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I'm amused by recent comments from X fans referring to Dayton as "little brother". I guess they need a school to look down on.

Funny thing though, UD is a larger university with an impressive tradition and fan following. They are the home team in Dayton; their arena is 30% larger than big brother's and usually filled to capacity. And in that arena hangs a Final Four banner. So who really is the little brother?

(03-29-2014 01:33 PM)indycat Wrote:  I'm amused by recent comments from X fans referring to Dayton as "little brother". I guess they need a school to look down on.

Funny thing though, UD is a larger university with an impressive tradition and fan following. They are the home team in Dayton; their arena is 30% larger than big brother's and usually filled to capacity. And in that arena hangs a Final Four banner. So who really is the little brother?

Bueller, Bueller, Bueller, anyone.

(03-29-2014 01:33 PM)indycat Wrote:  I'm amused by recent comments from X fans referring to Dayton as "little brother". I guess they need a school to look down on.

Funny thing though, UD is a larger university with an impressive tradition and fan following. They are the home team in Dayton; their arena is 30% larger than big brother's and usually filled to capacity. And in that arena hangs a Final Four banner. So who really is the little brother?

We'll X has a "final 5" banner.

Dayton's lost something like 30 straight games at XU, dating back to the last days of the Carter Administration. I think they have a little bit of a claim over UD.

(03-29-2014 11:53 PM)levydl Wrote:  Dayton's lost something like 30 straight games at XU, dating back to the last days of the Carter Administration. I think they have a little bit of a claim over UD.

AND they're cut from a different cloth, Ugzavier that is.

(03-29-2014 01:33 PM)indycat Wrote:  I'm amused by recent comments from X fans referring to Dayton as "little brother". I guess they need a school to look down on.

Must be tough for XU fans, there are so few candidates available for them to look down on

UD has a ton more money than XU. XU is cutting positions because their enrollment is down, Dayton is adding positions. In terms of academics, it really isn't close, Dayton outclasses XU.

I had said this in another thread but I have heard from a few good sources that XU does not want UD in the nBE.

(03-31-2014 12:07 PM)Crewdogz Wrote:  I had said this in another thread but I have heard from a few good sources that XU does not want UD in the nBE.

If true it is probably because they are on a downward spiral as a school. I talked to a great source at UD who said that XU faculty members are applying to Dayton in droves due to budget cuts across the board. XU is in a mess financially. Giving Dayton an opening into the Big East would probably hurt XU further with faculty seeing Dayton as "of the same level" as Xavier. Athletically UD is XU's TV contract away from having the same budget, essentially. Dayton's 13,000 at every game and huge support from their local corporate sponsors keeps them competitive financially with most of the Big East.

That being said... he told me he has not heard anything regarding XU blocking Dayton. He said if anything Dayton's performance and Butler falling on its face without Stevens as head coach has caused the Big East in general to be wary about adding anyone. They don't want to screw up again. I heard there is also possibly some animosity because there were a contingent of schools that wanted Dayton over Butler due to the fact Dayton is a Catholic university. This tournament has potentially added a few Dayton supporters to further argue that if anyone gets added it is Dayton.

Time will tell...

I too have heard rumblings that all may not be well institutionally over on Victory Parkway, but I have no evidence to corroborate those reports. There was certainly a realization when they began looking at new peer institutions in conference such as Georgetown, that X has a long way to go on endowment and private support. In the old Big East UC found that salaries for Olympic sports coaches had to move up just to remain competitive with conference peers so with added revenues (their TV deal) there are also added expenses.

I was always under the impression that, academically, X was far more rigorous than UD. It's said to be a Jesuit thing.

(04-01-2014 11:28 AM)Former Lurker Wrote:  I was always under the impression that, academically, X was far more rigorous than UD. It's said to be a Jesuit thing.

As far as I know, undergrad at X is not that rigorous in any way.

Honestly, I don't know much about X since they have basically zero engineering there. If you want to go into any kind of math based profession I don't think Xavier is even an option.

Unlike UC, X faculty and staff have tuition benefits for their children that are transferable to other Catholic universities. I'm aware of several cases where those parents have intentionally chosen to send their own kids to UD or St. Louis University.

X always used to boast of their MBA program which UC just blew by in the latest rankings. That has to hurt. Try finding a ranked specialty or discipline over there in the U.S. News survey. In the past they've never been classified as a national university for ranking purposes but have crowed about being a top 10 school in the Midwest. Of course they weren't competing with Midwest schools Notre Dame, Marquette or Michigan--all were evaluated with the national universities group where UC is measured.

(04-02-2014 07:39 AM)indycat Wrote:  Unlike UC, X faculty and staff have tuition benefits for their children that are transferable to other Catholic universities. I'm aware of several cases where those parents have intentionally chosen to send their own kids to UD or St. Louis University.

X always used to boast of their MBA program which UC just blew by in the latest rankings. That has to hurt. Try finding a ranked specialty or discipline over there in the U.S. News survey. In the past they've never been classified as a national university for ranking purposes but have crowed about being a top 10 school in the Midwest. Of course they weren't competing with Midwest schools Notre Dame, Marquette or Michigan--all were evaluated with the national universities group where UC is measured.

UC passed up Miami's program as well. I wish we would do a better job pointing that out across the region.

I've long speculated that X began its downward recruitment spiral because they decided to use basketball as an advertising medium to generate more public awareness and applications. X lost me when they dropped their principles to recruit good players over good people, while maintaining their air of moral superiority.

I don't know that Dayton is all that much wealthier than X, but I do know that X isn't exactly brimming with cash, and they are in a tough position.

If X were a top-notch academic institution that can command high tuition (ie Georgetown) that would be one thing. Unfortunately for them, X is merely decent. As the model for higher education changes, many schools will fail to remain competitive, and I've pondered whether X will be able to keep up.

edited to add: X's endowment is $144M, according to their website. That's fairly small. UD's is around $400M. Not exactly huge for a private institution, but a lot better.