(10-21-2013 01:41 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

That CMU is way safer than us?

maybe

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I know what it means to me: I like living dangerously. ;-)

I have an undergrad from Wayne State ('lived on campus' two years - should have had my life insurance cancelled).

Did grad work at EMU.

Was a guest student one summer at MSU.

I'm surprised by UofM. UofM is less safe than Wayne State????

BTW, these are all public universities. I'd like to see how they rate Detroit-Mercy, Marygrove, etc. schools which are in areas where were considered very good 40 years ago but less so now...

(10-21-2013 01:58 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I know what it means to me: I like living dangerously. ;-)

I have an undergrad from Wayne State ('lived on campus' two years - should have had my life insurance cancelled).

Did grad work at EMU.

Was a guest student one summer at MSU.

I'm surprised by UofM. UofM is less safe than Wayne State????

BTW, these are all public universities. I'd like to see how they rate Detroit-Mercy, Marygrove, etc. schools which are in areas where were considered very good 40 years ago but less so now...

U-D is in a very scary area. Nightlife must not be too good there.

THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS !!!!!!

http://www.easternecho.com/article/2013/...er-weekend

So in the past weekend we have had a murder, couple rapes and now this... JESUS

(10-21-2013 01:58 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I know what it means to me: I like living dangerously. ;-)

I have an undergrad from Wayne State ('lived on campus' two years - should have had my life insurance cancelled).

Did grad work at EMU.

Was a guest student one summer at MSU.

I'm surprised by UofM. UofM is less safe than Wayne State????

BTW, these are all public universities. I'd like to see how they rate Detroit-Mercy, Marygrove, etc. schools which are in areas where were considered very good 40 years ago but less so now...

The Beast only covered public institutions. But as mentioned below, I would not want to be spending any time at night aroung the UDM campus.

This is mostly do to budget cuts in Ypsilanti they have had reduced public safety by almost 50% over the last 5 years. Fire, EMS and police.

In an earlier post, I indicated that because of the Internet, 24 x 7 cable news, expanded local news (which was 30 minutes at 6 p.m and another 30 minutes at 11 p.m. when I was growing up and now might be 4 - 6 hours / day) knowledge of crime has increased exponentially.

And, of course, on campus' like EMU, there are e-mail alert systems which make sure everyone knows of violence crime.

We feel less safe because of more transparent reporting.

BUT... look at the murder/manslaughter data. Those are considered the most reliable because they are not under-reported. Presumably all or almost all such deaths are reported to law enforcement.

Anyway, within MICHIGAN, the population has increased about 10% in the last 25 years. (I'll try to find Washtenaw County data).

Murder/manslaughter has decreased from 853 to 689. In the late 80s/early 90s it was over 1K.

Murder/manslaughter was way down before the economy crashed in late 2008. In 2008 it was 554, a SIGNIFICANT DROP in 20 years.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports.

************

Estimated crime in Michigan Year Population National or state crime
Violent crime
Violent crime total Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter Forcible rape Robbery Aggravated assault

1977 9,129,000 53,381 853 3,555 23,905 25,068
1978 9,189,000 53,040 972 3,636 20,153 28,279
1979 9,208,000 56,558 834 4,100 20,218 31,406
1980 9,228,128 59,014 940 4,304 22,519 31,251
1981 9,201,000 59,058 861 4,366 23,688 30,143
1982 9,109,000 59,806 827 4,246 24,699 30,034
1983 9,069,000 64,993 910 5,085 25,873 33,125
1984 9,075,000 68,979 879 5,880 27,832 34,388
1985 9,088,000 66,714 1,018 6,140 26,572 32,984
1986 9,145,000 73,517 1,032 6,167 27,550 38,768
1987 9,200,000 71,772 1,124 6,184 25,442 39,022
1988 9,300,000 68,980 1,009 6,462 22,424 39,085
1989 9,273,000 65,760 993 6,624 20,616 37,527
1990 9,295,297 73,468 971 7,209 21,752 43,536
1991 9,368,000 75,232 1,009 7,372 22,790 44,061
1992 9,437,000 72,672 938 7,550 20,902 43,282
1993 9,478,000 75,021 933 6,740 22,601 44,747
1994 9,496,000 72,751 927 6,720 21,733 43,371
1995 9,549,000 65,680 808 5,917 17,885 41,070
1996 9,594,000 60,951 722 5,466 16,907 37,856
1997 9,774,000 57,663 759 5,070 14,934 36,900
1998 9,817,000 60,947 721 4,946 15,293 39,987
1999 9,863,775 56,709 695 4,849 14,103 37,062
2000 9,938,444 55,159 669 5,025 13,712 35,753
2001 10,006,266 55,424 672 5,264 12,937 36,551
2002 10,043,221 54,306 678 5,364 11,847 36,417
2003 10,082,364 51,550 612 5,470 11,254 34,214
2004 10,104,206 49,737 643 5,482 11,336 32,276
2005 10,100,833 55,936 629 5,199 13,348 36,760
2006 10,095,643 56,981 721 5,347 14,229 36,684
2007 10,071,822 53,765 661 4,592 13,365 35,147
2008 10,003,422 51,512 554 4,507 13,246 33,205
2009 9,969,727 49,825 623 4,524 12,427 32,251
2010 9,877,143 48,693 580 4,733 11,522 31,858
2011 9,876,801 43,731 617 4,344 10,263 28,507
2012 9,883,360 44,922 689 4,589 10,434 29,210

(10-21-2013 02:26 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  This is mostly do to budget cuts in Ypsilanti they have had reduced public safety by almost 50% over the last 5 years. Fire, EMS and police.

Yep.

One of the problems with the financial decline of cities, like Ypsilanti, has been the reduction in numbers of police officers, etc.

This is a BIG problem in a lot of cities.

I won't mention Detroit where 911 response time is like regular non-emergency response times time a factor of say 2 or 3.

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I’m sorry,but there is no way UM is LESS safe than Wayne State or EMU. Wayne State is in Detroit and having spent much time on both UM and EMU’s campuses I can say that I have felt far safer in Ann Arbor than in the Ypsi area around campus.

BTW, I used the FBI's UCR (Uniform Crime Report) tool to get data for Ypsilanti PD, 1985 - 2012 (all available years).

Bottom line: if there has been a huge surge in crime the data does NOT support that assertion.

As I indicated above, Murder/manslaughter are considered HIGHLY reliable data because they are so easily reported to PDs.

The data field are year, # of months (12), population, # of offenses, violent crime total, etc.

Murder/manslaughter is the 5th column.

If one fits a (linear) regression line through the murder/manslaughter numbers I'd bet there is NO trend OR maybe a SLIGHT DECREASE over time.

There were 2 murder/manslaughters in 2012, but one was an EMU coed so it was big news.

One could say that 2009 - 2012 were very safe years in Ypsilanti. The numbers seemed to have dropped significantly!!

And for 1985 - 2012 the numbers across the board are down dramatically, seemingly dropped by 50% !!

*************

Crime reported by Ypsilanti Police Dept, Michigan Year Months reporting Population
coverage Number of offenses reported
Violent crime
Violent crime total Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter Forcible rape Robbery Aggravated assault

1985 12 23,775 390 1 28 86 275
1986 12 23,476 569 5 50 115 399
1987 12 23,243 406 8 23 113 262
1988 12 23,541 354 4 25 118 207
1989 12 23,424 463 2 35 120 306
1990 12 24,846 394 2 25 119 248
1991 12 25,040 392 3 45 85 259
1992 12 25,224 364 2 26 93 243
1993 12 24,515 4 110 269
1994 12 24,561 397 2 31 115 249
1995 12 23,738 270 2 17 77 174
1996 12 23,849 410 3 27 138 242
1997 12 24,296 366 3 19 114 230
1998 12 23,443 338 0 25 95 218
1999 12 23,032 250 1 18 61 170
2000 12 22,362 192 3 16 52 121
2001 12 22,480 233 4 19 70 140
2002 12 22,614 187 1 23 45 118
2003 12 22,883 197 0 25 55 117
2004 12 22,565 209 1 22 59 127
2005 12 22,232 247 5 18 64 160
2006 12 21,778 279 4 14 77 184
2007 12 21,672 332 1 22 78 231
2008 12 21,766 283 3 13 74 193
2009 12 21,369 210 0 23 49 138
2010 12 19,435 216 0 15 54 147
2011 12 19,420 162 1 17 39 105
2012 12 19,610 171 2 19 41 109
Notes: When data are unavailable, the cells are blank or the year is not presented.
Variations in population coverage and reporting practices may cause differences in reporting from year to year. (See definitions).
MSA and non-MSA county populations are not available.
Crime rates are not available for agencies that report data for less than 12 months of a year.

Michigan agencies 1993 - The data collection methodology for the offense of forcible rape used by the State Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program does not comply with national UCR Program guidelines. Consequently, their figures for forcible rape and violent crime (of which forcible rape is part) are not included in this tool.
Sources: FBI, Uniform Crime Reports as prepared by the National Archive of Criminal Justice Data

Dear emu steve,

What exactly are you trying to prove by those numbers ? I am not trying to start a fight or anything but I am a little confused. Are we supposed to feel safe because crime stats have been decreasing ?

I do agree with you that because of media we do tend to think that there is more crime than actually happens. But it is not like media is lying to us, they are just reporting the facts. If there was no crime, they wouldn't have to report it.

I believe that students do feel safe on campus in general. And by campus I mean the academic buildings and the areas between them. But crime is a big issue in Ypsilanti.

Personally, I think the mixing of the "locals" and students is the issue here. It is widely known that Ypsi is a economically poor area for numerous reasons. Unfortunately in these areas crimes such as robberies and theft are the most common. Students pose an easy target for these people. It is a vicious cycle with political, institutional and racial roots and I do not think we should point fingers and say "they are to blame" because it is not all the way true.

Now what I think can be done:

Prices for living in the dorms need be lowered so students do not feel so easily tempted to go living in places around the campus that are dirt cheap and attract unpleasant crowd.

Raising admission standards. Some people might be angered by this, but I will say that in my years I have seen people admitted in our school that for one they should never be allowed in an academic setting due to their hood mentality and hood behavior and two, were lacking basic skills such as reading and writing and I won't even go on describing their comprehension of the material presented to them by the professors.

We do those two things and I think we might be surprised by the results.

(10-21-2013 03:02 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I’m sorry,but there is no way UM is LESS safe than Wayne State or EMU. Wayne State is in Detroit and having spent much time on both UM and EMU’s campuses I can say that I have felt far safer in Ann Arbor than in the Ypsi area around campus.

I'm sorry, but most studies I have seen placed U of M in the top twenty over the last few years. I quoted this study because it covered nearly 500 campuses and therefor the Michigan schools. You have a right to deny the study.

(10-21-2013 03:47 PM)realistEagle Wrote:  Dear emu steve,

What exactly are you trying to prove by those numbers ? I am not trying to start a fight or anything but I am a little confused. Are we supposed to feel safe because crime stats have been decreasing ?

I do agree with you that because of media we do tend to think that there is more crime than actually happens. But it is not like media is lying to us, they are just reporting the facts. If there was no crime, they wouldn't have to report it.

I believe that students do feel safe on campus in general. And by campus I mean the academic buildings and the areas between them. But crime is a big issue in Ypsilanti.

Personally, I think the mixing of the "locals" and students is the issue here. It is widely known that Ypsi is a economically poor area for numerous reasons. Unfortunately in these areas crimes such as robberies and theft are the most common. Students pose an easy target for these people. It is a vicious cycle with political, institutional and racial roots and I do not think we should point fingers and say "they are to blame" because it is not all the way true.

Now what I think can be done:

Prices for living in the dorms need be lowered so students do not feel so easily tempted to go living in places around the campus that are dirt cheap and attract unpleasant crowd.

Raising admission standards. Some people might be angered by this, but I will say that in my years I have seen people admitted in our school that for one they should never be allowed in an academic setting due to their hood mentality and hood behavior and two, were lacking basic skills such as reading and writing and I won't even go on describing their comprehension of the material presented to them by the professors.

We do those two things and I think we might be surprised by the results.

RealistEagle:

Couple of points:

1). These data are for 27 years. That is a good length of time to draw conclusions from data. Guess I'm trying to say the problems today are probably no different than when I to EMU or many other posters. One or two posters definitely disagree with me. One said he wouldn't send his son to EMU.

2). As I footnoted, murder/manslaughter data are highly reliable because they are easy to ascertain, e.g., a body with the presences of gun shot wounds, choke marks, physical bruises, etc. etc. As such they are a reliable indicator of crime. When crime is at an epidemic level, e.g., Chicago now, or Washington D.C. 20 years ago with the crack cocaine epidemic the numbers REALLY show in homicides.

That said, I'm not sure I can make the claim that EMU is less safe now than say 1987. You might be right, but the data does not support it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I asked a distinguished retired faculty member who has lived, and very involved in the community in Ypsilanti say 40 years if crime had risen dramatically (it was in response to a post of yours or DirtyBird earlier this year about conditions around EMU) and he indicated nothing unusual as far as he knows.

That's all I know.

Folks can draw their own conclusion.

In the last what 12 months we've had the murder of a co-ed and a football player yet no indications that murders are up in Ypsilanti. Just that the victims are 'close to home' (i.e., EMU students).

And I can tell folks, that NO ONE got e-mail alerts 20 - 25 years ago about rapes, robberies, etc. on campus because there was NO commercial e-mail for the general population.

(10-21-2013 02:08 PM)realistEagle Wrote:  THIS IS GETTING RIDICULOUS !!!!!!

http://www.easternecho.com/article/2013/...er-weekend

So in the past weekend we have had a murder, couple rapes and now this... JESUS

No doubt there is a problem and no doubt, it has really hurt recruiting. If EMU was located in say, Dexter, Chelsea, or Saline, I am sure we would be much more competitive athletically.

(10-21-2013 04:39 PM)emu steve Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 03:47 PM)realistEagle Wrote:  Dear emu steve,

What exactly are you trying to prove by those numbers ? I am not trying to start a fight or anything but I am a little confused. Are we supposed to feel safe because crime stats have been decreasing ?

I do agree with you that because of media we do tend to think that there is more crime than actually happens. But it is not like media is lying to us, they are just reporting the facts. If there was no crime, they wouldn't have to report it.

I believe that students do feel safe on campus in general. And by campus I mean the academic buildings and the areas between them. But crime is a big issue in Ypsilanti.

Personally, I think the mixing of the "locals" and students is the issue here. It is widely known that Ypsi is a economically poor area for numerous reasons. Unfortunately in these areas crimes such as robberies and theft are the most common. Students pose an easy target for these people. It is a vicious cycle with political, institutional and racial roots and I do not think we should point fingers and say "they are to blame" because it is not all the way true.

Now what I think can be done:

Prices for living in the dorms need be lowered so students do not feel so easily tempted to go living in places around the campus that are dirt cheap and attract unpleasant crowd.

Raising admission standards. Some people might be angered by this, but I will say that in my years I have seen people admitted in our school that for one they should never be allowed in an academic setting due to their hood mentality and hood behavior and two, were lacking basic skills such as reading and writing and I won't even go on describing their comprehension of the material presented to them by the professors.

We do those two things and I think we might be surprised by the results.

RealistEagle:

Couple of points:

1). These data are for 27 years. That is a good length of time to draw conclusions from data. Guess I'm trying to say the problems today are probably no different than when I to EMU or many other posters. One or two posters definitely disagree with me. One said he wouldn't send his son to EMU.

2). As I footnoted, murder/manslaughter data are highly reliable because they are easy to ascertain, e.g., a body with the presences of gun shot wounds, choke marks, physical bruises, etc. etc. As such they are a reliable indicator of crime. When crime is at an epidemic level, e.g., Chicago now, or Washington D.C. 20 years ago with the crack cocaine epidemic the numbers REALLY show in homicides.

That said, I'm not sure I can make the claim that EMU is less safe now than say 1987. You might be right, but the data does not support it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I asked a distinguished retired faculty member who has lived, and very involved in the community in Ypsilanti say 40 years if crime had risen dramatically (it was in response to a post of yours or DirtyBird earlier this year about conditions around EMU) and he indicated nothing unusual as far as he knows.

That's all I know.

Folks can draw their own conclusion.

In the last what 12 months we've had the murder of a co-ed and a football player yet no indications that murders are up in Ypsilanti. Just that the victims are 'close to home' (i.e., EMU students).

And I can tell folks, that NO ONE got e-mail alerts 20 - 25 years ago about rapes, robberies, etc. on campus because there was NO commercial e-mail for the general population.

I just have a problem with the "it has always been happening" mentality. In my opinion if people think that this is nothing new, than it is even a larger issue in my mind.

You also need to remember that a lot of these crimes go unreported. I can't even tell you how many times I have heard of people getting their houses robbed into, sexually assaulted or robbed at gunpoint and did not report it. Good buddy got his TV stolen out of his house, another good buddy got everything stolen out of his place. Shoot, even I was once taking a nap in my dorm room and caught a person looking into my room and checking if its open. It is an issue trust me.

This is the way the far right want it : smaller government and more self-reliance and self-sufficiency it's not the government responsibility to protect you from anything, Darwinism.

(10-21-2013 05:00 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  This is the way the far right want it : smaller government and more self-reliance and self-sufficiency it's not the government responsibility to protect you from anything, Darwinism.

I have never heard the "far right"advocate high crime and leaving citizens defenseless against criminals. I suppose you would prefer a police state with armed military on every corner.

Sometime, Carl, you just amaze me with your inane and clueless statements.

(10-21-2013 05:00 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  This is the way the far right want it : smaller government and more self-reliance and self-sufficiency it's not the government responsibility to protect you from anything, Darwinism.

So you prefer a Nazi or Communist state with a massive law enforcement apparatus? Gotcha.

In such a situation the criminals are in government, not on the streets. Crime is still happening.

(10-21-2013 03:51 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 03:02 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 01:33 PM)Huron 61 Wrote:  There are hundreds of surveys that can be pointed in any direction the initiator chooses. I think we all know that. But since there are so many quoting this survey and that I thought I'd throw in an interesting one from "The Daily Beast."

This a ranking of dangerous levels of campuses in the U.S.A. It includes murders, rapes, auto theft etc.,etc, over the last three years

22- University of Michigan
31- Wayne State University
101- Eastern Michigan University
133- Michigan State University
154-Northern Michigan University
161-Western Michigan University
343- Saginaw Valley State University
382-Michigan Tech University
385- Central Michigan University
391- Oakland University
394- Ferris State University
453- Grand Valley State University

Can anyone tell me what this means?

I’m sorry,but there is no way UM is LESS safe than Wayne State or EMU. Wayne State is in Detroit and having spent much time on both UM and EMU’s campuses I can say that I have felt far safer in Ann Arbor than in the Ypsi area around campus.

I'm sorry, but most studies I have seen placed U of M in the top twenty over the last few years. I quoted this study because it covered nearly 500 campuses and therefor the Michigan schools. You have a right to deny the study.

Detroit is as crime-ridden a city as you’ll find. Yet, somehow Wayne State has LESS crime than UM, which is located in a city that doesn’t have much violent crime at all. Yeah, I have to question those studies. It just doesn’t jibe with my personal experience. I’ve walked around Ann Arbor at all times of the day and not once I have been harassed or see a crime. Not once in 20-some off years of living in the area. I have seen a door kicked in when I lived in Ypsilanti.

(10-21-2013 05:49 PM)wolverineeagle Wrote:  

(10-21-2013 05:00 PM)emussuperfan Wrote:  This is the way the far right want it : smaller government and more self-reliance and self-sufficiency it's not the government responsibility to protect you from anything, Darwinism.

So you prefer a Nazi or Communist state with a massive law enforcement apparatus? Gotcha.

In such a situation the criminals are in government, not on the streets. Crime is still happening.

Nope but with large population comes large government wether you like it or not all you can is try and control it as much as possible. State and local governments are no better and in most cases even worse. Small is equal to weak and a weak government can not protect its citizens. All a weak government leads to tyranny and oppression.