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What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #1
What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2013 09:38 PM by ohio1317.)
09-26-2013 09:38 PM
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Post: #2
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.

Like all suggestions, but #1. Would include cost of attendance for all full scholarship athletes paid by athletic departments. Not a set stipend across the board (cost more to live in NYC and LA than it does in Columbus, Oh or Gainsville, Fl) or stipend for only those in need (shouldn't penalize an athlete because his parents are middle class or wealthy).
09-26-2013 11:07 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #3
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.

I wouldn't think most of that is a good idea. I'd rather stay fairly close to the current amateur model.

#1-Normal scholarship rules plus a full cost of attendance stipend. But we don't pay players to play football in college.

#2-NCAA endorsement deals like EA-Sports NCAA Football are split evenly among the players. Basically, money is being made off the players names--no reason not to send these kids some of it. It wont be big money but at least a little pocket change.

#3-Players can hire agents but can receive no benefit from said agents beyond advice and representation. No cash (that includes cash to mom or dad). No plane trips or tickets either. If agents want to bet their time on the kids futures fine by me. The kids might even get some decent honest unbiased advice.

#4-Players may sell autographs and jerseys through an NCAA created website only. No ebay. No Craigs List. Prices will be uniform and the value to the player is capped at $5,000. The rest of the proceeds are split 50/50 between the NCAA and the school. This is not to get rich. This is just to let the kid have some spending money and the idea is that the money is similar to what the typical college kid earns with a decent part time job over the course of a year. I know this is a pain, but if its not done in a centralized regulated way, this could easily spin out of control into basically bidding for players.

#5-Two kinds of scholarships can be offered. Full guaranteed 4yr and year-to-year. A kid on a 4 year guaranteed scholarship must sit out a year if he transfers to another school. On a year-to-year scholarship the kid can transfer to another school and play immediately. If you want see player loyalty---then show loyalty.

#6--A school must offer an extra year of free attendance to any student athlete that exhausts his athletic eligibility but has not yet graduated and is still in good academic standing at the university. To be eligible, the athlete must spend his entire career at one school. Athletes that transfer from one FBS school to another FBS school lose this perk. However, athletes that transfer from a Jr College to an FBS college ARE eligible (provided that's the only FBS school they every play for and they exhaust their athletic eligibility there).

#7-Players that enter a draft but are not chosen (or are chosen lower than they wish) are given the option to return to college and play if they have eligibility remaining. As long as they don't sign a contract and do not receive money---they can return to school. No reason to penalize a kid because he is not as good as he thought he was. (lol...we have all been guilty of that at some point).

#8-Get rid of all stupid rules regarding receiving value from a school. If a kid washes his car with a school water hose or uses the phone in the coaches office to call home---we don't need and investigation or sanctions. Come up with a nominal value--say $20 where we just dont fool with. Look at this type of stuff the same way as we might look at incidental contact on the football field. Unless its done in a comprehensive way to try to funnel significant money to players in small amounts--then little incidents like these should be treated as no more than a coach just being a decent human being and not some sort of sinister plot to make Big State a juggernaut.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 12:39 AM by Attackcoog.)
09-27-2013 12:29 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #4
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
If were are going to make it where boosters are openly paying recruits directly, then there can be no claim on any level of amateurism. That means that major college football basically becomes the equivalent of the NBA's D league. Also, it means that all of those tax exempt advantages that they currently enjoy need to be stripped away immediately and given back to the public, where it belongs.

If college athletics adopts that system then the Ohio State Buckeyes basically become the Columbus Clippers. If people are cool with that, that is entirely up to them. However, if that becomes the situation then I will choose to focus all of my time and energy on the top division, the NFL, rather than the minor league version of the sport.
09-27-2013 09:08 AM
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LSUtah Offline
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Post: #5
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.

#2, although that would tilt the favor even more to the existing high profile universities/conferences.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 09:12 AM by LSUtah.)
09-27-2013 09:12 AM
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brista21 Offline
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RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-27-2013 12:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.

I wouldn't think most of that is a good idea. I'd rather stay fairly close to the current amateur model.

#1-Normal scholarship rules plus a full cost of attendance stipend. But we don't pay players to play football in college.

#2-NCAA endorsement deals like EA-Sports NCAA Football are split evenly among the players. Basically, money is being made off the players names--no reason not to send these kids some of it. It wont be big money but at least a little pocket change.

#3-Players can hire agents but can receive no benefit from said agents beyond advice and representation. No cash (that includes cash to mom or dad). No plane trips or tickets either. If agents want to bet their time on the kids futures fine by me. The kids might even get some decent honest unbiased advice.

#4-Players may sell autographs and jerseys through an NCAA created website only. No ebay. No Craigs List. Prices will be uniform and the value to the player is capped at $5,000. The rest of the proceeds are split 50/50 between the NCAA and the school. This is not to get rich. This is just to let the kid have some spending money and the idea is that the money is similar to what the typical college kid earns with a decent part time job over the course of a year. I know this is a pain, but if its not done in a centralized regulated way, this could easily spin out of control into basically bidding for players.

#5-Two kinds of scholarships can be offered. Full guaranteed 4yr and year-to-year. A kid on a 4 year guaranteed scholarship must sit out a year if he transfers to another school. On a year-to-year scholarship the kid can transfer to another school and play immediately. If you want see player loyalty---then show loyalty.

#6--A school must offer an extra year of free attendance to any student athlete that exhausts his athletic eligibility but has not yet graduated and is still in good academic standing at the university. To be eligible, the athlete must spend his entire career at one school. Athletes that transfer from one FBS school to another FBS school lose this perk. However, athletes that transfer from a Jr College to an FBS college ARE eligible (provided that's the only FBS school they every play for and they exhaust their athletic eligibility there).

#7-Players that enter a draft but are not chosen (or are chosen lower than they wish) are given the option to return to college and play if they have eligibility remaining. As long as they don't sign a contract and do not receive money---they can return to school. No reason to penalize a kid because he is not as good as he thought he was. (lol...we have all been guilty of that at some point).

#8-Get rid of all stupid rules regarding receiving value from a school. If a kid washes his car with a school water hose or uses the phone in the coaches office to call home---we don't need and investigation or sanctions. Come up with a nominal value--say $20 where we just dont fool with. Look at this type of stuff the same way as we might look at incidental contact on the football field. Unless its done in a comprehensive way to try to funnel significant money to players in small amounts--then little incidents like these should be treated as no more than a coach just being a decent human being and not some sort of sinister plot to make Big State a juggernaut.

Attackcoog, this is a really great model to move towards. Very well thought out my friend.
09-27-2013 09:14 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #7
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-27-2013 09:14 AM)brista21 Wrote:  
(09-27-2013 12:29 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.
I wouldn't think most of that is a good idea. I'd rather stay fairly close to the current amateur model.

#1-Normal scholarship rules plus a full cost of attendance stipend. But we don't pay players to play football in college.

#2-NCAA endorsement deals like EA-Sports NCAA Football are split evenly among the players. Basically, money is being made off the players names--no reason not to send these kids some of it. It wont be big money but at least a little pocket change.

#3-Players can hire agents but can receive no benefit from said agents beyond advice and representation. No cash (that includes cash to mom or dad). No plane trips or tickets either. If agents want to bet their time on the kids futures fine by me. The kids might even get some decent honest unbiased advice.

#4-Players may sell autographs and jerseys through an NCAA created website only. No ebay. No Craigs List. Prices will be uniform and the value to the player is capped at $5,000. The rest of the proceeds are split 50/50 between the NCAA and the school. This is not to get rich. This is just to let the kid have some spending money and the idea is that the money is similar to what the typical college kid earns with a decent part time job over the course of a year. I know this is a pain, but if its not done in a centralized regulated way, this could easily spin out of control into basically bidding for players.

#5-Two kinds of scholarships can be offered. Full guaranteed 4yr and year-to-year. A kid on a 4 year guaranteed scholarship must sit out a year if he transfers to another school. On a year-to-year scholarship the kid can transfer to another school and play immediately. If you want see player loyalty---then show loyalty.

#6--A school must offer an extra year of free attendance to any student athlete that exhausts his athletic eligibility but has not yet graduated and is still in good academic standing at the university. To be eligible, the athlete must spend his entire career at one school. Athletes that transfer from one FBS school to another FBS school lose this perk. However, athletes that transfer from a Jr College to an FBS college ARE eligible (provided that's the only FBS school they every play for and they exhaust their athletic eligibility there).

#7-Players that enter a draft but are not chosen (or are chosen lower than they wish) are given the option to return to college and play if they have eligibility remaining. As long as they don't sign a contract and do not receive money---they can return to school. No reason to penalize a kid because he is not as good as he thought he was. (lol...we have all been guilty of that at some point).

#8-Get rid of all stupid rules regarding receiving value from a school. If a kid washes his car with a school water hose or uses the phone in the coaches office to call home---we don't need and investigation or sanctions. Come up with a nominal value--say $20 where we just dont fool with. Look at this type of stuff the same way as we might look at incidental contact on the football field. Unless its done in a comprehensive way to try to funnel significant money to players in small amounts--then little incidents like these should be treated as no more than a coach just being a decent human being and not some sort of sinister plot to make Big State a juggernaut.
Attackcoog, this is a really great model to move towards. Very well thought out my friend.
The only problem is see with this is involving agents. They're not trustworthy, due to the nature of the business. If they're involved, the fight for the best players will involve monies being dealt out in all violation of the spirit of coog's plan...

I say let that fight happen once their college career is over. The NCAA can provide people with similar skills and knowledge, who can guide the kids in making the best decisions for themselves about their future. And that includes the choice of an agent, once the player decides their college career is done...
09-27-2013 10:25 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-27-2013 09:08 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  If were are going to make it where boosters are openly paying recruits directly, then there can be no claim on any level of amateurism. That means that major college football basically becomes the equivalent of the NBA's D league. Also, it means that all of those tax exempt advantages that they currently enjoy need to be stripped away immediately and given back to the public, where it belongs.

If college athletics adopts that system then the Ohio State Buckeyes basically become the Columbus Clippers. If people are cool with that, that is entirely up to them. However, if that becomes the situation then I will choose to focus all of my time and energy on the top division, the NFL, rather than the minor league version of the sport.

It would be every bit as much amateurism as the Olympics which basically follow the same model now.

I don't particularly like what my suggestions do to the sport (although I don't think it would decrease sport popularity in the slightest), but I think it's the only moral option given the model the schools themselves have choose.

They could have let this be run like division 3. They haven't. They have set it up to profit as much as they can and by doing so are not primarily having the athletes as students, but using them as employees. In that light, it's unethical to prohibit them from profiting on their own.
09-27-2013 11:06 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #9
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-27-2013 09:12 AM)LSUtah Wrote:  
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Inspired by recent talk and Frank the Tank's blog.

Let's assume the NFL and NBA aren't going to spend a lot of money on farm systems. What do you think the NCAA model for student athletes should look like? Keep the current system or make adjustments?

Given that the schools are using the big sports as money makers and not treating them like extra circulars, but also that there is value in the student athlete model, I suggest the following (what others have called the Olympic model):

1. No direct payment to players beyond standard scholarships and grants.
2. Players may sign any endorsement deal they want. They can sell autographs and their likeness. They can also sign agents to advise them on their NFL/NBA stock.
3. Boosters may directly give to athletes, but it must be above the table and monitored by the NCAA. The NCAA should know all transactions that are going on and able to investigate foul play.
4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

The end result of this would be that a lot of the booster donations used to get high paying coaching and great facilities (the current way to get the best recruits) would likely switch to player donations. I think that seems fair.

#2, although that would tilt the favor even more to the existing high profile universities/conferences.

To a small extent maybe, but I actually don't think it would be very different.

Most those, coming out of high school, who look like they could make significant money on endorsements or from boosters, are already going to the high profile schools and conferences.

The only really big difference from now (beyond taking some booster money out of facilities/coaches and putting directly into players) would be that it would probably be easier for a big donor to help a smaller school rise. That money might be more effective if directly given to players than in facilities/coaches.
09-27-2013 11:13 AM
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Post: #10
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
Extra cash monthly stipend from University is fine.

No booster cash
No agents until you declare for the draft
You can sell autos and jerseys after you are done playing football. You can try to cap it at $5,000 Max annually
but the buyer will resell for a profit (like a cousin or uncle) and funnel money back to player.
Regarding endorsements, selling your likeness..........need to wait for the O'Bannon case to be finalized.

I don't care much about 4 1 year schollys or a 4 year scholly etc.
09-27-2013 12:50 PM
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Post: #11
RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
(09-26-2013 09:38 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  4. One year out of the sport rule continues for transfers. If you want to go to another school where boosters offer more you can, but you are sitting out a year.

I'm not in favor of that, in fact I think it's one of the most two-faced, hypocritical rules in a rulebook full of them. Transfers should never have to sit out a year.

If player transfers have to sit out a year, can we make coaches sit out a year, too? Let's make Butch Jones, Bret Bielema, and Steve Alford sit out this year and wait for a year to start coaching at their new school after transferring.

And assistant coaches, too -- some assistants move to a new school every couple of years or even more often than that. (Yeah, yeah, sometimes they move only because their previous head coach got fired -- and that's exactly the reason why a lot of players would like to change schools, too.)
09-27-2013 01:13 PM
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RE: What Model Should the NCAA Follow?
They should follow this model:

[Image: forbes-2013-models-highest-paid-3.jpg?w=...;amp;h=543]
09-28-2013 09:14 AM
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