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The matter of no respect
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GaSoEagle Offline
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Post: #21
RE: The matter of no respect
This helps explain why it will be very difficult to get the votes for any Southland team to join the Sun Belt.
03-28-2014 09:24 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #22
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 09:24 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  This helps explain why it will be very difficult to get the votes for any Southland team to join the Sun Belt.

Two of the other SLC members when the DI-A to DI-AA force and membership issues occurred are currently Sun Belt members by way of other conferences (Arkansas State and Texas-Arlington). Another left the SLC, was a Sun Belt member and made a bad decision to return to the SLC (in my opinion), my university. McNeese State is the only current SLC member around at the time that has had no Sun Belt history.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 09:48 PM by LUSportsFan.)
03-28-2014 09:45 PM
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chiefsfan Offline
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Post: #23
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 09:45 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 09:24 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  This helps explain why it will be very difficult to get the votes for any Southland team to join the Sun Belt.

Two of the other SLC members when the DI-A to DI-AA force and membership issues occurred are currently Sun Belt members by way of other conferences (Arkansas State and Texas-Arlington). Another left the SLC, was a Sun Belt member and made a bad decision to return to the SLC (in my opinion), my university. McNeese State is the only current SLC member around at the time that has had no Sun Belt history.

We may have been together at one point, but Lamar irritated a lot of people when they voluntarily chose to drop football.

It set a bad precedent that I am not sure will be forgotten that easily.
03-28-2014 10:04 PM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #24
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 09:20 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 07:56 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  Louisiana-Lafayette booted from the Southland when the SLC was reclassified FBS. Cast around as an indy finally landing in the Big West and passed by their indy neighbors for the new C-USA. Sitting between Tulane and Houston... not a surprise.

What was the story here? We were booted from the Southland?

While I don't recall the circumstances of the Cajuns leaving the Southland, I do recall that when we went FBS, the AD or President of McNeese said something to the effect, "some schools are happy to compete at the bottom of their division (meaning the Cajuns) while others (meaning McNeese) will compete at the top of theirs".

Did McNeese ever leave the Southland? I don't think so. I thought the Southland was always FCS.
McNeese never left, but they opted to go D-IAA.

The Southland Conference was D-IA until 1982 along with several other current FCS conferences (Ivy League, Missouri Valley, and some others that I don't remember off the top of my head). Those conferences were forced down to D-IAA because member universities didn't meet the attendance requirements...a lot more stringent requirements than they are now. The Southland Conference was actually the host conference for the Independence Bowl in its early years. That went away with the conference force down.

The Ragin' Cajuns and McNeese met the requirements. The Ragin' Cajuns opted to remain D-IA. McNeese met the requirements but decided to drop with the rest of the conference. (I think the Ragin' Cajuns made the right move.) The Southland had a rule that if a member played a sport sponsored by the conference, the member needed to play the conference schedule. The Ragin' Cajuns couldn't do that and remain D-IA. The Southland didn't offer any relief in the rules. (I think that was a shame...lost a good conference member with a lot of success in sports other than football.)

A year or so later, several universities left the conference to form the American South Conference.

Thanks for the detailed info LUSportsFan. With your help it's now coming back to me.

The Southland was a chickenshat conference from what I recall, often going out of their way to punish members.

I recall that one year while we were still in the Southland, the Cajuns had a decent football win streak going, winning several early-season games including one against either Cincy or ECU (don't recall) on the road. An eligibility issue arose involving the Cajun punter but was of such a minor nature that the NCAA told the program there were no NCAA violations involved......in other words, "carry on".

Regardless, the Southland, being the dicks they were, forced the Cajuns to forfeit the games and if I recall correctly, forced the team to suspend the punter.

I'm betting forum member swampbear would recall the exact details.

As I said, it was chickenshat conference, and there were many instances of their chickenshatness over the years, and I was plenty glad to see us dump that stinkin' chickenshat conference.

Did I mention I though the Southland was chickenshat?
03-28-2014 10:08 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 10:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 09:45 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 09:24 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  This helps explain why it will be very difficult to get the votes for any Southland team to join the Sun Belt.

Two of the other SLC members when the DI-A to DI-AA force and membership issues occurred are currently Sun Belt members by way of other conferences (Arkansas State and Texas-Arlington). Another left the SLC, was a Sun Belt member and made a bad decision to return to the SLC (in my opinion), my university. McNeese State is the only current SLC member around at the time that has had no Sun Belt history.

We may have been together at one point, but Lamar irritated a lot of people when they voluntarily chose to drop football.

It set a bad precedent that I am not sure will be forgotten that easily.

The people that made the decision irritated a lot of the Lamar fans including me, also. I don't think too many of those decision makers are around anymore. It took me a long time to get over killing the sport. I was a season ticket holder from 1975-1989. We went from beating a top 20 ranked Baylor at home in 1981 to no football in 1990. I saw the last game against the Ragin' Cajuns in 1989. If I recall correctly, we were 5-5 on an independent D-IAA schedule with one of the wins against UTEP in El Paso in1989. Dropping the sport really hurt in several ways...penny wise, pound foolish was never better exemplified. That's one of the reasons I was excited when I heard the University was bringing football back.

In the interim, on moving to Houston, I got season tickets to my other university, Texas A&M, from 1992-2008. We dropped the A&M tickets when my Uncle got too feeble and my wife's knees got too bad to make the long walks. Lamar football came back and wife and I are back at Lamar games now.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2014 10:32 PM by LUSportsFan.)
03-28-2014 10:30 PM
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Post: #26
RE: The matter of no respect
UTA had to leave the SLC as well. I talked to our AD/football coach at the time and asked if UTA would be accommodated. He said, "If they wouldn't let USL stay, they better not think about letting UTA stay."
03-29-2014 10:39 AM
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Oldyeller Offline
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Post: #27
RE: The matter of no respect
This could be the perfect storm for the Sun Belt. While the FBS landscape seems to be entering an extended period of stability the Sun Belt get's the nod as the most competitive of the G5. Achieving this with newer football members Texas State and South Alabama, while also carrying significant dead weight. Arguably the most dead weight in the league. Let's not be too short sighted here. The dead weight has an extremely nice upside as it relates to money, talent, and exposure for the conference.

Enter stage right Appy and GS. Both have walked the proverbial 20 mile hike up hill with snow shoes on through a mine field to finally get where they are but as we can see, the reality is, we may be the spoiled little brother who played in junior league a few more years while big brother got the crap beat out of him. Or we could be just right for the move. Regardless we are here and feeling grateful and hopefully well prepared with fresh legs to tote some water and yes eat some sh#* sandwiches. The future looks pretty dang good and I for one am extreeemely pumped.04-cheers
03-29-2014 02:59 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #28
RE: The matter of no respect
Respect can be achieved quickly in a season or two.

One team stepping up and getting ranked would be the quickest way.
Louisiana beating Boise early and maybe going 11-1 could change perception as early as next year.

So could a nice run by any other conference member .
03-29-2014 10:52 PM
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FoUTASportscaster Offline
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Post: #29
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-29-2014 10:39 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  UTA had to leave the SLC as well. I talked to our AD/football coach at the time and asked if UTA would be accommodated. He said, "If they wouldn't let USL stay, they better not think about letting UTA stay."

Our AD at the time, Dr. Bill Reeves, was unapologetic when asked why we had to seek another conference when we dropped football. He basically said when we founded the conference, we helped write the rules.

The rules were changed after the 1986/87 year when Arkansas State, Lamar and Louisiana Tech left and Texas State along with Northwestern St, Sam Houston and SFA joined. Ironically, it was North Texas that was our biggest booster. After our men's team played as an independent for a year, UTA was back in the conference.
03-29-2014 11:39 PM
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Yosef84 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 09:20 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 07:56 PM)CajunFanatico Wrote:  Louisiana-Lafayette booted from the Southland when the SLC was reclassified FBS. Cast around as an indy finally landing in the Big West and passed by their indy neighbors for the new C-USA. Sitting between Tulane and Houston... not a surprise.

What was the story here? We were booted from the Southland?

While I don't recall the circumstances of the Cajuns leaving the Southland, I do recall that when we went FBS, the AD or President of McNeese said something to the effect, "some schools are happy to compete at the bottom of their division (meaning the Cajuns) while others (meaning McNeese) will compete at the top of theirs".

Did McNeese ever leave the Southland? I don't think so. I thought the Southland was always FCS.
McNeese never left, but they opted to go D-IAA.

The Southland Conference was D-IA until 1982 along with several other current FCS conferences (Ivy League, Missouri Valley, and some others that I don't remember off the top of my head). Those conferences were forced down to D-IAA because member universities didn't meet the attendance requirements...a lot more stringent requirements than they are now. The Southland Conference was actually the host conference for the Independence Bowl in its early years. That went away with the conference force down.

The Ragin' Cajuns and McNeese met the requirements. The Ragin' Cajuns opted to remain D-IA. McNeese met the requirements but decided to drop with the rest of the conference. (I think the Ragin' Cajuns made the right move.) The Southland had a rule that if a member played a sport sponsored by the conference, the member needed to play the conference schedule. The Ragin' Cajuns couldn't do that and remain D-IA. The Southland didn't offer any relief in the rules. (I think that was a shame...lost a good conference member with a lot of success in sports other than football.)

In 1987, several universities (Arkansas State, Louisiana Tech, and Lamar) left the conference to form the American South Conference along with UL, UNO, and UTPA.

The SoCon (including Appalachian State) was also one of those former D1A conferences that was pushed down in 1982...for what it's worth).
03-30-2014 07:31 AM
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BRtransplant Offline
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Post: #31
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-29-2014 10:52 PM)MJG Wrote:  Respect can be achieved quickly in a season or two.

One team stepping up and getting ranked would be the quickest way.
Louisiana beating Boise early and maybe going 11-1 could change perception as early as next year.

So could a nice run by any other conference member .

It isn't easy to go into Boise and get a win, but it is very important that UL-L doesn't to go there and lay an egg. This game will pit against each other what most think will be the best both conferences have to offer in 2014. A Cajun win in Boise would be huge for the SBC. I don't see that happening, but even a hard fought respectable loss, especially one on Boise's home field, would be a positive for the SBC. If its a Boise blowout over the Cajuns, the media will spin it as the game result was what could have been expected, and the SBC's reputation will take a hit. I think Boise will win by 14 after a respectable showing by UL-L.
04-01-2014 04:19 AM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #32
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-29-2014 11:39 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 10:39 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  UTA had to leave the SLC as well. I talked to our AD/football coach at the time and asked if UTA would be accommodated. He said, "If they wouldn't let USL stay, they better not think about letting UTA stay."

Our AD at the time, Dr. Bill Reeves, was unapologetic when asked why we had to seek another conference when we dropped football. He basically said when we founded the conference, we helped write the rules.

The rules were changed after the 1986/87 year when Arkansas State, Lamar and Louisiana Tech left and Texas State along with Northwestern St, Sam Houston and SFA joined. Ironically, it was North Texas that was our biggest booster. After our men's team played as an independent for a year, UTA was back in the conference.

I had many talks with Bill Reeves back then. to me it seemed like he was happy with being at a lower level of sports competition. he once told me that when we started selling out games against mcneese and the like, he would think about expanding the stadium or press more for a real basketball facility..my advice to him was that that would never happen because metroplex fans would never come out in large numbers to see any of those matchups and no name school would come in to our place with the crappy facilities we had. my comment to him once was that everyone but us was in a constant process of upgrading and improving their brand and we were going the other way..it never seemed to concern the leaders we had back then. after we dropped football, many of us scaled our monetary support back to the minimum level. I am back in the maverick club now and am a lot more excited about our direction.
04-01-2014 07:55 AM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #33
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-28-2014 10:04 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 09:45 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(03-28-2014 09:24 PM)GaSoEagle Wrote:  This helps explain why it will be very difficult to get the votes for any Southland team to join the Sun Belt.

Two of the other SLC members when the DI-A to DI-AA force and membership issues occurred are currently Sun Belt members by way of other conferences (Arkansas State and Texas-Arlington). Another left the SLC, was a Sun Belt member and made a bad decision to return to the SLC (in my opinion), my university. McNeese State is the only current SLC member around at the time that has had no Sun Belt history.

We may have been together at one point, but Lamar irritated a lot of people when they voluntarily chose to drop football.

It set a bad precedent that I am not sure will be forgotten that easily.

I have nothing against Lamar personally. But I have the opinion that anyone who dropped their football program has to do more to prove themselves after they restart. Lamar hasn't done this yet. IMO they need to make some noise at the FCS level before considering a move up.

Part of this attitude comes from the pure HELL we went through to keep our football program alive during the time Lamar was gone. It was not fun and not pleasant. Dropping the football program at that time seemed like the easy way out.

I wish Lamar well. We have a 26 game history with them. If they can make some FCS noise my attitude would change.
04-01-2014 11:08 AM
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pjc1979 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: The matter of no respect
(03-29-2014 02:59 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  This could be the perfect storm for the Sun Belt. While the FBS landscape seems to be entering an extended period of stability the Sun Belt get's the nod as the most competitive of the G5. Achieving this with newer football members Texas State and South Alabama, while also carrying significant dead weight. Arguably the most dead weight in the league. Let's not be too short sighted here. The dead weight has an extremely nice upside as it relates to money, talent, and exposure for the conference.

Enter stage right Appy and GS. Both have walked the proverbial 20 mile hike up hill with snow shoes on through a mine field to finally get where they are but as we can see, the reality is, we may be the spoiled little brother who played in junior league a few more years while big brother got the crap beat out of him. Or we could be just right for the move. Regardless we are here and feeling grateful and hopefully well prepared with fresh legs to tote some water and yes eat some sh#* sandwiches. The future looks pretty dang good and I for one am extreeemely pumped.04-cheers

Excellent way to put it regarding the spoiled little brother. I'm sure most long-timers in the Sun Belt see it that way and in many ways is true. All the same, both schools have lots of potential and will certainly only enhance this conference. If the Sun Belt can get some extended period of membership stability we can build this into one of the most admired G5 conferences. I believe this conference's most competitive football years are just ahead of it.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2014 03:29 PM by pjc1979.)
04-01-2014 03:28 PM
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CajunFanatico Offline
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Post: #35
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-01-2014 03:28 PM)pjc1979 Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 02:59 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  This could be the perfect storm for the Sun Belt. While the FBS landscape seems to be entering an extended period of stability the Sun Belt get's the nod as the most competitive of the G5. Achieving this with newer football members Texas State and South Alabama, while also carrying significant dead weight. Arguably the most dead weight in the league. Let's not be too short sighted here. The dead weight has an extremely nice upside as it relates to money, talent, and exposure for the conference.

Enter stage right Appy and GS. Both have walked the proverbial 20 mile hike up hill with snow shoes on through a mine field to finally get where they are but as we can see, the reality is, we may be the spoiled little brother who played in junior league a few more years while big brother got the crap beat out of him. Or we could be just right for the move. Regardless we are here and feeling grateful and hopefully well prepared with fresh legs to tote some water and yes eat some sh#* sandwiches. The future looks pretty dang good and I for one am extreeemely pumped.04-cheers

Excellent way to put it regarding the spoiled little brother. I'm sure most long-timers in the Sun Belt see it that way and in many ways is true. All the same, both schools have lots of potential and will certainly only enhance this conference. If the Sun Belt can get some extended period of membership stability we can build this into one of the most admired G5 conferences. I believe this conference's most competitive football years are just ahead of it.

I'm terrible with predictions but still feel that the Belt is on the verge of establishing itself as a 'name' conference as it relates to football. And I believe that day will come sooner, rather than later. This is why I harp constantly on the fact that the best football schools should stay put and be patient instead of jumping ship.

Sorry WKU.
04-01-2014 03:40 PM
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CrazyCajun Offline
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Post: #36
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-01-2014 04:19 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 10:52 PM)MJG Wrote:  Respect can be achieved quickly in a season or two.

One team stepping up and getting ranked would be the quickest way.
Louisiana beating Boise early and maybe going 11-1 could change perception as early as next year.

So could a nice run by any other conference member .

It isn't easy to go into Boise and get a win, but it is very important that UL-L doesn't to go there and lay an egg. This game will pit against each other what most think will be the best both conferences have to offer in 2014. A Cajun win in Boise would be huge for the SBC. I don't see that happening, but even a hard fought respectable loss, especially one on Boise's home field, would be a positive for the SBC. If its a Boise blowout over the Cajuns, the media will spin it as the game result was what could have been expected, and the SBC's reputation will take a hit. I think Boise will win by 14 after a respectable showing by UL-L.

That is based upon the fact that Boise State has a new coach and new QB? And of course UL has 17 starters returning so they don't have a shot. I think this game will be a lot closer then you think and a lot closer then the Cajuns game at home against Tech.
04-02-2014 03:55 PM
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VandyBen Offline
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Post: #37
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-02-2014 03:55 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 04:19 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 10:52 PM)MJG Wrote:  Respect can be achieved quickly in a season or two.

One team stepping up and getting ranked would be the quickest way.
Louisiana beating Boise early and maybe going 11-1 could change perception as early as next year.

So could a nice run by any other conference member .

It isn't easy to go into Boise and get a win, but it is very important that UL-L doesn't to go there and lay an egg. This game will pit against each other what most think will be the best both conferences have to offer in 2014. A Cajun win in Boise would be huge for the SBC. I don't see that happening, but even a hard fought respectable loss, especially one on Boise's home field, would be a positive for the SBC. If its a Boise blowout over the Cajuns, the media will spin it as the game result was what could have been expected, and the SBC's reputation will take a hit. I think Boise will win by 14 after a respectable showing by UL-L.

That is based upon the fact that Boise State has a new coach and new QB? And of course UL has 17 starters returning so they don't have a shot. I think this game will be a lot closer then you think and a lot closer then the Cajuns game at home against Tech.

[As a Vandal], I would love to see the Cajuns knock the "donk"' out of Boise St. I'm going to go to that game to cheer on my SBC brethern. 04-cheers

This is a good thread. The SBC has a storied history and Idaho was here at the begining. All I really can add is that Idaho has had an up and down FBS history, down as of late, but going back a ways it is full of pride. Honestly, we are greatful to be in the SBC, and happy Benson and everyone took us in from the independence wasteland of FBS. I have a feeling Idaho football is at a turning point and I hope we can be good conference mates and perhaps develop some rivalries along the way. I understand some folks uneasiness about having Idaho in the SBC (travel, etc.), but I want them to know Idaho wants to help make the SBC the best of the G5. We all have the same goal, and my hope is that Idaho will earn people's respect and change the way they feel about us being in the SBC.
04-02-2014 05:39 PM
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Oldyeller Offline
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Post: #38
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-02-2014 05:39 PM)VandyBen Wrote:  
(04-02-2014 03:55 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  
(04-01-2014 04:19 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  
(03-29-2014 10:52 PM)MJG Wrote:  Respect can be achieved quickly in a season or two.

One team stepping up and getting ranked would be the quickest way.
Louisiana beating Boise early and maybe going 11-1 could change perception as early as next year.

So could a nice run by any other conference member .

It isn't easy to go into Boise and get a win, but it is very important that UL-L doesn't to go there and lay an egg. This game will pit against each other what most think will be the best both conferences have to offer in 2014. A Cajun win in Boise would be huge for the SBC. I don't see that happening, but even a hard fought respectable loss, especially one on Boise's home field, would be a positive for the SBC. If its a Boise blowout over the Cajuns, the media will spin it as the game result was what could have been expected, and the SBC's reputation will take a hit. I think Boise will win by 14 after a respectable showing by UL-L.

That is based upon the fact that Boise State has a new coach and new QB? And of course UL has 17 starters returning so they don't have a shot. I think this game will be a lot closer then you think and a lot closer then the Cajuns game at home against Tech.

[As a Vandal], I would love to see the Cajuns knock the "donk"' out of Boise St. I'm going to go to that game to cheer on my SBC brethern. 04-cheers

This is a good thread. The SBC has a storied history and Idaho was here at the begining. All I really can add is that Idaho has had an up and down FBS history, down as of late, but going back a ways it is full of pride. Honestly, we are greatful to be in the SBC, and happy Benson and everyone took us in from the independence wasteland of FBS. I have a feeling Idaho football is at a turning point and I hope we can be good conference mates and perhaps develop some rivalries along the way. I understand some folks uneasiness about having Idaho in the SBC (travel, etc.), but I want them to know Idaho wants to help make the SBC the best of the G5. We all have the same goal, and my hope is that Idaho will earn people's respect and change the way they feel about us being in the SBC.

Speaking of walking 10 miles through a mine field with snow shoes. Idaho garners much of it's respect for hanging tough despite their own travel burdens. If Idaho can do it we can certainly make a once every other year hike to the potato capital. 04-cheers
04-02-2014 05:56 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #39
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-02-2014 03:55 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  That is based upon the fact that Boise State has a new coach and new QB? And of course UL has 17 starters returning so they don't have a shot. I think this game will be a lot closer then you think and a lot closer then the Cajuns game at home against Tech.

Who is going to be calling plays at Boise? Harsin had no idea how to use the talent he had at Arkansas State. It was a nightmare until he fired himself and let someone else figure it out.

He may have a better shot at Boise because they were recruited more to his style but who knows.

It will certainly be interesting to see how that plays out.
04-02-2014 06:45 PM
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Post: #40
RE: The matter of no respect
(04-02-2014 06:45 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(04-02-2014 03:55 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  That is based upon the fact that Boise State has a new coach and new QB? And of course UL has 17 starters returning so they don't have a shot. I think this game will be a lot closer then you think and a lot closer then the Cajuns game at home against Tech.

Who is going to be calling plays at Boise? Harsin had no idea how to use the talent he had at Arkansas State. It was a nightmare until he fired himself and let someone else figure it out.

He may have a better shot at Boise because they were recruited more to his style but who knows.

It will certainly be interesting to see how that plays out.

Out of the two non-confernce road games, UL will have a shot against Boise State. The Cajuns will be a 21 pt dog against Ole Miss.
04-02-2014 07:40 PM
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