(12-08-2013 09:05 PM)axeme Wrote:  There are 70 teams in bowl games out of 125. You really don't have to be all that good to get into the last 10 or so bowls. You earn good bowls. A bunch of mediocre teams will play in the others. Being a "bowl team" doesn't mean what it used to.

Yeah, and the way you 'deserve' a bowl is that a bowl committee would invite you.

It's gotten crazy, because you see the seats are empty, the schools aren't making money, few fans will travel to the lesser bowls, and teams that need a win against a FCS school to get to 6-6 are getting bids. I think it's television money and publicity that makes anyone want to do it.

But on the other hand, you see schools saying they're not making money, but when it comes time for bowl offers, the 7-5 and 6-6 schools are nervous they won't get a bid.

I hope it's going to be different with the new bowl arrangements the MAC made going forward. It seems like the non-BCS conferences are taking more control of how the bowls are run.

(12-08-2013 09:18 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 09:07 PM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  If Toledo had taken care of business against Akron (a team we beat 43-3) and had finished 8-4, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I'm sorry--and what were your scores against Buffalo & BG? And how'd you do in those cross-over games against Northern Illinois & Ball State?

And how does that change what he said?

No one in the MAC is saying this makes sense, but that doesn't mean Toledo didn't do it to themselves. Stop holding a grudge against all the wrong people.

(12-09-2013 07:41 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  According to Toledo's math, they also won the MAC this year. Not only do they count division titles as championships, but they also count coulda-woulda-shoulda division titles. Hard to believe Toledo would be left out after winning the MAC this year. Maybe they can go to a make believe bowl and claim victory as well? Go to wal-mart and get a little trophy for their trophy case? Probably what they'll do.

.

Your cute little rant about Toledo and hypothetical scenarios was comic relief this morning. Seriously though, Toledo probably did not deserve a bowl, and still will have enough little trophies in their case regardless.
Good luck to Miami in 2014. Like I said in another post, " A strong Miami is good for the MAC ".

(12-09-2013 01:53 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  I think they saw two mediocre football teams and decided to flip a coin. Maybe they decided to market this game as Ohio vs Carolina and will make elderly fans think they bought tickets for the Buckeyes and either South Carolina or North Carolina.....They likely sell a few hundred more because they can put "Ohio in ads" Elderly Buckeye fans.....rush to buy tickets then will start thinking their vision is going when they see Ohio State's uniforms are a little green at kickoff and that Brutus is looking a bit strange.

Tongue in cheek or not, your explanation is probably as good as any. Interestingly enough a number of UT fans voiced the opinion after the Akron game that UT did not "deserve" a bowl game; however, the sentiment among many now is apparently is that Ohio "deserves" one even less----I think most UT folks consider Ohio's bowl selection as more of an insult than injury because they (myself included) believe UT is the "better" team on the field---but that is totally irrelevant to the current bowl selection discussion.

All this bickering about who is the "better" team is predicated on the false premise the bowl games are suppose to "reward deserving teams" for a having a good season. Of course that is completely and absolutely false because these days the ONLY thing bowls care about is how to get the best possible TV ratings and how sell the most tickets, not about which may be the "better" team on the field or who had the better season.

The real irony is that at some level virtually everyone realizes that with the advent of the big TV $$$$ college football has been totally corrupted and is no longer about good sportsmanship or collegiate athletes competing on the field of play, rather it is entirely about big $$$$$ and "marketing one's brand"------yet the debate about who is more "deserving" (meaning the better team on the field) continues.

(12-09-2013 09:08 AM)T-Town Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 01:53 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  I think they saw two mediocre football teams and decided to flip a coin. Maybe they decided to market this game as Ohio vs Carolina and will make elderly fans think they bought tickets for the Buckeyes and either South Carolina or North Carolina.....They likely sell a few hundred more because they can put "Ohio in ads" Elderly Buckeye fans.....rush to buy tickets then will start thinking their vision is going when they see Ohio State's uniforms are a little green at kickoff and that Brutus is looking a bit strange.

Tongue in cheek or not, your explanation is probably as good as any. Interestingly enough a number of UT fans voiced the opinion after the Akron game that UT did not "deserve" a bowl game; however, the sentiment among many now is apparently is that Ohio "deserves" one even less----I think most UT folks consider Ohio's bowl selection as more of an insult than injury because they (myself included) believe UT is the "better" team on the field---but that is totally irrelevant to the current bowl selection discussion.

All this bickering about who is the "better" team is predicated on the false premise the bowl games are suppose to "reward deserving teams" for a having a good season. Of course that is completely and absolutely false

Too bad. Takes all the lustre away from the games. In the end, the bowls will fade b/c they made themselves meaningless.

I'll be pulling for the Bobcats in a big way (and bobcatjohn, Brutus wouldn't look strange so much as improved). UT had one thing to do and two shots at it. Lost them both and got no bowl. Not sure why MOY is whining about Toledo fans- we've got ten "we suck and don't deserve a bowl" threads going. It IS odd how the conference played out but that's why they play games.

and regardless of who goes, its going to be the lowest rated and lowest attended bowl of the 35 bowls. Monday afternoon at 2pm, 2 days before Xmas in a town that doesn't support their bowl? Those looking to mock Ohio and decry their selection based on perceived amount of fans who travel will have plenty to mock.

It's a right of passage for every team in the MAC to pass through Boise. Glad to see UB in there but no way in hell I can attend.

FWIW, poster on Miami board who is from Tampa claims he heard that OU has a large alumni base in Tampa and the bowl specifically wanted OU over Toledo because of that and it had absolutely nothing to do with the MAC office.

(12-09-2013 11:18 AM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  FWIW, poster on Miami board who is from Tampa claims he heard that OU has a large alumni base in Tampa and the bowl specifically wanted OU over Toledo because of that and it had absolutely nothing to do with the MAC office.

Interesting, but my wife's cousin from Cleveland has a plumber who heard rumors that the MAC front office steered the bowl toward Ohio because they were still steaming about Toledo basketball coach Todd Kowalczyk's actions at the end of the basketball season last year. But keep in mind, just like your Miami poster from Tampa, this is entirely a rumor without any basis in fact whatsoever.

For those not familiar the Kowalczyk incident: last year UT was suspended from any post season play including the MAC championship tournament because of poor team grades and failure of players to graduate that occured under Kowalczyk's predecessor, a man whose name is no longer mentioned in Toledo circles. To everyone's surprise Kowalczyk managed a small miracle and about a week before the end of the regular season last year it became apparent that although Toledo was out of the MAC tournament, they might very well tie Western Michigan for the best conference record in the West. At this point the MAC announced for the very first time that: "Oh, by the way, we forgot to mention that UT not only is banned from the tournament but they also will not be allowed to compete for a west title." At this point Coach K went ballistic and publicly invited UT fans to make the short road trip to Eastern and join him and the team for their last game of the season because "We are going to be playing for a piece of the West Championship and if we win, we are going to hang a banner" (with the unspoken implication of "regardless of what the MAC front office says"). The MAC office apparently had no public comment but I suspect they were steamed and I also suspect that the UT Administration was mortified as well but were also very hesitant to publicly criticize the best basketball coach they have had in the past 30 years since Bobby Nichols stepped down----especially given that the absolute total disaster that was Coach K's predecessor was totally their responsibility and is still very fresh in everyone's memory.

Anyway several hundred UT fans made the trip and sure enough Coach Kowalczyk pulled out a come from behind win. Although nobody has hung a banner in Savage (at least yet), the players did evidently did get rings to commemorate a share of the West Championship and I suspect the MAC front office has not forgotten about this.

I just think it is funny that Toledo gives out rings for a split "division" title. There are 6 teams in that division and they tied 1. So that ring is for being better than 4 teams in the entire nation and coming no where close to winning the overall MAC or MAC tournament.

Did all the football players get a participation trophy after the Akron game or a ring for beating BG and winning the I-75 Division?

Funny stuff.. Congrats!

(12-09-2013 02:43 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I just think it is funny that Toledo gives out rings for a split "division" title. There are 6 teams in that division and they tied 1. So that ring is for being better than 4 teams in the entire nation and coming no where close to winning the overall MAC or MAC tournament.

Considering the depth to which the program had sunk, I think they deserved any recognition that came their way as a reward for not just surviving that mess that they were in no way responsible for creating but also for achieving what they were able to do both on the court and in the classroom to bring the program back from the abyss.

(12-09-2013 02:43 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  Did all the football players get a participation trophy after the Akron game or a ring for beating BG and winning the I-75 Division?

Well, they did get to keep the goofy "Peace Pipe" trophy for another year by beating BG. But don't be silly, of course there was no award for losing to Akron; recognition is supposed to be for achievement, not failure. Think about it; did your Miami football players get a participation trophy for going 0-12? I doubt it.

(12-09-2013 11:13 AM)zrb2 Wrote:  It's a right of passage for every team in the MAC to pass through Boise. Glad to see UB in there but no way in hell I can attend.

Although Boise is a far trip and expensive to get to, it is totally worth it. Great area with great scenery.

(12-09-2013 02:43 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I just think it is funny that Toledo gives out rings for a split "division" title. There are 6 teams in that division and they tied 1. So that ring is for being better than 4 teams in the entire nation and coming no where close to winning the overall MAC or MAC tournament.

Did all the football players get a participation trophy after the Akron game or a ring for beating BG and winning the I-75 Division?

Funny stuff.. Congrats!

Here's some more funny stuff: Miami couldn't even get a participation trophy since they didn't show up for any of their twelve football games. Toledo basketball came nowhere close to winning the MAC. Miami football came nowhere close to winning a GAME! In fact, if you want funny stuff I could stop right after " Miami football" or "Miami basketball". Funny stuff indeed.

(12-08-2013 10:39 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  My only thought is whether the bowl had a strong reason to want Ohio. If the Bowl said Ohio or nobody and stuck to it then Ohio may have been the conference's best choice.

But its not the conference's choice in the end. Its the bowl that makes the offer, not the conference that "sends" a team. The MAC seems to have been pro-active to try to make negotiations in pursuit of getting more teams placed in bowls, but in the end its still the bowl's final decision.

AFAIU, that's part of the point of the new arrangements, but they don't start until next year.

It's pretty clear that MOY has something against Toledo. Wasn't he the one making a big stink about the video last year?

(12-09-2013 02:43 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I just think it is funny that Toledo gives out rings for a split "division" title. There are 6 teams in that division and they tied 1. So that ring is for being better than 4 teams in the entire nation and coming no where close to winning the overall MAC or MAC tournament.

Did all the football players get a participation trophy after the Akron game or a ring for beating BG and winning the I-75 Division?

Funny stuff.. Congrats!

I know you like funny stuff and this one will knock you out: I just found out that Miami University actually hangs BANNERS in their arena celebrating their basketball team winning the MAC East division. They beat five other teams for the honor. FIVE. In the whole nation! Congrats, funny stuff. :

Let's face it, Toledo's football video was stupid. Hoops rings...not so much since Miami and other schools do the same.

(12-09-2013 06:39 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(12-09-2013 02:43 PM)Miami (Oh) Yeah ! Wrote:  I just think it is funny that Toledo gives out rings for a split "division" title. There are 6 teams in that division and they tied 1. So that ring is for being better than 4 teams in the entire nation and coming no where close to winning the overall MAC or MAC tournament.

Did all the football players get a participation trophy after the Akron game or a ring for beating BG and winning the I-75 Division?

Funny stuff.. Congrats!

Here's some more funny stuff: Miami couldn't even get a participation trophy since they didn't show up for any of their twelve football games. Toledo basketball came nowhere close to winning the MAC. Miami football came nowhere close to winning a GAME! In fact, if you want funny stuff I could stop right after " Miami football" or "Miami basketball". Funny stuff indeed.

LOL - good stuff

(12-09-2013 06:52 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(12-08-2013 10:39 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  My only thought is whether the bowl had a strong reason to want Ohio. If the Bowl said Ohio or nobody and stuck to it then Ohio may have been the conference's best choice.

But its not the conference's choice in the end. Its the bowl that makes the offer, not the conference that "sends" a team. The MAC seems to have been pro-active to try to make negotiations in pursuit of getting more teams placed in bowls, but in the end its still the bowl's final decision.

AFAIU, that's part of the point of the new arrangements, but they don't start until next year.

Yes but as we know there are negotiations going on in the back scenes. Bowls trade teams and conferences. If the bowl told the MAC office what teams they would take then that can affect what they can do with other bowls who also have their own stipulations. End result after the wheeling and dealing is that the conference tries to get the most for itself as it can and the bowl chooses somebody in this case Ohio.

Ball State doesn't hang banners for division championships.