It happened w/ a wrestling match

http://www.centredaily.com/2013/12/08/39...helps.html

So, please tell me again why it's so important to have baseball for the MAC? It's time northern teams recognize that some sports are more suited to their clime than others. (UWisc did). Whether that's hockey, wrestling, lacrosse (it's not lacrosse, btw) or something else...doesn't matter.

Time to make good decisions. Time to make innovative decisions.

Kent State making the CWS will probably keep us from dropping it any time soon. A lot of programs have made/are making investments into their programs, so we don't want that money to go to waste too. Also, if we want to attract a more southern school like Missouri State, it'll help if we have baseball so they don't have to be an affiliate member elsewhere. But your points make sense, the MAC isn't exactly in an ideal location to sponsor baseball.

I agree baseball for northern schools is way too difficult, unless it gets moved to the summer.

As for wrestling, the MAC has put an emphasis on it lately. They added some good schools and already have good programs in Kent and CMU.

NIU certainly has the potential to be good. They were ranked quite a few times in the late 90s early 2000s. Illinois is one of the top 5 wrestling states as well.

As for the attendance record by Penn State, I'm not that impressed. I was at the record Iowa set in 2008, and there was a lot of standing room only people that circled the whole building. That record changes every few years when the top teams meet. If not for Iowa having graduation and a women's bball game before the meet, I wouldn't have been surprised if this year's Iowa-Penn State meet broke the record.

Hockey is way too expensive to have a legit conference on for the MAC. Plus, aren't there only 3 schools that have it? I could be wrong.

Wrestling gets hurt because title 9. Not to mention, the BigTen takes all the Midwest wrestling talent.

(12-23-2013 09:48 AM)axeme Wrote:  

So far this season I've seen Wisc v Mich St, Penn St v Pitt, Indiana v Manchester (Div III I believe), currently watching Penn St v ZSU, and have Penn St v Iowa on DVR. (Purportedly, Buffalo v Iowa was broadcast, but it wasn't in the correct time slot if it was). That's on TV. I also attended the NWCA pre-season exhibition.

I've watched zero college basketball so far. I'm assuming they still play those games, b/c I see scores.

Yeah, I don't think they televise college basketball anymore because of all the wrestling that's on.

(12-23-2013 09:57 AM)HuskieJWN Wrote:  I agree baseball for northern schools is way too difficult, unless it gets moved to the summer.

As for wrestling, the MAC has put an emphasis on it lately. They added some good schools and already have good programs in Kent and CMU.

NIU certainly has the potential to be good. They were ranked quite a few times in the late 90s early 2000s. Illinois is one of the top 5 wrestling states as well.

As for the attendance record by Penn State, I'm not that impressed. I was at the record Iowa set in 2008, and there was a lot of standing room only people that circled the whole building. That record changes every few years when the top teams meet. If not for Iowa having graduation and a women's bball game before the meet, I wouldn't have been surprised if this year's Iowa-Penn State meet broke the record.

Hockey is way too expensive to have a legit conference on for the MAC. Plus, aren't there only 3 schools that have it? I could be wrong.

Wrestling gets hurt because title 9. Not to mention, the BigTen takes all the Midwest wrestling talent.

PA has so many schools with wrestling teams, it's hard to recruit from them. B1G certainly gets the cream of the crop of midwest wrestling talent, but I see Ohio wrestlers for VPI. And there is talent available from Oklahoma, Iowa and New York.

Nevertheless, I think the MAC can do better in wrestling, earn more revenue, and get good press.

(12-23-2013 10:02 AM)axeme Wrote:  Yeah, I don't think they televise college basketball anymore because of all the wrestling that's on.

Your sarcasm is obvious b/c we all want more wrestling aired, but I am personally delighted that the market realizes that people want choices beyond tiddlywinks basketball.

(12-23-2013 10:07 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-23-2013 09:57 AM)HuskieJWN Wrote:  I agree baseball for northern schools is way too difficult, unless it gets moved to the summer.

As for wrestling, the MAC has put an emphasis on it lately. They added some good schools and already have good programs in Kent and CMU.

NIU certainly has the potential to be good. They were ranked quite a few times in the late 90s early 2000s. Illinois is one of the top 5 wrestling states as well.

As for the attendance record by Penn State, I'm not that impressed. I was at the record Iowa set in 2008, and there was a lot of standing room only people that circled the whole building. That record changes every few years when the top teams meet. If not for Iowa having graduation and a women's bball game before the meet, I wouldn't have been surprised if this year's Iowa-Penn State meet broke the record.

Hockey is way too expensive to have a legit conference on for the MAC. Plus, aren't there only 3 schools that have it? I could be wrong.

Wrestling gets hurt because title 9. Not to mention, the BigTen takes all the Midwest wrestling talent.

PA has so many schools with wrestling teams, it's hard to recruit from them. B1G certainly gets the cream of the crop of midwest wrestling talent, but I see Ohio wrestlers for VPI. And there is talent available from Oklahoma, Iowa and New York.

Nevertheless, I think the MAC can do better in wrestling, earn more revenue, and get good press.

It certainly could get better. Right now, it's fluttering in the upper tier of D1 wrestling. The BigTen is clearly the cream of the crop. The EIWA is next, then I'd say MAC is probably right behind it.

More schools in the MAC need to wrestle. The PA college wrestling scene is saturated with powerful Penn State, really good Edinboro and Lehigh, and Pitt and others aren't slouches.

Iowa is close to saturated. They obviously have a tradition rich state, but their top guys go to Iowa, Iowa State, or UNI. The overall depth isn't as strong as NY, Ohio, PA, or IL. But their top dogs are among the best. Oklahoma is the same as Iowa, IMO.

If more MAC schools had wrestling, I think it would be better. It's just such a tough sport to recruit for. States like IL, PA, Indiana, Michigan, etc. have multiple solid D1 programs so it's hard to make an impact. Then the east coast is laced with awesome schools with darn good programs.

If the MAC can get teams like NIU and Buffalo more consistent with CMU and Kent, they will be good. They need the "actual" MAC programs to rise to the Mizzou and UNI standards of consistency and then it will reap more rewards.

Hockey!

How the hell did find 15,000+ people interested enough to pay for tickets and show up to see 2 sweaty men in unitards trying to pin each other down?

Hmmm. Might say a thing or two about the folks of back woods, Pennsylvania..............as an after thought, was there a banjo vs guitar competition just before the match? You know, like a duel while playing Dixie.

(12-23-2013 09:57 AM)HuskieJWN Wrote:  As for the attendance record by Penn State, I'm not that impressed. I was at the record Iowa set in 2008, and there was a lot of standing room only people that circled the whole building.

Not impressed because the all-time attendance record isn't impressive? Or not impressed because they didn't have more people standing in the standing room only section?

FWIW, this meet was held at the Bryce Jordan Center (capacity 16000) as opposed to the usual venue Rec Hall (capacity 6846).

(12-23-2013 09:31 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  It happened w/ a wrestling match

http://www.centredaily.com/2013/12/08/39...helps.html

So, please tell me again why it's so important to have baseball for the MAC? It's time northern teams recognize that some sports are more suited to their clime than others. (UWisc did). Whether that's hockey, wrestling, lacrosse (it's not lacrosse, btw) or something else...doesn't matter.

Time to make good decisions. Time to make innovative decisions.

What kind of attendance does wrestling get in the MAC? I ask because I can find no information. I can find baseball fine though.

For example, Kent at Akron at Canal Park drew 2200 last year. That was the high, but a typical Kent home game drew 300+ last year.

I don't have a problem with wrestling; it's a great sport, but I like baseball more and I really don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. You can try to be good at both.

(12-24-2013 01:41 AM)bopol Wrote:  I don't have a problem with wrestling; it's a great sport, but I like baseball more and I really don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. You can try to be good at both.

(12-24-2013 01:41 AM)bopol Wrote:  I don't have a problem with wrestling; it's a great sport, but I like baseball more and I really don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. You can try to be good at both.

You can try, but recognize there is a cost there. And that cost is high for northern teams.

Miami fans complain that their hockey team has hurt fball and basketball. I'm skeptical of that, b/c all three can generate positive revenue, but I would say that baseball hurts most of the MAC teams.

In the end, baseball costs a lot, and generates little. There is growing evidence that wrestling can actually generate a fair amount, and its costs are pretty low.

(12-23-2013 10:09 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-23-2013 10:02 AM)axeme Wrote:  Yeah, I don't think they televise college basketball anymore because of all the wrestling that's on.

Your sarcasm is obvious b/c we all want more wrestling aired, but I am personally delighted that the market realizes that people want choices beyond tiddlywinks basketball.

I love basketball like I love oxygen but wrestling is a great spectator sport. In fact, aside from golf (no offense axeme) and cross country which are hard to follow (in the literal sense), I think most sports are pretty spectator friendly. I'm surprised that football and basketball have risen to the level of popularity they enjoy at the expense of other sports. I used to get chills when the crowd would start chanting"Wojo, Wojo" back in the day at UT. The Field House drew some pretty good crowds for wrestling back then. ESPN was better when they played the best of Aussie rules football instead of Duke versus Pan American or whatever.

Wrestling sucks.

(12-24-2013 08:59 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 01:41 AM)bopol Wrote:  I don't have a problem with wrestling; it's a great sport, but I like baseball more and I really don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. You can try to be good at both.

You can try, but recognize there is a cost there. And that cost is high for northern teams.

Miami fans complain that their hockey team has hurt fball and basketball. I'm skeptical of that, b/c all three can generate positive revenue, but I would say that baseball hurts most of the MAC teams.

In the end, baseball costs a lot, and generates little. There is growing evidence that wrestling can actually generate a fair amount, and its costs are pretty low.

Do you have anything on what the programs cost and what they generate?

(12-24-2013 11:56 AM)bopol Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 08:59 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-24-2013 01:41 AM)bopol Wrote:  I don't have a problem with wrestling; it's a great sport, but I like baseball more and I really don't see why it has to be an either/or situation. You can try to be good at both.

You can try, but recognize there is a cost there. And that cost is high for northern teams.

Miami fans complain that their hockey team has hurt fball and basketball. I'm skeptical of that, b/c all three can generate positive revenue, but I would say that baseball hurts most of the MAC teams.

In the end, baseball costs a lot, and generates little. There is growing evidence that wrestling can actually generate a fair amount, and its costs are pretty low.

Do you have anything on what the programs cost and what they generate?

Just estimates.

Baseball allows for 1.8 more scholarships than wrestling, and have an average team size of 34. Wrestling has avg team size of 32.

As an example:

UMinn is spending $7.5M to re-do Siebert field, capacity of 1400.

The Gophers host wrestling in the 5,700-seat Sports Pavilion in Minneapolis. When large crowds are expected, meets are held in Williams Arena, capacity 14,321. This often happens for matches against archrivals Iowa and Oklahoma State

UMinn baseball has 3 paid coaches and a "Director of baseball operations"
UMinn wrestling has 3 paid coaches (from what I can see)

UMinn baseball will spend 2/16/2014- 3/19/2014 Playing in the south, including AZ, FL, SC, LA, CA, then B1G schedule

UMinn wrestling has tourneys in ND, IA and TN, w/ away matches in OR and OK, then B1G schedule

Comparison of attendance at events
http://www.collegebaseballlineup.com/int...ce-mar-25/
http://awn.theopenmat.com/2013/04/iowa-a...ttendance/

I really do not get it.
Why do you think that most of us would rather go see images like these over Baseball?