(10-10-2013 12:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 08:42 PM)Bleeds_Purple Wrote:  THERE WILL BE NO D4!!!!!

Yes there will but it will include all FBS as a separate division.

If D4 happens, it won't include all FBS schools. D4 would reduce the number to diminish the number of hands reaching into the pot. They've been stating that as one of their objectives since the beginning. What makes anyone think they'd change their mind at this time?

(10-10-2013 01:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 12:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 08:42 PM)Bleeds_Purple Wrote:  THERE WILL BE NO D4!!!!!

Yes there will but it will include all FBS as a separate division.

If D4 happens, it won't include all FBS schools. D4 would reduce the number to diminish the number of hands reaching into the pot. They've been stating that as one of their objectives since the beginning. What makes anyone think they'd change their mind at this time?

if the division is only 64 schools, there won't be enough schools to support a separate championship for all the other sports. That's why it will include all FBS programs....or those FBS programs who choose to be in that division as there are some schools who are FBS that won't want to be part of that division. In the proposal, it was stated they were not certain if FBS was a full division if there would be enough schools for support the championships for all the other sports. However, I believe even if those FBS programs who don't want to go along there will be others that can support that FBS division coming forth and once actually calculated, will see there are enough schools in FBS that can support a separate championship on their own without other FCS or Non-football conferences. Some sports will cross over as they are an association championship.

(10-10-2013 02:36 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 01:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 12:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 08:42 PM)Bleeds_Purple Wrote:  THERE WILL BE NO D4!!!!!

Yes there will but it will include all FBS as a separate division.

If D4 happens, it won't include all FBS schools. D4 would reduce the number to diminish the number of hands reaching into the pot. They've been stating that as one of their objectives since the beginning. What makes anyone think they'd change their mind at this time?

if the division is only 64 schools, there won't be enough schools to support a separate championship for all the other sports. That's why it will include all FBS programs....or those FBS programs who choose to be in that division as there are some schools who are FBS that won't want to be part of that division. In the proposal, it was stated they were not certain if FBS was a full division if there would be enough schools for support the championships for all the other sports. However, I believe even if those FBS programs who don't want to go along there will be others that can support that FBS division coming forth and once actually calculated, will see there are enough schools in FBS that can support a separate championship on their own without other FCS or Non-football conferences. Some sports will cross over as they are an association championship.

I seriously doubt all FBS schools will be considered, even though I know that's not what most people here want to believe...

Does anyone think Appalachian State is going to be selected for D4? I don't. I'm pretty sure none of the other recent upgraded schools will either. If any Go5 conferences are considered, the AAC and MWC will be at the top of the list. Whether anyone else makes the list remains to be seen...

Give me Fresno over UNLV but I like it

Don't like the idea of a split. Don't like the concept of byes in a tournament or playoff.

(10-10-2013 06:38 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  Give me Fresno over UNLV but I like it

Both are in.

CSU - Fresno = California State University - Fresno = Fresno State

I would leave out the service academies. I would add new mexico hawaii and colorado state.

I voted "for it" simply because I would want to be in whatever the top division of football would or will be. The teams are not bad, either.

I think that if such a D4-type scenario does wind up forming you will still see the NCAA controlling it. Schools will be given a choice: spend more and move up or spend the same or less and move down. It will be that simple...

I predict that most schools in the AAC and the MWC will elect to move into D4, perhaps with a few of the MAC schools (Northern Illinois, Central Michigan, Miami-OH and Ohio come to mind) along with CUSA schools like Marshall, Old Dominion, North Texas and Southern Miss. Middle Tennessee and WKU would also probably come along for the ride along with Louisiana from the Sunbelt.

What I'm most curious about is how these teams will organize themselves. I also have to wonder if the powers-that-be will allow for independence; will ND, the academies and BYU be allowed to participate without joining a conference for all sports?

I also wonder if the D4 playoff structure will require that participants participate in a conference title game in order to earn a birth. Right now, the B12 is the only conference that does not have a title game so they may have to expand. If so, I would expect that BYU and either UCF, USF, Cinci or UConn will be getting calls within the next few years.

The ACC would also have to expand since ND would now be a full member; enter Cinci or UConn.

In the end, what we are likely to see is a 6th D4 football conference forming, one that consist of select MWC and AAC schools, with a few CUSA and MAC schools thrown in for good measure.

Like the thread's creator, I also think that this conference would consist of about 20 teams.

(07-23-2013 07:22 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  The Premise: The "P5" split away from the rest pf FBS to form a "D4". Schools are mandated to pay a $3000 per athletic student per year stipend (not just fball, but all student athletes). The best (overall, not just athletic) teams from the MAC, American, and MWC to be included in the highest division of college football. Revenue across the board would increase from renegotiated tv deals, better postseason access, and a smaller amount of schools that benefit from the postseason pool, i.e. 6 conferences instead of 10, 85 teams instead of 125+.

How it pertains to us: the so-called "P5" need an additional conference to avoid massive lawsuit, and to diversify the CFB product, in both OOC and post season.

How teams are chosen: Current athletic budget, Regional history, and current investment level

Total FBS "D4": 14 ACC, 14 SEC, 10 B12, 14 B1G, 12 Pac, 20 American, 1 ND = 85 teams

Football Postseason:
• "P5": 12 team playoff; 6 Champions (ACC, American, B12, B1G, SEC, Pac12) + 6 at large. Top 4 seeds get first round bye
• American Championship Playoffs: 4 pods of 5 teams, winner of each pods is "Pod Champion", meets oppositely seeded "Pod Champion" in Semifinal of 4 teams. Winner of playoff advances to CFP slot.
  

The Team Alignment:

American North
Link



Selection between UMass OR New York (both are land grant universities, New York is AAU I believe)

Army FB Only

American South

Link



Navy FB Only

American Midwest

Link



AFA Football Only

American West

Link



Conference regular season:

• 4 Intra-Pod games, 6 Inter-Pod games = 10 total conference games
• Cycle home-away each year.
• Play every single team in the conference home and away every 6 years, not including Playoffs
  

Conference Playoff

• Best overall record from each pod meet at Semifinal Neutral Site (4 teams, 2 games), For example Boise State, Cinci, Houston, ECU
• Winners meet for CCG, with winner getting the Playoff Spot
  
  Basketball:
  
  • There are 17 All sport schools in this conference.
  • Any one team will play 4 nearest regional members home and away each year
  • Play every other team once
  • 20 Total conference games including such BBall powers as UNLV, SDSU, BYU, Memphis, Cinci, Houston, UConn, and Temple, among other teams ready to invest.
    
  
  
  Pros:
  • Nationwide Conference, with regional strengths
  • Larger Revenue
  • Larger Exposure
  • NOT being relegated to FCS 2.0
  • Legitimate top 3 Basketball conference
  • Unique, attention-grabbing post season play.
  • Sole "Cinderella" status
    
  Cons:
  • More difficulty scheduling favorable OOC matchups? i.e. Home and home's vs. 1 and dones, 2 for 1's etc
    

So I will play along. I don't understand the east coast obsession with the academies. They are barely competitive in football and not competitive in other sports. They more than any other schools belong in the lower division with the Ivy's the Horizon League, Patriot League and other conferences the emphasize academics over athletics.

You need to dump all three and move Memphis to the South where they belong. Add New Mexico (which is quite good in most sports and has a huge revenue stream) and Colorado State to the central. I don't know the east so you decide who goes there.

Any D-4 proposal that doesn't include the Big East is a farce. It ruins basketball as a revenue-producing sport because their tournament will lose all credibility.

The problem is that several Big East programs have D-1AA football programs. (which demonstrates why D-4 won't result in a breakaway from the NCAA).

For good measure, you should also throw in the top 2/3 of the A-10, Wichita and Gonzaga. While you're at it, half the MWC and Sienna also are in a similar position as the MWC/AAC are for football: popular enough to be a big draw but not popular enough to compete for national titles.

If you're talking about including top MAC programs... Buffalo is below Ohio and Marshall on the totem poll. Buffalo is also below NIU & Toledo and is equal to Akron & Miami (remember that Miami would have gone to a BCS bowl in 2003 if they current rules were in place then). UMass is below Buffalo right now, and while they *may* have potential due to their flagship status, they're the clear 3rd program in a barren wasteland of a recruiting environment. Too many pinko-lefties afraid of their kid getting hurt to allow high school football to thrive there.

If D4 happens, I'm pretty sure the Big East won't be a part. One of the things D4 will want is all schools to be playing all sports at the same level. Since the Big East doesn't support FBS football, they won't qualify...

If you bring in the Big East, then you open the door for every conference that supports some kind of football, and that's not the desired effect. D4 wants to put the biggest schools on the biggest stage, and the Big East doesn't exactly scream big, except in basketball. D4 isn't going to advocate one sport wonders...

(07-23-2013 08:36 PM)sfink16 Wrote:  As usual, I seem to look at things differently than the original poster. Paying $3,000 per student? Really? Do you realize what an accounting and IRS nightmare that would cause? That's income, as in being professional.

Instead, I suggest bringing college back to what it is meant to be, a place of high learning. Let the "professional" sports fend for themselves with their own professional or semi-professional leagues (some minor call these minor leagues).

Now back to paying players argument. Colleges, like all businesses, have balance sheets. Whatever profit they obtain is the profit they plan for. That's what profit businesses do, plan for profit. If paying players becomes a new requirement, the added cost has to be considered and the balance of additional revenue or cuts elsewhere. Who is going to make what cuts? Where does the additional revenue come from? Most likely tuition. Is everyone OK with passing on cost to students?

I must be naive. I thought colleges were not-for-profits. Isn't that why donations to them are tax deductible.

Following your very legitimate points, they should be treated as for-profit enterprises, they should pay taxes, their boosters should not get the benefit of a tax deduction for their donations, and the Athletic Dept. should report to its own Board of Directors just like any other business.

(10-11-2013 08:09 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  If D4 happens, I'm pretty sure the Big East won't be a part. One of the things D4 will want is all schools to be playing all sports at the same level. Since the Big East doesn't support FBS football, they won't qualify...

If you bring in the Big East, then you open the door for every conference that supports some kind of football, and that's not the desired effect. D4 wants to put the biggest schools on the biggest stage, and the Big East doesn't exactly scream big, except in basketball. D4 isn't going to advocate one sport wonders...

One sport wonders? What are you talking about?

Check the national rankings in soccer and note the number of Big East teams. Same is true in any number of other sports.

The real issue is paying players. My hunch is that D4 will include anyone who is willing to pay players. I have real doubts that The Big East will be willing to do that regardless of whatever revenue stream they have available.

(10-11-2013 09:59 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  

(10-11-2013 08:09 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  If D4 happens, I'm pretty sure the Big East won't be a part. One of the things D4 will want is all schools to be playing all sports at the same level. Since the Big East doesn't support FBS football, they won't qualify...

If you bring in the Big East, then you open the door for every conference that supports some kind of football, and that's not the desired effect. D4 wants to put the biggest schools on the biggest stage, and the Big East doesn't exactly scream big, except in basketball. D4 isn't going to advocate one sport wonders...

One sport wonders? What are you talking about?

Check the national rankings in soccer and note the number of Big East teams. Same is true in any number of other sports.

The real issue is paying players. My hunch is that D4 will include anyone who is willing to pay players. I have real doubts that The Big East will be willing to do that regardless of whatever revenue stream they have available.

Basketball is the only sport the Big East competes in that makes any real money. The other sports are irrelevant in this conversation, since a few extra pennies means nothing...

(10-10-2013 04:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:36 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 01:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 12:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 08:42 PM)Bleeds_Purple Wrote:  THERE WILL BE NO D4!!!!!

Yes there will but it will include all FBS as a separate division.

If D4 happens, it won't include all FBS schools. D4 would reduce the number to diminish the number of hands reaching into the pot. They've been stating that as one of their objectives since the beginning. What makes anyone think they'd change their mind at this time?

if the division is only 64 schools, there won't be enough schools to support a separate championship for all the other sports. That's why it will include all FBS programs....or those FBS programs who choose to be in that division as there are some schools who are FBS that won't want to be part of that division. In the proposal, it was stated they were not certain if FBS was a full division if there would be enough schools for support the championships for all the other sports. However, I believe even if those FBS programs who don't want to go along there will be others that can support that FBS division coming forth and once actually calculated, will see there are enough schools in FBS that can support a separate championship on their own without other FCS or Non-football conferences. Some sports will cross over as they are an association championship.

I seriously doubt all FBS schools will be considered, even though I know that's not what most people here want to believe...

Does anyone think Appalachian State is going to be selected for D4? I don't. I'm pretty sure none of the other recent upgraded schools will either. If any Go5 conferences are considered, the AAC and MWC will be at the top of the list. Whether anyone else makes the list remains to be seen...

Why does it matter what conference they're from, especially when you get to the G5 conferences? This isn't going to happen - they want to get the basketball schools out of the equation, not the FBS football schools - but if it did, they (whoever "they" is) would pick schools regardless of what conference they're in.

(10-12-2013 01:56 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 04:39 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 02:36 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 01:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-10-2013 12:43 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Yes there will but it will include all FBS as a separate division.

If D4 happens, it won't include all FBS schools. D4 would reduce the number to diminish the number of hands reaching into the pot. They've been stating that as one of their objectives since the beginning. What makes anyone think they'd change their mind at this time?

if the division is only 64 schools, there won't be enough schools to support a separate championship for all the other sports. That's why it will include all FBS programs....or those FBS programs who choose to be in that division as there are some schools who are FBS that won't want to be part of that division. In the proposal, it was stated they were not certain if FBS was a full division if there would be enough schools for support the championships for all the other sports. However, I believe even if those FBS programs who don't want to go along there will be others that can support that FBS division coming forth and once actually calculated, will see there are enough schools in FBS that can support a separate championship on their own without other FCS or Non-football conferences. Some sports will cross over as they are an association championship.

I seriously doubt all FBS schools will be considered, even though I know that's not what most people here want to believe...

Does anyone think Appalachian State is going to be selected for D4? I don't. I'm pretty sure none of the other recent upgraded schools will either. If any Go5 conferences are considered, the AAC and MWC will be at the top of the list. Whether anyone else makes the list remains to be seen...

Why does it matter what conference they're from, especially when you get to the G5 conferences? This isn't going to happen - they want to get the basketball schools out of the equation, not the FBS football schools - but if it did, they (whoever "they" is) would pick schools regardless of what conference they're in.

It all depends on what criteria are used as qualification standards for D4. At present, nobody really knows. I'm guessing, like everyone else...

If I had my way in this, I'd set the standards pretty high. Some P5 schools would be out in the cold, and some G5 would gain inclusion. But since I have no say in the matter, who can say at the moment?

(10-11-2013 12:00 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(07-23-2013 07:22 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  The Premise: The "P5" split away from the rest pf FBS to form a "D4". Schools are mandated to pay a $3000 per athletic student per year stipend (not just fball, but all student athletes). The best (overall, not just athletic) teams from the MAC, American, and MWC to be included in the highest division of college football. Revenue across the board would increase from renegotiated tv deals, better postseason access, and a smaller amount of schools that benefit from the postseason pool, i.e. 6 conferences instead of 10, 85 teams instead of 125+.

How it pertains to us: the so-called "P5" need an additional conference to avoid massive lawsuit, and to diversify the CFB product, in both OOC and post season.

How teams are chosen: Current athletic budget, Regional history, and current investment level

Total FBS "D4": 14 ACC, 14 SEC, 10 B12, 14 B1G, 12 Pac, 20 American, 1 ND = 85 teams

Football Postseason:
• "P5": 12 team playoff; 6 Champions (ACC, American, B12, B1G, SEC, Pac12) + 6 at large. Top 4 seeds get first round bye
• American Championship Playoffs: 4 pods of 5 teams, winner of each pods is "Pod Champion", meets oppositely seeded "Pod Champion" in Semifinal of 4 teams. Winner of playoff advances to CFP slot.
  

The Team Alignment:

American North
Link



Selection between UMass OR New York (both are land grant universities, New York is AAU I believe)

Army FB Only

American South

Link



Navy FB Only

American Midwest

Link



AFA Football Only

American West

Link



Conference regular season:

• 4 Intra-Pod games, 6 Inter-Pod games = 10 total conference games
• Cycle home-away each year.
• Play every single team in the conference home and away every 6 years, not including Playoffs
  

Conference Playoff

• Best overall record from each pod meet at Semifinal Neutral Site (4 teams, 2 games), For example Boise State, Cinci, Houston, ECU
• Winners meet for CCG, with winner getting the Playoff Spot
  
  Basketball:
  
  • There are 17 All sport schools in this conference.
  • Any one team will play 4 nearest regional members home and away each year
  • Play every other team once
  • 20 Total conference games including such BBall powers as UNLV, SDSU, BYU, Memphis, Cinci, Houston, UConn, and Temple, among other teams ready to invest.
    
  
  
  Pros:
  • Nationwide Conference, with regional strengths
  • Larger Revenue
  • Larger Exposure
  • NOT being relegated to FCS 2.0
  • Legitimate top 3 Basketball conference
  • Unique, attention-grabbing post season play.
  • Sole "Cinderella" status
    
  Cons:
  • More difficulty scheduling favorable OOC matchups? i.e. Home and home's vs. 1 and dones, 2 for 1's etc
    

So I will play along. I don't understand the east coast obsession with the academies. They are barely competitive in football and not competitive in other sports. They more than any other schools belong in the lower division with the Ivy's the Horizon League, Patriot League and other conferences the emphasize academics over athletics.

You need to dump all three and move Memphis to the South where they belong. Add New Mexico (which is quite good in most sports and has a huge revenue stream) and Colorado State to the central. I don't know the east so you decide who goes there.

I like this plan. You can dump the academies and add New Mexico, CSU, and Hawaii football only.

Whether the OP is proposing having some conferences with teams simultaneously from two different divisions, or having a whole new conference with those 20 teams leaving their current conferences, the premise is absurd.

I vote for playing candy crush, lol