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Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
UConn plays Notre Dame Tuesday night for the women's basketball championship game. I don't care much for women's sports, but I may actually watch the end of that game if it's close.

Connecticut
Notre Dame
Apr. 8, 8:30PM ESPN
04-07-2014 05:56 AM
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TerryD Online
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
I don't think ND has much of a chance in this game with its best player out with a torn ACL.

I hope that I am wrong. UConn would be a tough matchup even if ND had team leader Natalie Achonwa in the lineup.

This person thinks otherwise, I hope she is right:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/col...story.html
04-07-2014 06:30 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
I certainly support women's athletics and the opportunities they afford young ladies. I LOVE what Title IX has done for women's athletics in this country; and not just basketball but also softball, soccer, adventure sports, swimming and diving, track and field and a host of other sports as well. There is no doubt that on balance, Title IX has been very good for women's athletics in the United States.

That said, I just can't bring myself to watch any women's sport for any length of time or to care about them at all. I've tried but I just can't do it. I guess women's tennis would be the most watchable of them all but even that isn't very interesting to me.

Every time I watch a women's college basketball game for a brief period of time I am struck by just how the terrible quality of basketball is that is being played. For some reason, people seem to be afraid to say it out loud for fear of being labeled a sexist but it's undeniably true.

Also, I want to pass out when people claim that they like watching women's basketball because it is "more fundamentally sound" than the men's game. Uh, no it is not and it's not even close! In fact, it is significantly LESS fundamentally sound than the men's game, which is itself less fundamentally sound than it was 20-30 years ago.

When I watch women's basketball I see TONS of players with poor handles and egregious shooting form making all kinds of really bad decisions on and off the ball. The help D is okay and the floor spacing is usually solid. Everything else is just horrible and for some reason too many people seem to confuse less athletic for being more fundamentally sound.

I'd like to watch a game with those folks to try and understand what the hell they are talking about? We could talk about it after any number of unforced turnovers each team is committing.

I sincerely believe that my local high school boys basketball team - which finished around .500 in its own league and did not make the playoffs - would beat either UConn or Notre Dame were they to square off in a game.

My local HS team plays in Pennsylvania's second largest classification. I have NO DOUBTS AT ALL that the best teams in AAA (my high school's classification) and especially AAAA (PA's largest classification) would absolutely destroy both of those teams. It would be a complete embarrassment.

Please don't mistake my candor for being anti-women's athletics because that would be completely incorrect. Also, I am very pleased to see full arenas for their games. Finally, I must acknowledge that it is quite clear that the game is improving - especially structurally. However, it is just REALLY bad basketball right now and I'm shocked that so few people seem to be willing to admit as much for fear of being labeled a sexist or a hater or some other nasty term.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 09:46 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-07-2014 09:44 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
Title XII would be OK if football were excluded. Maybe football players will become employees and won't count in Title XII in the future?

Women's tennis = watchable
women's basketball = ok if there is nothing else on
women's volleyball = ok, but too sexy (IMO)*
most other women's sports = boring (to me)

* my wife played volleyball in high school; she wouldn't want me watching women's volleyball though.
04-07-2014 11:22 AM
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Ole Blue Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
I disagree with you on quality of play and level of athleticism. Actually, I remember a few years back MT had a women vs men game where the ladies annihilated the men's team - sure it was a friendly preseason scrimmage and that was when the ladies were 30+ wins and the men stunk, but still. It's possible. I'd put more faith in the women's basketball programs, just IMO.
04-07-2014 11:37 AM
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wildthing202 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 09:44 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Finally, I must acknowledge that it is quite clear that the game is improving - especially structurally. However, it is just REALLY bad basketball right now and I'm shocked that so few people seem to be willing to admit as much for fear of being labeled a sexist or a hater or some other nasty term.

Probably because not many people give enough of a s*** to bother posting about how women sports suck. Fun to play brutal to watch.
04-07-2014 11:41 AM
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TerryD Online
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
ND's woman's basketball team is undefeated and playing in the national championship game.

I am a big fan of ND football, men's basketball, baseball, hockey and lacrosse.

That said, I will likely be watching NCIS rather than the woman's basketball championship.
04-07-2014 11:47 AM
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orangefan Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 11:22 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Title XII would be OK if football were excluded. Maybe football players will become employees and won't count in Title XII in the future?

Women's tennis = watchable
women's basketball = ok if there is nothing else on
women's volleyball = ok, but too sexy (IMO)*
most other women's sports = boring (to me)

* my wife played volleyball in high school; she wouldn't want me watching women's volleyball though.

Don't forget Women's Soccer. The USWNT is terrific. Their Olympic and World Cup games with Japan and Canada were freaking wars and Alex Morgan is one of the most exciting players in sports, and not because she's cute (that's a bonus).



04-07-2014 11:49 AM
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CrazyPaco Online
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Post: #9
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 09:44 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I sincerely believe that my local high school boys basketball team - which finished around .500 in its own league and did not make the playoffs - would beat either UConn or Notre Dame were they to square off in a game.

I'm pretty sure they would not. I don't think you realize how good teams like UConn are. Could your hs team beat Pitt right now? yeah, probably, but not these top level teams.

Remember, all of these womens' teams bring in college men, typically the level former hs players not good enough to play in college (probably like your .500 hs team), to practice against. I guarantee that UConn and ND have better shooters, better guard play, quicker athletes, and are more physical than you expect. They're also way better coached. What they can't do is play above the rim, and obviously, they're not quite as strong. Probably some of it would be determined by how close the game is officiated.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 12:47 PM by CrazyPaco.)
04-07-2014 12:38 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
I know that those teams bring in college men to practice against. What I don't know is who wins those scrimmages? I would bet that more often than not it's the dudes.

I guess we can agree to disagree but I have tried to look at it with an objective eye and there's just no way the guards I saw playing for Stanford and UConn last night (I watched for about 10 minutes before again losing interest) would hold up against even an average HS boys basketball player. If he is in any sort of strength program, the HS boy would be WAY too strong for the college girl and she wouldn't be able to get to the spots on the floor she would need to get to for her to consistently score. Eventually they would just settle for perimeter shots and that is a recipe for disaster. There would be almost nothing in the lane and they would be dominated on the boards.

Now, maybe a truly special player like Maya Moore or Sheryl Swoopes or Chimique Holdsclaw in their primes might be able to get into the lane a bit more than most but even then that would be an immense struggle, IMHO.

Also, my local HS has a kid who is 6-8 or 6-9 and the kid has offers to play D1 hoops and D1 baseball. He's pretty good but he's nothing extraordinary. Still, again he would be WAY too strong for UConn's forwards and center and he would annihilate the Huskies in the low post. It would be like facing Brittany Griner if she had actual athleticism instead of just being able to kinda/sorta move for a freakishly tall woman.

UConn would have no choice but to collapse down on the ball but even then the HS boys team would have easy 10-12 foot looks all game long. Also, UConn's low post folks would all have to hack the hell out of the kid to have any chance. That would lead to foul trouble and over time, the combination of my local HS boys team getting all of those easy looks and UConn having to work hard for all of its looks, that would wear down the Huskies, IMHO.

Who knows, maybe I am underrating them? I hope not and I don't think so but maybe I am? I will say this much, they are all more athletic than my old arse. I just think it is a very low level of basketball and it is pretty much unwatchable. It is fundamentally unsound and, comparatively speaking, very unathletic as well.

That said, I wish the fans of both UConn and Notre Dame all the luck in the world tomorrow night. I certainly won't be watching but many others will so congratulations on a remarkable season to date and good luck tomorrow evening.

My pick is UConn but that is based almost entirely on the fact that either them or Tennessee seems to win the national championship just about every year.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 01:54 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-07-2014 01:37 PM
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IceJus10 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
The dudes get spanked regularly... anyone watch the National 3-point and Slam Contest? The 3-point shot winner by a MILE was a girl. She drained those threes from all over with ease.
04-07-2014 01:45 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 01:45 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  The dudes get spanked regularly... anyone watch the National 3-point and Slam Contest? The 3-point shot winner by a MILE was a girl. She drained those threes from all over with ease.

A lot of men can hit open 3's, too. The difference in D1 players and the rest of us is a) can you guard a good shooter, and b) can you get your shot off while being guarded.
04-07-2014 01:52 PM
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CrazyPaco Online
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 01:37 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I know that those teams bring in college men to practice against. What I don't know is who wins those scrimmages? I would bet that more often than not it's the dudes.

I guess we can agree to disagree but I have tried to look at it with an objective eye and there's just no way the guards I saw playing for Stanford and UConn last night (I watched for about 10 minutes before again losing interest) would hold up against even an average HS boys basketball player. If he is in any sort of strength program, the HS boy would be WAY too strong for the college girl and she wouldn't be able to get to the spots on the floor she would need to get to for her to consistently score. Eventually they would just settle for perimeter shots and that is a recipe for disaster. There would be almost nothing in the lane and they would be dominated on the boards.

Now, maybe a truly special player like Maya Moore or Sheryl Swoopes or Chimique Holdsclaw in their primes might be able to get into the lane a bit more than most but even then that would be an immense struggle, IMHO.

Also, my local HS has a kid who is 6-8 or 6-9 and the kid has offers to play D1 hoops and D1 baseball. He's pretty good but he's nothing extraordinary. Still, again he would be WAY too strong for UConn's forwards and center and he would annihilate the Huskies in the low post. It would be like facing Brittany Griner if she had actual athleticism instead of just being able to kinda/sorta move for a freakishly tall woman.

UConn would have no choice but to collapse down on the ball but even then the HS boys team would have easy 10-12 foot looks all game long. Also, UConn's low post folks would all have to hack the hell out of the kid to have any chance. That would lead to foul trouble and over time, the combination of my local HS boys team getting all of those easy looks and UConn having to work hard for all of its looks, that would wear down the Huskies, IMHO.

Who knows, maybe I am underrating them? I hope not and I don't think so but maybe I am? I will say this much, they are all more athletic than my old arse. I just think it is a very low level of basketball and it is pretty much unwatchable. It is fundamentally unsound and, comparatively speaking, very unathletic as well.

That said, I wish the fans of both UConn and Notre Dame all the luck in the world tomorrow night. I certainly won't be watching but many others will so congratulations on a remarkable season to date and good luck tomorrow evening.

My pick is UConn but that is based almost entirely on the fact that either them or Tennessee seems to win the national championship just about every year.

Those elite women's players you are talking about, in their primes, would have no trouble against typical high school boys. I'm not talking about boys going to D1 programs, but the vast majority of the rest of them. The ones you typically see in PA.

I sometimes filled in on scrimmages with Pitt's women's team in the 90s, which was not a very good program, and was a manager on the men's team, and played many games with many mens players that were D1 and worked both men's and women's basketball camps. Now, myself, I probably could have played DII somewhere. You know other managers I played with daily ended up as walk-ons when Williard took over. Athletically, I was 6'2" but I could dunk, two handed, taking only one step; could do 180s, and could dunk two handed (couldn't palm the ball) taking off from the dotted circle inside the foul line. I wasn't a great shooter or ball handler, but I could shut down Jason Maile defensively. What I couldn't do, worth a damn, was preventing Carol Morton, a 2nd team All-Big East player in the pre-UConn era, from blowing the hell by me and scoring. She was as quick as Jerry McCoulough. She made me look like a fool if I had to guard her. I could shut down Joanna Huemrich, a first team All-Big East player before the UConn era, because she just wasn't strong enough inside and I could out jump her. The point guard of my high school team that started future NBAer Danny Forsten at forward, a future SEC starting quarterback at shooting guard, and an all-conference D2 player at center, and went to the AAAA state championship game was not as good of a point guard as Carol Morton. Could UConn have beaten that team, no. Could they have beaten other boys teams, absolutely.

Now obviously, what kind of high school basketball team you are talking about makes the difference. A typical AAA PIAA .500 boys basketball team in Western PA, IMO, has absolutely no shot at beating UConn's women if officials blow the whistle. IMO, people really underestimate how good women at that level, the UConn level, are...how athletic they are, how well coached they are, etc.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 02:48 PM by CrazyPaco.)
04-07-2014 02:29 PM
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Post: #14
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 01:45 PM)IceJus10 Wrote:  The dudes get spanked regularly... anyone watch the National 3-point and Slam Contest? The 3-point shot winner by a MILE was a girl. She drained those threes from all over with ease.

I wonder what school was she from.......?04-cheers

FlossY out...04-wine
04-07-2014 02:46 PM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
I'll take your word for it, Paco.

All I know is that I was just a so-so HS basketball player. I was my team's three - a good shooter, okay handle and a smart and committed, if slow footed, defender. I think I was your typical WPIAL Quad A small forward.

I averaged about 12 PPG in my senior year and most of those points came at the charity stripe as I was my team's best FT shooter. My team would usually try to get me the ball at the end of close games if we had the lead. I would say that I was my team's third best player.

I'm 6-4 and now weigh more than I am willing to admit. However, at the time I was 6-4/200 or so.

My backup in HS went to Penn State as a student where two of his best friends were McKeesport's Swin Cash as well as Jess Strom from Steel Valley. I met them many times and they were really nice girls. Also, they all LOATHED Penn State's coach, Rene Portland. I always thought it was weird how much they hated their coach given how successful they all were at the time.

I never played with them or anything like that but my buddy (backup) told me that he used to play against Swin all the time and - according to him at least - he dominated her. Once, when we were hanging out, I asked her about it and if what he told me was true? She said something along the lines of, "He's good, I have to give him props. I beat him more than he lets on but he's pretty good."

It was something to that effect.

Now, maybe she was just being extremely gracious? Maybe he was lying? Maybe he improved a lot from HS through college? Maybe that's not a good example because it is one-on-one versus a team game? I don't know the answer to any of those questions.

What I do know is that he was just a so-so HS player - he played a lot but did not start - and according to him and the girl herself, he usually got the best of a girl who would later go on to play in the WNBA and the Olympics.

That has always colored my view on that because I know I was better than my buddy and I also know that I wasn't all that good. If he could legitimately hang with Swin Cash then I know I could too. As I said though, maybe she was just being a good sport or pulling my leg? Who knows?
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 04:04 PM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-07-2014 04:03 PM
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CrazyPaco Online
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Post: #16
RE: Women's NCAA Finals TUE Nite
(04-07-2014 04:03 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I'll take your word for it, Paco.

All I know is that I was just a so-so HS basketball player. I was my team's three - a good shooter, okay handle and a smart and committed, if slow footed, defender. I think I was your typical WPIAL Quad A small forward.

I averaged about 12 PPG in my senior year and most of those points came at the charity stripe as I was my team's best FT shooter. My team would usually try to get me the ball at the end of close games if we had the lead. I would say that I was my team's third best player.

I'm 6-4 and now weigh more than I am willing to admit. However, at the time I was 6-4/200 or so.

My backup in HS went to Penn State as a student where two of his best friends were McKeesport's Swin Cash as well as Jess Strom from Steel Valley. I met them many times and they were really nice girls. Also, they all LOATHED Penn State's coach, Rene Portland. I always thought it was weird how much they hated their coach given how successful they all were at the time.

I never played with them or anything like that but my buddy (backup) told me that he used to play against Swin all the time and - according to him at least - he dominated her. Once, when we were hanging out, I asked her about it and if what he told me was true? She said something along the lines of, "He's good, I have to give him props. I beat him more than he lets on but he's pretty good."

It was something to that effect.

Now, maybe she was just being extremely gracious? Maybe he was lying? Maybe he improved a lot from HS through college? Maybe that's not a good example because it is one-on-one versus a team game? I don't know the answer to any of those questions.

What I do know is that he was just a so-so HS player - he played a lot but did not start - and according to him and the girl herself, he usually got the best of a girl who would later go on to play in the WNBA and the Olympics.

That has always colored my view on that because I know I was better than my buddy and I also know that I wasn't all that good. If he could legitimately hang with Swin Cash then I know I could too. As I said though, maybe she was just being a good sport or pulling my leg? Who knows?

Swin Cash went to UConn, not PSU.

Obviously, boys would have an advantage in the post. The guards are better than you think. Also, keep in mind you are talking about a hypothetical of college women vs high school boys, and women in college have a couple more years of physical development and training. And yes, it is a team game which is different than a two equally tall, age-matched players are playing one-on-one, one with an obvious natural advantage in physical strength, is different than a team game.

We'll never know. It's a difference of opinion, but my money would be on the elite college teams like UConn against a typical Pennsylvania .500 hs team.
(This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 04:57 PM by CrazyPaco.)
04-07-2014 04:45 PM
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