I would add Missouri State and be done for the time being. Belmont would be a nice get in bball but not right now not w/o another olympic add to pair with them.

I don't think Belmont would accept an SBC invite. Bus league,local rivals,class time, less expensive,and easier route to the dance.

(03-16-2014 10:39 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:30 PM)RoyK Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:08 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  The Sun Belt has three major areas of concern when considering future expansion....which looks like May at the earliest.

Concern one...leadership.

Benson has to be one of the least respected conference commissioners and an embarrassment to its members. I never felt that with Wright Walters.

He needs to be removed.

Concern two...football... getting to at least 12 members

In addition to the eleven who will be playing next year add Missouri State and Eastern Kentucky

It will create a seven team western division and a six team eastern division. The western division would play each other and two cross over games while the eastern division would play each other and play three cross over games.

Concern three...beef up basketball image by adding Belmont and NMSU in all sports to go along with Missouri State and EKU should enhance our image.

There could be three divisions...

Eastern Division

Appalachian State
Belmont
Eastern Kentucky
Georgia Southern
Georgia State

Central Division

Arkansas State
Arkansas Little Rock
Missouri State
South Alabama
Troy

Western Division

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
New Mexico State
Texas Arlington
Texas State

Each team would play division members twice and members of the other two divisions once for 16 game conference schedule.

Surely adding NMSU, Missouri State, Belmont and EKU would strengthen
the Sun Belt's image and our rpi ratings should go up.

What did you do with Idaho.

I didn't eleminate Idaho... I said the eleven playing next year. Idaho helped get fbs football started in the belt...in which we are all grateful.

Adding EKU would help give App State a travel partner and they have announced they want to move up. Better choice than Liberty or JMU who wants desperately to be in the MAC or Jacksonville State who will lack the support needed.

The three divisions I set up were for basketball only.

But with 14...we could divide into two divisions of 7. The only problem is who goes east...ULL, ULM or UALR?

Where do you get JSU would lack support? Our attendance would only be behind JMU.

JSUs budget is a little below "candidates" MoSt, EKU and SHSU. Slightly above "candidates" ALSt and TN St and members GaSo and ULM. Term candidate is used very loosely.

Not much difference on the budget side from any of the mentioned teams. JMU is higher than others but also include several items like band others do not. JSU would go up several million if band was included as we took our band to Eastern Washington for a playoff game this year and the band will go to Michigan St this season plus several other away games.

(03-17-2014 12:07 AM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:29 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:26 PM)CrazyCajun Wrote:  You bet I do when it comes to Waters. Remember, he took verbal agreements as bowl contracts? Benson hasn't come close to that historically idiotic decision.

Waters did not like conference realignment, did not agree with conference realignment, did not want to take part in conference realignment.

There was a point where we should have taken UTSA and TXST, killed the WAC leaving LaTech no place to go....then roped in LaTech with a high buyout.

Could have been done. We did nothing and here we are.

I still feel that is our biggest regret as a league. Not jumping on UTSA and Texas State a year earlier when they were there for the taking.

So, in a perfect world in which conference realignment was beneficial to the SBC, what would be a realistic "best long-term scenario" Sun Belt football lineup?

Arkansas State
Louisiana
Texas State
UTSA
North Texas
ULM
Louisiana Tech

WKU
MTSU
Troy
Georgia Southern
App
USA
...Georgia State?

(03-16-2014 10:20 PM)RoyK Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:17 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 10:08 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  The Sun Belt has three major areas of concern when considering future expansion....which looks like May at the earliest.

Concern one...leadership.

Benson has to be one of the least respected conference commissioners and an embarrassment to its members. I never felt that with Wright Walters.

He needs to be removed.

Concern two...football... getting to at least 12 members

In addition to the eleven who will be playing next year add Missouri State and Eastern Kentucky

It will create a seven team western division and a six team eastern division. The western division would play each other and two cross over games while the eastern division would play each other and play three cross over games.

Concern three...beef up basketball image by adding Belmont and NMSU in all sports to go along with Missouri State and EKU should enhance our image.

There could be three divisions...

Eastern Division

Appalachian State
Belmont
Eastern Kentucky
Georgia Southern
Georgia State

Central Division

Arkansas State
Arkansas Little Rock
Missouri State
South Alabama
Troy

Western Division

Louisiana Lafayette
Louisiana Monroe
New Mexico State
Texas Arlington
Texas State

Each team would play division members twice and members of the other two divisions once for 16 game conference schedule.

Surely adding NMSU, Missouri State, Belmont and EKU would strengthen
the Sun Belt's image and our rpi ratings should go up.

You're taking these steps way too far.

We want to improve our image...but the problem is that we have to agree on the best way to do it. In addition, we have to manage our playoff money wisely.

That means we're likely going no more than 13 in football...and 14 in Olympics. And there is a strong possibility it stops at 12 in both.

Super Conferences have never worked.

And won't work. To many agendas to keep everyone happy .

I can't follow the expansionist. Do you want 12, 14, or is it 16 teams now? And all of it is silly conjecture which will result in the continued weakening of the SunBelt and our football programs with more FCS teams coming into the conference. And while some here will shoot themselves if they don't get a championship game, some P5 conferences have presented a proposal requesting the NCAA to allow each conference to determine themselves how to crown their conference champion without playing a championship game. Approval of this proposal could mean the divisional championship game may be gone very soon. Numbers will only weaken our per team income from the BCS and hurt the image of our improving strength in football. There is no reason to add anyone in light of this new P5 proposal.

(03-16-2014 10:08 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  The Sun Belt has three major areas of concern when considering future expansion....which looks like May at the earliest.

Concern one...leadership.

Benson has to be one of the least respected conference commissioners and an embarrassment to its members. I never felt that with Wright Walters.

He needs to be removed.

Concern two...football... getting to at least 12 members

In addition to the eleven who will be playing next year add Missouri State and Eastern Kentucky

It will create a seven team western division and a six team eastern division. The western division would play each other and two cross over games while the eastern division would play each other and play three cross over games.

Concern three...beef up basketball image by adding Belmont and NMSU in all sports to go along with Missouri State and EKU should enhance our image.

There could be three divisions...

I am not sure what Benson has done wrong, other than mentioning Liberty incessantly as a 12th team and never mentioning Missouri State. He was hired by the University Presidents, so if you don't like Benson maybe the Presidents need to be replaced as well.

The SBC needs one FCS school. Adding a 2nd FCS school to go to 13 makes no sense. There is no additional money going to 13. They just want a CCG for football and divisions for olympic sports to reduce travel. That will be done with 12.

Leaving a conference is not easy unless the revenue is significantly better. For example, Belmont in the OVC would have to pay an exit fee of $500,000 (with a two year notice) to leave the OVC plus the loss of their year end revenue and pay an entrance fee into the SBC. The SBC revenue for Belmont would be about the same. They are not going to leave the OVC for the SBC.

Schools like NMSU and Missouri State don't bring an automatic 2nd bid to the conference. NMSU is good, but they are not Memphis or Gonzaga good. Missouri State has not been to the NCAA men's basketball tournament since 1999, so while they are solid in basketball they are not a 2nd bid.

Based on Commissioner Benson's stated requirements of;
a) an all sport add
b) a twelfth football program for divisions and a championship game
c) a travel partner for Appalachian St
I made an effort to quantify the possibilities for the SBC. I have prepared the following data, for the three schools that I believe meet the stated criteria; Eastern Kentucky, James Madison, and Liberty.

Television DMA
EKU, 63
Liberty 67
JMU 178

Facilities
Football
EKU Roy Kidd Stadium 22,000
JMU Bridgeforth Stadium 25,000
LU 19,200

Basketball
EKU Paul S. McBrayer Arena Alumni Coliseum, 6,500 basketball
JMU Convocation Center 7612
LU The Vines Convocation Center 8,085 BASKETBALL

Enrollment
EKU ca 16,000
JMU ca 20,000
LU ca 13,000

Endowment
EKU $44.4 million
JMU $66.978 million
LU $58,646 million

Academics (admissions)
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
EKU
SAT Critical Reading: 430 / 555
SAT Math: 430 / 550
ACT Composite: 19 / 24
ACT English: 18 / 24
ACT Math: 17 / 24

JMU
Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
SAT Critical Reading: 520 / 620
SAT Math: 530 / 620
SAT Writing: 520 / 610
SAT Scores for public Virginia colleges
ACT Composite: 23 / 27

LU
not reported

Athletic budgets revenue/expenses
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/co...54955804/1
LU $19,437,572 $19,437,572
EKU $12,435,604 $12,435,604
JMU $30,957,078 $31,143,588

Distance to Boone, NC
EKU < 5hrs
JMU > 4hrs
LU <4hrs

JMU is at a disadvantage not being in a top 100 television market.
Facilities are adequate to excellent for all three.
Enrollments and endowments are similar enough, keeping in mind that JMU and EKU are publics, while Liberty is a private.
JMU easily wins the academics contest, but EKU is well within the SBC profile.
EKU has the lowest total athletic budget of the three, which could be cause for concern. However, the Georgia Southern budget is even smaller than EKU's. JMU's athletic budget is at high FBS levels now.
All three are geographically close enough to App St, but EKU more closely fits the SBC footprint as a whole

JMU and LU have great fan support in football. There is a question of recent fan support at EKU, however as recently as 2004, 22,700 people attended Roy Kidd to watch Eastern Kentucky vs Western Kentucky, so there is certainly potential.

EKU has the best quality basketball program of the three, which has been mentioned here as being as important.

I have not researched the non revenue sport profiles of any of the three.

I hope you guys find this useful.

...and we're back to only one school that can get 9 votes..and they dont want us

Add Mo State

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

I talked to a friend of mine in the Ga. Southern athletic administration today and asked him if we could expect a 12th team added soon. He said he had no indication of something about to happen. Tried to get him to talk about specific schools but he said he would not comment on that. Also said conference is being careful not to just add someone for adding sake.

So take that for what it is worth.

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

(03-17-2014 01:19 PM)panama Wrote:  ...and we're back to only one school that can get 9 votes..and they dont want us

Add Mo State

Correct. Missouri State #12

Then help UTA bring back football. #13

Then look for the best fit for #14.

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Worked for C-USA?

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Interesting. I always thought it was to get Utah State, Idaho, etc and make a western wing.

(03-17-2014 03:53 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Interesting. I always thought it was to get Utah State, Idaho, etc and make a western wing.

There were several phases in SBC expansion where North Texas could have left and probably taken ULL and ASU with them. Had that happened at any point...the SBC would have never existed the way it does now.

Strange thing is...the current SBC configurations looks nothing like it did back when it was first here. The league's look was forever changed the minute it decided to play FBS football.

(03-17-2014 04:03 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:53 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Interesting. I always thought it was to get Utah State, Idaho, etc and make a western wing.

There were several phases in SBC expansion where North Texas could have left and probably taken ULL and ASU with them. Had that happened at any point...the SBC would have never existed the way it does now.

Strange thing is...the current SBC configurations looks nothing like it did back when it was first here. The league's look was forever changed the minute it decided to play FBS football.

Quote:The Sun Belt Conference was founded on August 4, 1976 with the University of New Orleans, the University of South Alabama, Georgia State University, Jacksonville University, the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and the University of South Florida. Over the next ten years the conference would add Western Kentucky University, Old Dominion University, the University of Alabama at Birmingham, and Virginia Commonwealth University. New Orleans was forced out of the league in 1980 due to its small on-campus gymnasium that the Conference did not deem suitable for Conference competition. UNO competed as an independent before joining the newly formed American South Conference in 1987.
After the 1990-91 basketball season, all members of the Sun Belt, except Western Kentucky, South Alabama, and Jacksonville, departed for other conferences. The Sun Belt, including incoming member in the University of Arkansas at Little Rock, then merged with the American South Conference, made up of Arkansas State University, Louisiana Tech University, the University of Southwestern Louisiana (now the University of Louisiana at Lafayette), the University of Texas–Pan American, New Orleans (re-joined), Lamar University, and the University of Central Florida. Although the American South was the larger conference, the merged league retained the Sun Belt name. Central Florida left the league following the 1991-92 academic year. Lamar, Texas–Pan American, and Jacksonville departed at the end of the 1997-98 academic year. Florida International University joined the Sun Belt in 1998, and the University of Denver was added in 1999. Louisiana Tech departed after the 2000-01 academic year.
The conference did not sponsor football until 2001, when the league added former Big West Conference members New Mexico State University and the University of North Texas and former Ohio Valley Conference member (an FBS Independent on football) Middle Tennessee State University as full members (all 3 of them joined a year earlier for all sports in the 2000-01 school year) and added FBS Independent University of Louisiana at Monroe and Big West member University of Idaho as "football-only" members. These new members gave the Sun Belt seven football playing members in their first season, as Arkansas State and Louisiana-Lafayette were already full members which sponsored football. Another Big West school, Utah State University, was added as a "football-only" member in 2003, then departed in 2005 with Idaho and New Mexico State for the Western Athletic Conference (WAC).
In 2004, Troy University became a "football-only" member until the Trojans joined the conference in all sports, effectively in the 2005-06 academic year. In 2005, Florida Atlantic became a "football-only" member until the Owls joined the conference in all sports, effectively in the 2006-07 academic year. In 2006, Louisiana–Monroe joined the conference as an all-sports full member when the Warhawks left their former home, the Southland Conference.
Longtime Sun Belt member Western Kentucky joined the Sun Belt's football conference in 2009 after its Board of Regents voted to upgrade the school's football program to Division I FBS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Belt_Conference

I think the above is accurate. I enjoyed our stay in the SBC.

(03-17-2014 04:03 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:53 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Interesting. I always thought it was to get Utah State, Idaho, etc and make a western wing.

There were several phases in SBC expansion where North Texas could have left and probably taken ULL and ASU with them. Had that happened at any point...the SBC would have never existed the way it does now.

Strange thing is...the current SBC configurations looks nothing like it did back when it was first here. The league's look was forever changed the minute it decided to play FBS football.

When Denver was added, the Belt was what:

Arkansas State
UALR
Western Kentucky
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana
South Alabama
New Orleans
Jacksonville? or FIU?

Big West for football was North Texas, New Mexico State, Idaho, Utah State, Boise State and I think Nevada?. I just always figured the Sun Belt was going for the football route and Denver was to get another western school at the time.

(03-17-2014 03:45 PM)GaStPanthers Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 03:06 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:28 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(03-17-2014 01:24 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(03-16-2014 11:04 PM)ARSTATEFAN1986 Wrote:  We were stuck with Denver from day one...a school who should have never been allowed to join. But I was glad to see ULM join when they did, as well as Troy, Georgia State, Appalachian State, and Georgia Southern. I hate to see WKU leave, but MTSU, FAU and FIU aren't missed. I also hated to see North Texas leave, but I understood why. I hope that Arkansas State and Louisiana Lafayette stay together in the belt.

That was a Craig Thompson add.

Was that all done to smoke out the Big West at the time?

No it was part of the "we will never get enough teams to be a football league so let's become an urban basketball league" phase of development.

Worked for C-USA?

CUSA was created from the Old Metro and Great Midwest conference. Both of which were urban basketball centric leagues. I am not entirely sure CUSA's goal has ever been urban basketball as much of it was when the teams were in the original conferences.

In a way...all the urban basketball concept was make each school better...but not the league. Of the original CUSA that formed in 95...only UAB and USM have remained in the league the entire time. The League's perception never improved...the individual schools did.