible that I was being a bit dry in my sarcasm there.

The Big East contract was actually was worth quite a bit to FS1, since they had a gap in their scheduling, and with MLB coming on board, they had more need for college BBall as filler than they needed college FB as filler. But that's a longer term valuation, not where they are right now. FS1 is overpaying on their short term valuation by more than any incremental benefit of adding SLU and Dayton, so the increment would be more like $00m than $100m.

So 80%+ of that crystal ball gazing followed as a direct or knock on consequence from what seems like fantasy sports economics.

Except Fox gave Big East a contract and said we will bump the value X dollars if you add two more teams because two more teams gives us more inventory in a spot we need.

Here's the view from the A-10.

1) Every A-10 fanbase except those at SLU and Dayton expect both of them to get a bid to the Big East, and for both of them to take those bids, within 3 years.

2) SLU's and Dayton's fanbases think that a Big East bid for their schools is unlikely in the near term.

3) The A-10 is reluctant to add teams outside the Atlantic seaboard because they are afraid of ending up with outliers (such as Wichita State).

4) UMass is seen as defection threat, but not in the short run, as they would only leave the A-10 for the AAC (and their football product is not desirable to the AAC at this time). VCU is not seen as a defection threat due to fit issues for the Big East (public school) - UR would be the more logical Big East defection threat - but UR had a 'downish' year last year. If the AAC took basketball onlys, then there would be a real threat for defections, but the general consensus is that AAC is not looking to start the same issue that caused the old Big East to collapse (football vs basketball)

5) The overall perception is that any team in the A-10 would take a bid to the Big East or AAC if offered, but also that being in the A-10 doesn't really prevent any A-10 school from competing at the highest level and achieving/maintaining a national profile. No one is clamoring for the exits, but might be induced to leave if they saw a better opportunity. The conference believes that it has established itself on the right side of any split in D1. Eleven NCAA bids in the last two years, and sending 12 of your teams to the dance in the last 4 years will do that for you.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 10:03 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2014 09:58 AM
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RE: Acording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC ..
(04-14-2014 08:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Except Fox gave Big East a contract and said we will bump the value X dollars if you add two more teams because two more teams gives us more inventory in a spot we need.
I've seen that claimed, but normally backed by reporting that is more ambiguous, including weasel words that the forum description of the reporting often strips out. Since it would be standard practice for it to have a look-in, its important to read reporting carefully to see whether it could equally well describe either a look-in or a mandatory bump.

Someone, I believe it was Mark Blaudschun, reported before the new Big East was formed that it was believed that Fox was promising a bump when the Big East was being formed, but that doesn't imply that the bump was written into the contract after the Big East decided to launch with 10 and look at expansion later.

(04-14-2014 09:58 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the view from the A-10.

1) Every A-10 fanbase except those at SLU and Dayton expect both of them to get a bid to the Big East, and for both of them to take those bids, within 3 years.

2) SLU's and Dayton's fanbases think that a Big East bid for their schools is unlikely in the near term.
If "near term" is defined the way that the OP is (new Big East expansion announced before the current athletic year is out), then both of those could be right.

I think getting a bid in two or three year's time is more likely than getting a bid right now and fully expect the new Big East to go into the next decade with 12.

Another impressive showing in the next year or two would do Dayton a world of good in terms of landing the #12 spot.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 05:47 PM by BruceMcF.)
04-14-2014 05:41 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-14-2014 05:41 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-14-2014 08:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Except Fox gave Big East a contract and said we will bump the value X dollars if you add two more teams because two more teams gives us more inventory in a spot we need.
I've seen that claimed, but normally backed by reporting that is more ambiguous, including weasel words that the forum description of the reporting often strips out. Since it would be standard practice for it to have a look-in, its important to read reporting carefully to see whether it could equally well describe either a look-in or a mandatory bump.

Someone, I believe it was Mark Blaudschun, reported before the new Big East was formed that it was believed that Fox was promising a bump when the Big East was being formed, but that doesn't imply that the bump was written into the contract after the Big East decided to launch with 10 and look at expansion later.

(04-14-2014 09:58 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the view from the A-10.

1) Every A-10 fanbase except those at SLU and Dayton expect both of them to get a bid to the Big East, and for both of them to take those bids, within 3 years.

2) SLU's and Dayton's fanbases think that a Big East bid for their schools is unlikely in the near term.
If "near term" is defined the way that the OP is (new Big East expansion announced before the current athletic year is out), then both of those could be right.

I think getting a bid in two or three year's time is more likely than getting a bid right now and fully expect the new Big East to go into the next decade with 12.

Another impressive showing in the next year or two would do Dayton a world of good in terms of landing the #12 spot.

I think it would help, but you never know what Xavier and Butler want out of that. I think St Louis is the obvious first choice for the Big East in an expansion. But to the surprise of everyone except the Dayton and St Louis fan bases, the Big East hasn't moved.

But for the A-10, its not the end of the world if we lose them. The A-10 will just continue adapting and thriving in that environment. GW, UMass (who isn't leaving for anywhere but the AAC - and not for at least 4 years), St Joes, LaSalle, Richmond, St Bonaventure, and VCU have all been to recent NCAA tournaments. So has Davidson, but I have no idea how they will adapt to life in the A-10. Of the other four teams, one has a 2006 Final Four banner hanging in their gym.

But turning it back into a Sun Belt discussion. I fail to see why the Sun Belt cannot photocopy the A-10 rules for scheduling, funding, and revenue distribution, and make that a focus of the league. If a group of small private schools playing in 5000 seat arenas can achieve the level of success that the A-10 has, there's no reason the Sun Belt couldn't do the same.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2014 06:15 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2014 06:14 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
(04-14-2014 05:41 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(04-14-2014 08:33 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Except Fox gave Big East a contract and said we will bump the value X dollars if you add two more teams because two more teams gives us more inventory in a spot we need.
I've seen that claimed, but normally backed by reporting that is more ambiguous, including weasel words that the forum description of the reporting often strips out. Since it would be standard practice for it to have a look-in, its important to read reporting carefully to see whether it could equally well describe either a look-in or a mandatory bump.

Someone, I believe it was Mark Blaudschun, reported before the new Big East was formed that it was believed that Fox was promising a bump when the Big East was being formed, but that doesn't imply that the bump was written into the contract after the Big East decided to launch with 10 and look at expansion later.

(04-14-2014 09:58 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Here's the view from the A-10.

1) Every A-10 fanbase except those at SLU and Dayton expect both of them to get a bid to the Big East, and for both of them to take those bids, within 3 years.

2) SLU's and Dayton's fanbases think that a Big East bid for their schools is unlikely in the near term.
If "near term" is defined the way that the OP is (new Big East expansion announced before the current athletic year is out), then both of those could be right.

I think getting a bid in two or three year's time is more likely than getting a bid right now and fully expect the new Big East to go into the next decade with 12.

Another impressive showing in the next year or two would do Dayton a world of good in terms of landing the #12 spot.

NY Times is the source of the bump contract claim. I'll take that over say Bleacher Report.
04-14-2014 10:59 PM
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Post: #59
Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (ve...
(04-13-2014 03:36 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 02:16 PM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  
(04-13-2014 01:52 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Dude,

I didn't say PRIVATE colleges.

4thOption, what he was trying to say is Christian colleges should be banned from the NCAA.


http://www.gcu.edu/About-Us/Christian-Worldview.php

03-banghead

I don't think he was saying that at all.

It's highly unlikely he was, but now when Tom says he doesn't like some college for any reason, a liberty fan has to look for any mention of Christian values at that school and then claim Tom hates Christianity. It's just like when someone of a different culture acts like an ass to you in someway and you don't say anything because if you do the next thing you know it you're the worlds biggest racist. It's silly really, how this world works 03-wink.


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04-15-2014 09:40 AM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Posts: 20,650
Joined: Jun 2009
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I Root For: Appalachian St.
Location: Charlotte, N. C.
Post: #60
RE: Acoording to this guy Missouri State will be the only one joining the SBC (very long)
In a more perfect world would think Benson and the SBC would want to know what schools would
bring us a much higher television/media contract above all else. If the bill passes and we do not
need another school for a championship game, would think the one with most potential wins as
soon as possible would be the reason for adding. Mainly in football, but basketball would add to
that as well. A new better contract should be our biggest objective right now and would stabilize
the conference like nothing else.
04-15-2014 09:56 AM
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