RE: 4/7 Baseball Polls
For you, Walt:
132 Comments
BaseballAmerica.com
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scottaz • 5 hours ago
GOOD LORD.... 13 of the top 25 are SEC/ACC teams? The Pac12/Big West have only 6? could this be any more biased? Hey BA, baseball is played West of Texas, and in case you forgot, the Pac/Big West have won 6 of the last 10 CWS while you're beloved SEC/ACC has won 3.
Can someone please rationally and logically explain this to me because I can't figure it out.
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Jay P scottaz • 5 hours ago
Hey Scott, I just broke it down (see above).
SEC/ACC know how to work the system. Also, the run the Selection Committee. It all business to them and they will eventually bring an end to "amateur" sports all together.
Sorry.
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slimpickins scottaz • 2 hours ago
I've been saying same thing for years. i dont buy toooo much into BA"s rankings. it does make for some great discussion though. BA along with ESPN are sooo bias it is sick. im actually amazed they have the Ragin Cajuns even ranked, much less in top 5. Holy crap on a cracker!!!
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Austin scottaz • 5 hours ago
You ever think maybe, just maybe this year there's just more good teams in those conferences?There are six SEC teams still with single digit losses. Just four teams in PAC and Big West combined. Throw in the disappointment of Fullerton so far this year, and what warrants more ranked teams from those conferences? I know though, those conferences have more in the last ten years championship-wise, and if you're going to whine no matter what happens.
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scottaz Austin • 5 hours ago
No, because that was the excuse you used last year when a Pac team won it. It was the excuse you used two years ago when a Pac team won it. It will be the excuse you use next year when another Pac team wins it. Every year its the same: The SEC/ACC dominate the biased rankings, get 2/3 of their conferences in the tourney, get cup cake regionals, only to see a Pac or Big West team win it all. Its tiresome.
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Tyler scottaz • 3 hours ago
Also, using total CWS champions is quite a useless way to determine conference strength. Most have defined conference strength as the number of quality teams in any given conference. This metric is easily skewed by a few teams being very good baseball programs, while the bottom of the conference can be quite sub-par, leading to top-heavy conferences.
Additionally, any type of a large field tournament, (much like the NCAA tourney) can lead to random results that don't actually crown the best team that year. Baseball is a weird game, and even the best teams can have cold bats for a weekend, or an inferior team catches fire, get lots of bloop hits, and has pitchers perform at a level above their relative talent level, (Looking at you 2008 Fresno State)
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Stat Guy Tyler • 3 hours ago
So true! We shouldn't even keep score.
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Tyler Stat Guy • 3 hours ago
Right, because that was the main point of my argument. But, hey, why read and logically refute points when you can make a sarcastic comment that wholly ignores and belittles the entire point of a debate. Yay internet!
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Austin scottaz • 5 hours ago
Oh, what excuse did I use the year before that, or the one before that, or how about the one before that. By the way, 2 years ago an SEC team was in the finals again, but it just happened to lose to a better team from the west coast. With a whole 2 teams in it that year, the PAC managed to have one also knocked out by FSU, who practically forgets what baseball is in Omaha. What do you know, last year the same thing happened just replacing FSU with MSU who beat OSU twice to knock them out en route to the championship series. If it was 2 west coast teams in the finals continually, ok, I see your point, but the last time there was 2 from the same region involved Florida and USC, not UCLA or Arizona.
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Jay P Austin • 4 hours ago
The point is:
West Coast teams continue to do well in Omaha, even though much fewer get the chance. ACC send 7 teams to post season every year, but can't win the CWS. SEC has done better, but they also flood the tourney with 7 to 9 teams each year.
So, ask yourself: Why do Western teams win more championships with less chances? Or why do ACC teams never win the CWS, despite sending half the conference to the post season? Or why doesn't the SEC win more CWS Championships, with the 80 chances that they get each decade?
Would you like to discuss tourney pairings? West teams have a tougher route to Omaha, because they all get stuffed into 2 Super Regionals. ACC and SEC teams have a chance in 6 or 7 of the 8 Super Regionals each year. Yet, they still (relatively) underperform compared to Western teams. Don be mad. Just stating documented facts.
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Austin Jay P • 4 hours ago
I agree with this somewhat, I really do. I also don't know how better you do it though. If it is truly believe that teams A, B, and C are better than team D though, why should team D be rewarded with hosting a super regional because of location? Maybe the problem is that west coast teams do better in postseason than regular season. super regional sites and rankings are based off of regular season performance though.
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Jay P Austin • 3 hours ago
Yes. West Coast teams do better in post season, because they play tougher competition in preseason. We play away games against top programs. It makes d
For less impressive stats and better performing teams. All of this can be verified: Check the no conference schedules of Big West and PAC teams. Then, look at the 25 straight Home games that most SEC/ACC teams play, before conference play starts.
The ACC/SEC teams have no motivation to change their system. Their goal is MONEY FIRST, Championships second. They rather get 17 teams in the tourney, than one Champion. Sad, but true.
The players have been raised to want to play the best. Most coaches are like that too. But, coaches get paid big to WIN and it doesn't seem to matter if they are beating cupcakes. The conferences are run like a business. MONEY calls the shots. How else can you explain how good programs located so close together never play each other? It is different in the West.
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Pat Jay P • 26 minutes ago
Your an idiot, seriously! Always some clown that knows everything about everything as he sits there trying to google information to sound smart. Yes the West Coast baseball is very good and respected, but don't come into a chat room dogging the ACC and SEC, some of the most respected programs in the nation are in those 2 conferences. They also don't play anyone out of conference is just ignorant! So teams out west just play juggernauts wire to wire huh? FSU plays UF every year, as does Clemson and South Carolina, not in the same conferences there guy. No need to keep going because it's a response to a stupid statement.
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JimmyJohns80 scottaz • 5 hours ago
I like how you stopped after the past 2 years and didn't mention that an SEC school won the 3 before that.
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West Side! JimmyJohns80 • 4 hours ago
LOL. How far should we go back? Doesn't matter. West has dominates in first CWS or last 2 or ANY decade in between. You can't win this one. It is amazing that you even try.
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JimmyJohns80 West Side! • 4 hours ago
I agree that the PAC has had dominant teams (going back as far as you want). But, how does that make the SEC overrated right now?
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West Side! JimmyJohns80 • 3 hours ago
I think they are overrated because they beat up on cupcakes before conference play to get high rankings. They rarely play no conference road games, then fold on the road when conference play begins. How can they prove that they are good, if they only play cupcakes or each other? That is all I am saying.
I wish they would play in more tournaments in March. I wish they would play a more challenging schedule. Do those thing and win and NOBODY will call you overrated.
South Carolina is a good team, but they only win at home. That is not impressive to me. Same can be said about other schools in and outside the SEC. But, it is typically the SEC/ACC schools that schedule like that. Don't use weather as an excuse: western teams travel routinely.
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eherring West Side! • 9 minutes ago
We don't care what you want. We want our team to play here so we can see them in person, not listen to them on the radio. We have done tournaments in the past and can't see the attraction to them when they mean nothing. We are happy to host northern teams looking for a warmer venue to hone their skills and they want to hone them playing us.
As to the continuous whining about cupcake schedules, it is baseless. No team has won more games against Top 25 teams at this point than USC (8-1). Only five teams have more games against Top 25 teams, all of them are SEC teams. Only Cal Poly (7-2) has as many games against Top 25 teams as USC. USC is 7-5 in the SEC and Cal Poly is 5-1 in the Big West . A few west coast teams have played Top 25 teams: Oregon (1-5), UCSB (4-2), Washington (2-2), CS-F (3-0), UCLA (1-0), and Oregon State ((1-0).
We have the fans and the stadium. Teams come to us.
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eherring JimmyJohns80 • a minute ago
It doesn't. THose western whiners must think they will go to Omaha with the team they had in the past, not the one on the field today.
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eherring West Side! • a few seconds ago
USC has won 2 of the last 4.
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Austin West Side! • 4 hours ago
West coast championships (Southern Cal Championships):
1950's - 2 (1)
1960's - 7 (3)
1970's - 9 (6)
1980's - 6 (1)
1990's - 3
2000's - 4
See, it's funny because SEC fans take heat for "claiming" national championships that Alabama wins all the time.
Looks to me like it's been swaying lately.
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West Side! Austin • 4 hours ago
9 CWS Championships by the 14 current SEC teams.
ZERO CWS Championships, by the 14 current ACC teams.
28 CWS championships from the current 11 PAC teams.
4 CWS champs from the current 9 Big West teams.
We "sway" in style, I guess.
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Austin West Side! • 3 hours ago
Look at those conferences right now though, 2 PAC teams with single digit losses and 2 Big West teams with single digit losses. The SEC has 6. The ACC is overrated year in and year out. Fullerton's struggles are also really hurting perception whether you like it or not.
Anyway, I have a lab at 2:30 so I gotta go.
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West Side! Austin • 2 hours ago
Exactly! Now, lets see what happens at tournament time.
If the goal is to have the best nonconference record, then you are right on track. If the goal is to win the CWS, then we will see if beating Furman and Columbia was good preparation for Omaha.
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scottaz Austin • 4 hours ago
Ridiculous argument.
Ok, by eliminating our (PAC) historically best program we still have won 20 titles. If we eliminate the SEC's best program (LSU) and their titles (6), the SEC has won a grand total of 3.
You just proved my point even further
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Austin scottaz • 4 hours ago
When did I say to eliminate anything? I just said that you're riding coattails. When talking college football with west coasters, they eliminate Alabama's championships but nobody else's. That's also all west coast teams not just PAC so of course if you take So Cal out it will still be more than one conference on the east coast. Look, you guys come on here bashing the east coast teams every week including the SEC in that argument even though the SEC has done very well of late. We try to compare a single conference to another single conference, yet you want to do west coast vs. SEC. At no point have I said the west coast doesn't have good teams. You people on the other hand, week in and week out, come on here complaining and acting as if no east coast teams should be able to sniff these rankings until the Big West and PAC teams have all been ranked.
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West Side! Austin • 4 hours ago
You missed 2 decades (and 4 CWS Champs) -40s and 2010's
Also:
USC actually has 12 CWS Championships.
PAC has 28 CWS Championships -by 7 different teams.
Another 3 California Tams have a total of 6 CWS Championships.
34 Championships in 66 years.
2 in the last 4 years is "swaying"? Wow! We must be great!
The MOST RECENT 2 is "swaying". LOL. Ok.
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Austin West Side! • 4 hours ago
The most recent 2? I'm talking the last couple decades. You can't honestly look at that and say west coast still owns anything. Good Lord, I'm not saying west coast teams suck. I'm saying you're wrong that the east coast is not on the same level at this point.
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West Side! Austin • 3 hours ago
What! We own the 2013 and 2012 Championships. It doesn't get moe recent than that, genius.
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JimmyJohns80 Austin • 4 hours ago
The whole premise of this thread is that the SEC is overrated today and has too many teams in the Top 25. How does showing championships from the 50's, 60's, etc. do anything to strengthen that argument?
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Austin JimmyJohns80 • 4 hours ago
Mostly due to the fact that "West Side" said pick any decade and show the west coast didn't dominate so I just showed distribution of west coast championships in all full decades. It was not brought up by me.
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West Side! Austin • 3 hours ago
Thank you. You actually proved my point. While I did not use the word "dominate", the record book speaks loudly. It is an argument that you cannot win, until more champions come from outside of the west.
Without Texas, the West has indeed dominated the CWS. With Texas teams included (they are west of the Mississippi River), it is just a brutal comparison.
So, thanks for the reinforcement -even if your counting skills were a little weak.
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eight26 Austin • 4 hours ago
I'm not clear on this list. Is that West Coast and (So Cal the school?)
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Austin eight26 • 4 hours ago
Yes, that is correct.
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eight26 Austin • 4 hours ago
So Cal won in 1998
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Austin eight26 • 4 hours ago
That is my mistake then, I missed it.
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scottaz JimmyJohns80 • 4 hours ago
The state of Arizona has won more national titles (9) than the entire SEC/ACC combined (8).
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West Side! scottaz • 3 hours ago
Current ACC/SEC actually has 9 CWS championships. But, your point is just as valid.
If you count all teams west of the Mississippi River, you nick up another dozen CWS Championships. But, the Coast and AZ have the majority of the hardware.
West Side!
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Justin scottaz • 4 hours ago
You know how **REGIONALS** work, right? Other teams from the same **REGION** get together and play. So you want credit for "doing well" a tournament when the first half of doing so basically consists of beating up on a bunch of 3rd tier west coast teams that wouldn't be anywhere near the tournament if they played in the SEC/ACC?
Congrats... I think?
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West Side! Justin • 3 hours ago
Not exactly true. Regionals are seeded. Lower seeds travel. If you conference has 8 teams in the tourney (because half didn't deserve to be there), many of those teams will travel to other regions of the country.
Really no reason to debate this. The info is available and consistent each year. Last year UCLA/ Fullerton should have been in Omaha. But, they have virtually never had the chance to meet in Omaha -they always meet in Regional or Super Regional.
As for beating up 3rd tier west teams, do you mean Pepperdine or Fresno State? Because each of those two teams has mor CWS Championships than the entire ACC combined. They also have done what 11 SEC have NEVER accomplished.
Learn the facts. You sound ignorant.
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slimpickins Austin • 2 hours ago
this may help you....call 1-800-wahh....open 24/7/365 and you get an actual person thay will listen.
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Austin slimpickins • 10 minutes ago
Oh ok, my mistake. I briefly forgot west coasters can do anything while east coasters are whining while discussing anything or calling you out for whining. I'll let you all get back to your "debate" of how many east coast teams are better than your previous west coast teams now. It's really accomplishing a lot for you.
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Blake Campora • 5 hours ago
GEAUX CAJUNS!!!12 legit arms + great defense + .320 team BA = best record in baseball! Coach Robe has figured out the equation!!!
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eight26 • 6 hours ago
When was the last time you saw a top 5 team with 2 weekend series loses to non ranked teams?
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Jay P eight26 • 5 hours ago
Who? South Carolina?
They play great at home against cupcakes, but not so well on the road against anybody. Very good team, but overrated.
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eherring Jay P • 6 minutes ago
The continuous whining about cupcake schedules is baseless.
No team has won more games against Top 25 teams at this point than USC (8-1). Only five teams have played more games against Top 25 teams, all of them are SEC teams. Only Cal Poly (7-2) has as many games against Top 25 teams as USC. USC is 7-5 in the SEC and Cal Poly is 5-1 in the Big West . A few west coast teams have played Top 25 teams: Oregon (1-5), UCSB (4-2), Washington (2-2), CS-F (3-0), UCLA (1-0), and Oregon State (1-0).
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Austin eight26 • 5 hours ago
You're counting Kentucky as unranked? Have you seen what they've been doing?
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eight26 Austin • 5 hours ago
Revisionist history notwithstanding, yes.
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Austin eight26 • 5 hours ago
Ha, it's revisionist history that a team hit its hot streak at that point and continues riding it into the top 15? You west coasters crack me up with your conspiracy theories. Fullerton is still not a bad loss for anyone though right?
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eight26 Austin • 3 hours ago
That is what revisionist history means, in this context, yes. You can't say S Carolina lost to a ranked team in the past just because they are ranked in the present. I mean, you could, but I don't know why you would.
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