(10-22-2013 10:41 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 09:36 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If NMSU want to keep the WAC alive, sponsoring men's soccer is important (men's soccer and baseball are the two key sports).

I believe movement at Missouri St kept interest low by the Sun Belt. Mo St is building out its football stadium to 21,000.

http://www.missouristatebears.com/genrel/101813aaa.html

The WAC has soccer schools coming out it's ears. It's a mess, way too many teams. And no issue meeting the minimum 6 full members that play soccer either.

Plenty of baseball schools too. Actually, every school plays baseball except UMKC.

The WAC has a butload of problems, but neither of them are a shortage of baseball and soccer schools.

But I believe one of those sports must consist of core members, not affiliates.

(10-22-2013 10:41 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 09:36 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If NMSU want to keep the WAC alive, sponsoring men's soccer is important (men's soccer and baseball are the two key sports).

I believe movement at Missouri St kept interest low by the Sun Belt. Mo St is building out its football stadium to 21,000.

http://www.missouristatebears.com/genrel/101813aaa.html

The WAC has soccer schools coming out it's ears. It's a mess, way too many teams. And no issue meeting the minimum 6 full members that play soccer either.

Plenty of baseball schools too. Actually, every school plays baseball except UMKC.

The WAC has a butload of problems, but neither of them are a shortage of baseball and soccer schools.

maybe it's referring to the MWAC affiliates (UNLV, San Jose, Air Force) and Houston Baptist? I think HBU will keep their program around as long as they have a home.

The Big Sky is getting too Big - especially for a conference with limited revenue. They have one more football-only slot - being held for Idaho IMO. I don't think NMSU could get in, even if we wanted to (and apparently we have talked to the Sky within the past few months).

(10-22-2013 10:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 10:41 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 09:36 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If NMSU want to keep the WAC alive, sponsoring men's soccer is important (men's soccer and baseball are the two key sports).

I believe movement at Missouri St kept interest low by the Sun Belt. Mo St is building out its football stadium to 21,000.

http://www.missouristatebears.com/genrel/101813aaa.html

The WAC has soccer schools coming out it's ears. It's a mess, way too many teams. And no issue meeting the minimum 6 full members that play soccer either.

Plenty of baseball schools too. Actually, every school plays baseball except UMKC.

The WAC has a butload of problems, but neither of them are a shortage of baseball and soccer schools.

But I believe one of those sports must consist of core members, not affiliates.

Yeah - not sure how things work with affiliates - but 4 of the 8 Men's soccer schools are affiliates - which is probably not all that stable. NMSU adding the sport would certainly help in the event that one or more of the affiliates left.

(10-22-2013 10:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 10:41 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 09:36 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If NMSU want to keep the WAC alive, sponsoring men's soccer is important (men's soccer and baseball are the two key sports).

I believe movement at Missouri St kept interest low by the Sun Belt. Mo St is building out its football stadium to 21,000.

http://www.missouristatebears.com/genrel/101813aaa.html

The WAC has soccer schools coming out it's ears. It's a mess, way too many teams. And no issue meeting the minimum 6 full members that play soccer either.

Plenty of baseball schools too. Actually, every school plays baseball except UMKC.

The WAC has a butload of problems, but neither of them are a shortage of baseball and soccer schools.

But I believe one of those sports must consist of core members, not affiliates.

I thought that, after the two-year waiver is over, the WAC will need 6 full-time WAC members to play both of those sports, i.e. without counting affiliate members.

Right now, baseball has 7 and men's soccer has 4. Of course they can always ask the NCAA for another waiver if they need it. The NCAA isn't going to force the WAC to disband if their only rule violation is only having 4 full-time members playing men's soccer.

Football counted last year, so the WAC is in Y 1 of probation.

Grand Canyon doesn't count : transition.

Thought UTPA was adding it.
NMSU likely adding it.
Needss to add Omaha and W Ill.
To go with KC, Seattle, Bakersfield

the WAC will be fine on the men's soccer front. Chicago State and Utah Valley start it up next year, UTPA in 2015. That's seven full-time members along with the MW affiliates and Houston Baptist giving that sport 11 teams overall.

(10-22-2013 11:00 PM)NuMexAg Wrote:  Yeah - not sure how things work with affiliates - but 4 of the 8 Men's soccer schools are affiliates - which is probably not all that stable. NMSU adding the sport would certainly help in the event that one or more of the affiliates left.

once you have at least 4 full-time members who sponsor it, you can use affiliates to reach the autobid requirements (which is 6 for most sports). Chicago State, UTPA and Utah Valley starting it up within the next two years makes the affiliate issue a moot point since the conference will have at least 7 full members. Houston Baptist likely stays as an affiliate.

Air Force, San Jose State and UNLV are probably not going anywhere unless the Mountain West decides to sponsor men's soccer themselves. The MW has five members who play: the three WAC affiliates, San Diego State (Pac-12) and New Mexico (C-USA).

(10-22-2013 10:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 07:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  NMSU doesn't have much choice.

The Big Sky isn't going to invite them without football.
The Valley has apparently said no thanks.
By all accounts, they are at least three votes short of full Sun Belt membership

The Sky invited Idaho without football. I think NMSU would just dominate the Sky in basketball and other sports, and the travel would bite them.

Think the WAC and Sky are working to dismantle the Summit (Sky places its baseball teams in WAC).

But if the Sky could gain the WAC FBS status, they might rethink.

Idaho is a different critter than NMSU. The Vandals are close to several Big Sky teams (in Western US terms) and had rivalries with a number of those teams. NMSU is far removed from anyone.

Remember before the WAC started really falling apart with the loss of Boise, the two closest WAC teams to NMSU were USU and Louisiana Tech and neither were a quick bus ride away.

(10-23-2013 12:37 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(10-22-2013 11:00 PM)NuMexAg Wrote:  Yeah - not sure how things work with affiliates - but 4 of the 8 Men's soccer schools are affiliates - which is probably not all that stable. NMSU adding the sport would certainly help in the event that one or more of the affiliates left.

once you have at least 4 full-time members who sponsor it, you can use affiliates to reach the autobid requirements (which is 6 for most sports). Chicago State, UTPA and Utah Valley starting it up within the next two years makes the affiliate issue a moot point since the conference will have at least 7 full members. Houston Baptist likely stays as an affiliate.

Air Force, San Jose State and UNLV are probably not going anywhere unless the Mountain West decides to sponsor men's soccer themselves. The MW has five members who play: the three WAC affiliates, San Diego State (Pac-12) and New Mexico (C-USA).

Yah, they made all the new schools add soccer.

So you'd have Seattle, CSUB, UVU, GCU, CSU, UMKC and UTPA. That's 7 full members with soccer. Don't get me wrong, I'd like NMSU to add soccer, it's just surprising to me.

Baseball is......

SU, CSUB, UVU, GCU, UTPA, Chicago State, and NMSU. That's 7 full members with baseball.

One advantage the WAC had is that Hurd was basically creating a new conference from scratch, with schools that had no other choices (except for UMKC). So he was able to dictate that all the schools play baseball and soccer. That should help the WAC a lot, because they can survive with less members than most conferences because the schools teams sports are almost perfectly aligned.

As for men's soccer, I don't think it will be a revenue sport any time soon for anyone but a couple of schools that develop a soccer culture.

What men's soccer can be in a reasonable amount of time is a sport like women's basketball or baseball or softball. A few places will make a small profit but other schools will be happy to have it because it will lose fewer of the dollars invested than other sports.

I think a move to the spring would probably help as well.

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  As for men's soccer, I don't think it will be a revenue sport any time soon for anyone but a couple of schools that develop a soccer culture.

What men's soccer can be in a reasonable amount of time is a sport like women's basketball or baseball or softball. A few places will make a small profit but other schools will be happy to have it because it will lose fewer of the dollars invested than other sports.

I think a move to the spring would probably help as well.

I would prefer college soccer to be in the spring too. I follow it some, but I watch more college football than is healthy, and there just isn't much time left over for soccer. But if it was in the spring I'd follow it more closely.

Don't see it happening though, because the AAA's that all play soccer don't want to compete with their own baseball teams for attendance.

(10-23-2013 02:44 AM)CPslograd Wrote:  

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  As for men's soccer, I don't think it will be a revenue sport any time soon for anyone but a couple of schools that develop a soccer culture.

What men's soccer can be in a reasonable amount of time is a sport like women's basketball or baseball or softball. A few places will make a small profit but other schools will be happy to have it because it will lose fewer of the dollars invested than other sports.

I think a move to the spring would probably help as well.

I would prefer college soccer to be in the spring too. I follow it some, but I watch more college football than is healthy, and there just isn't much time left over for soccer. But if it was in the spring I'd follow it more closely.

Don't see it happening though, because the AAA's that all play soccer don't want to compete with their own baseball teams for attendance.

Probably true but I follow MLS because I don't care for baseball so competing with baseball makes perfect sense to me. Or make it a 2 semester sport and take a winter break from Thanksgiving to March 1 :)

UMKC will probably add baseball at some point - their AD made some comments about possibly adding sports at the press conference about joining the WAC.

(10-22-2013 10:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 07:36 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  NMSU doesn't have much choice.

The Big Sky isn't going to invite them without football.
The Valley has apparently said no thanks.
By all accounts, they are at least three votes short of full Sun Belt membership

The Sky invited Idaho without football. I think NMSU would just dominate the Sky in basketball and other sports, and the travel would bite them.

Think the WAC and Sky are working to dismantle the Summit (Sky places its baseball teams in WAC).

But if the Sky could gain the WAC FBS status, they might rethink.

NMSU would be a top 3 basketball team, yes, but would not dominate. They would not dominate other sports, by any stretch.

Big Sky invited Idaho because they were a former member, smack-dab in the footprint, and big rivals to a number of current teams.

NMSU has none of that. The only team in the SKY now with any history with NMSU is NAU, who used to be in the Border Conference with ASU, UA, UNM, (and a few years later Texas Tech and UTEP), but NAU left that conference in the early 50's NAU and NMSU still rank in each other's top 10 opponents played.

(10-23-2013 01:40 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I think a move to the spring would probably help as well.

For Men's soccer, sure.