i see it as a very real possibility considering the enemies they have made with 2 of the 10 FBS conferences (the AAC & ACC)

I sure hope so. It would make me smile.

When did the Big East make an enemy out of the ACC?

(09-24-2013 09:09 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  When did the Big East make an enemy out of the ACC?

considering
-half the ACC is former BE schools

-the BE got the MSG toruny which is something that the ACC has been very public about them wanting

-the big east is a very competitive BB league thats in the same footprint that the ACC wants to dominate by themselves

IMO the only real ally the BE has in the ACC is syracuse

Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

(09-24-2013 09:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i see it as a very real possibility considering the enemies they have made with 2 of the 10 FBS conferences (the AAC & ACC)

Yeah, they made "so many" enemies that every time the 12 teams who were with them had the chance to separate from them they were so opposed to it never came up to a vote.

Even if the answer is yes, does it matter? There's no proposal or desire to separate out the NCAA Tournament at all (which, for whatever, doesn't seem to be clear to everyone even though it has been repeated in virtually every story about Division 4). The main disadvantage that the Big East (or any other basketball conference that's not in Division 4) would possibly be in recruiting with respect to stipends. That might have an impact, but it's still nowhere near the same issue as football.

EDIT: Looks like Attackcoog had the exact same thought that I did.

(09-24-2013 09:32 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i see it as a very real possibility considering the enemies they have made with 2 of the 10 FBS conferences (the AAC & ACC)

Yeah, they made "so many" enemies that every time the 12 teams who were with them had the chance to separate from them they were so opposed to it never came up to a vote.

but a split did happen....and one set of schools got the name AND msg

so which side do you think holds a grudge?

(09-24-2013 09:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:09 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  When did the Big East make an enemy out of the ACC?

considering
-half the ACC is former BE schools

-the BE got the MSG tourny which is something that the ACC has been very public about them wanting - If competition makes you an enemy, then the Big Ten would be trying to kick out the ACC and the Big 12

-the big east is a very competitive BB league thats in the same footprint that the ACC wants to dominate by themselves - What kind of loser do you have to be to be so scared of a competitor that you try to kick them out of the league?

IMO the only real ally the BE has in the ACC is Syracuse - Let's see: Notre Dame is awfully friendly with them. Pitt and Louisville never had any problems, nor did Boston College. Miami is about the only one you might find issue with, but their problem was less with the Big East (C7) then the entire Big East collective's lack of vision, which includes fellow ACC members VPI, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. And they certainly have no problems with any of them now, so why would a grudge be held against the remaining Big East teams. Virginia Tech stole Syracuse' spot in the ACC, and Boston College joined a lawsuit against the ACC, and ALL are forgiven. Yet you think the Big East teams will somehow be scapegoated for something? Do you even try to make sense on these posts?

(09-24-2013 09:37 AM)john01992 Wrote:  but a split did happen....and one set of schools got the name AND msg

so which side do you think holds a grudge?

You are not really that dense are you? The teams in the ACC that you said hold a grudge, NEVER split from the C7/Big East regardless of the opportunities that happened. When the C7 split, they split because the teams in the ACC, the ones they wanted to be with, the ones you say hold a grudge, were ALL gone.

You make no sense. Again! The only schools that could possibly hold a grudge would be UConn, Cincy, and USF. And since they all tried to leave and go to the ACC, even they could not legitimately hold a grudge for them leaving. And truth be told, they ALL understand why it happened. And they got paid royally for it.

(09-24-2013 09:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

I think the recruiting advantages would be a lot different. I mean, let's take Marquette. How many kids would go there, when Wisconsin could offer a $2,000 stpiend? Definitely none of the top 100 players. Right now, the Big East in the ESPN 100 has 11 recruits for the '14 season. BYU, Gonzaga and VCU have recruits as well in the top 100. How many of those stay with those schools if the FBS schools can offer $$$? Not many I'd guess.

(09-24-2013 09:36 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Even if the answer is yes, does it matter? There's no proposal or desire to separate out the NCAA Tournament at all (which, for whatever, doesn't seem to be clear to everyone even though it has been repeated in virtually every story about Division 4).

Strange thing is, the reason I originally never thought any of this would happen (a split) was precisely because of the NCAA tournament, which regardless of what many believe, would be utterly and irreparably harmed if it did not include the smaller teams. But once I saw that it didn't (and that it wasn't a true separation from the NCAA) then I knew it would eventually happen unless some unforeseen concessions are made.

(09-24-2013 09:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:09 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  When did the Big East make an enemy out of the ACC?

considering
-half the ACC is former BE schools

-the BE got the MSG toruny which is something that the ACC has been very public about them wanting

-the big east is a very competitive BB league thats in the same footprint that the ACC wants to dominate by themselves

IMO the only real ally the BE has in the ACC is syracuse

Please count Louisville out of your theory. No way we would want some of the nation's best basketball programs excluded from any tourney (or "toruny" even) that would determine a national champion.

There is a lot of bad blood between the American and BE administrations from as much as we can tell. I wouldn't be surprised if the American tried to use their voting (especially if it's weighted like has been contemplated) to create parameters that are difficult for the BE to meet for the new division.

As a Temple fan, as horrible as it is, giving Villanova a taste of their own medicine would make me smile. They kept Temple out of the Big East as long as they could, then led the nBE split when they had their chance.

(09-24-2013 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

I think the recruiting advantages would be a lot different. I mean, let's take Marquette. How many kids would go there, when Wisconsin could offer a $2,000 stpiend? Definitely none of the top 100 players. Right now, the Big East in the ESPN 100 has 11 recruits for the '14 season. BYU, Gonzaga and VCU have recruits as well in the top 100. How many of those stay with those schools if the FBS schools can offer $$$? Not many I'd guess.

I think the stipend is a disadvantage, but it's not outcome determinative. The power 5 conferences already have a massive structural advantage in terms of recruiting for basketball (not just football), so the stipend (or lack thereof) is just one other item to manage if you're a non-Division 4 school. The Wisconsins of the world already have massive advantages against the Marquettes of the world. Losing a recruiting battle against a Big Ten or ACC school isn't likely going to be because of the stipend itself. Now, it's an entirely different matter if Marquette starts losing recruiting battles to G5 schools simply because of the stipend. That's the scenario that would certainly be troublesome, but I think that's less likely to occur at least in the case of the Big East because of the TV contract money and exposure.

(09-24-2013 09:58 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

I think the recruiting advantages would be a lot different. I mean, let's take Marquette. How many kids would go there, when Wisconsin could offer a $2,000 stpiend? Definitely none of the top 100 players. Right now, the Big East in the ESPN 100 has 11 recruits for the '14 season. BYU, Gonzaga and VCU have recruits as well in the top 100. How many of those stay with those schools if the FBS schools can offer $$$? Not many I'd guess.

I think the stipend is a disadvantage, but it's not outcome determinative. The power 5 conferences already have a massive structural advantage in terms of recruiting for basketball (not just football), so the stipend (or lack thereof) is just one other item to manage if you're a non-Division 4 school. The Wisconsins of the world already have massive advantages against the Marquettes of the world. Losing a recruiting battle against a Big Ten or ACC school isn't likely going to be because of the stipend itself. Now, it's an entirely different matter if Marquette starts losing recruiting battles to G5 schools simply because of the stipend. That's the scenario that would certainly be troublesome, but I think that's less likely to occur at least in the case of the Big East because of the TV contract money and exposure.

So you think that the Big East would keep all 11 recruits? I just don't see that. Not being able to give a stipend would be devastating.

Also- recruits don't see the TV contract money. But- the exposure- esp with the AAC's new deal- clearly rivals what the Big East got. And, they're on ESPN some.

(09-24-2013 10:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:58 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

I think the recruiting advantages would be a lot different. I mean, let's take Marquette. How many kids would go there, when Wisconsin could offer a $2,000 stpiend? Definitely none of the top 100 players. Right now, the Big East in the ESPN 100 has 11 recruits for the '14 season. BYU, Gonzaga and VCU have recruits as well in the top 100. How many of those stay with those schools if the FBS schools can offer $$$? Not many I'd guess.

I think the stipend is a disadvantage, but it's not outcome determinative. The power 5 conferences already have a massive structural advantage in terms of recruiting for basketball (not just football), so the stipend (or lack thereof) is just one other item to manage if you're a non-Division 4 school. The Wisconsins of the world already have massive advantages against the Marquettes of the world. Losing a recruiting battle against a Big Ten or ACC school isn't likely going to be because of the stipend itself. Now, it's an entirely different matter if Marquette starts losing recruiting battles to G5 schools simply because of the stipend. That's the scenario that would certainly be troublesome, but I think that's less likely to occur at least in the case of the Big East because of the TV contract money and exposure.

So you think that the Big East would keep all 11 recruits? I just don't see that. Not being able to give a stipend would be devastating.

Also- recruits don't see the TV contract money. But- the exposure- esp with the AAC's new deal- clearly rivals what the Big East got. And, they're on ESPN some.

What are you talking about Stever? ESPNU and CBSSN is the same as almost every game on FS1?

(09-24-2013 09:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i see it as a very real possibility considering the enemies they have made with 2 of the 10 FBS conferences (the AAC & ACC)

Did you get that from an inside source at one of the ten schools you root for?

If the divide allows FBS schools to offer stipends, then the Big East and any other nonfootball conferences willing to offer stipends and comply with whatever other obligations are imposed (aside from having an FBS football team), need to be allowed in. I could imagine that requirements for an increased minimum number of sports sponsored and scholarships funded be applied to nonfootball schools in FBS to bring these conferences closer to parity.

(09-24-2013 09:16 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:09 AM)4x4hokies Wrote:  When did the Big East make an enemy out of the ACC?

considering
-half the ACC is former BE schools

-the BE got the MSG toruny which is something that the ACC has been very public about them wanting

-the big east is a very competitive BB league thats in the same footprint that the ACC wants to dominate by themselves

IMO the only real ally the BE has in the ACC is syracuse

I don't think the ex ACC schools care too much about the Big East in terms of hating them. The MSG thing is not going to turn someone into your enemy.

The only school for which there might have been some animosity is UConn and they are no longer part of the equation.

I suspect if the BE tkaes the same representation as the G5 conferences (or maybe less) then they will be invited but that is just a SWAG.

(09-24-2013 11:30 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 10:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:58 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:42 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(09-24-2013 09:25 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Would it matter? It sounds like the NCAA tourney as well as all other olympic sports championships would stay the same. Only football changes. There might be a slight recruiting advantage for D4----but how many basketball kids will opt for Arky State over Georgetown because of $2,000?

I think the recruiting advantages would be a lot different. I mean, let's take Marquette. How many kids would go there, when Wisconsin could offer a $2,000 stpiend? Definitely none of the top 100 players. Right now, the Big East in the ESPN 100 has 11 recruits for the '14 season. BYU, Gonzaga and VCU have recruits as well in the top 100. How many of those stay with those schools if the FBS schools can offer $$$? Not many I'd guess.

I think the stipend is a disadvantage, but it's not outcome determinative. The power 5 conferences already have a massive structural advantage in terms of recruiting for basketball (not just football), so the stipend (or lack thereof) is just one other item to manage if you're a non-Division 4 school. The Wisconsins of the world already have massive advantages against the Marquettes of the world. Losing a recruiting battle against a Big Ten or ACC school isn't likely going to be because of the stipend itself. Now, it's an entirely different matter if Marquette starts losing recruiting battles to G5 schools simply because of the stipend. That's the scenario that would certainly be troublesome, but I think that's less likely to occur at least in the case of the Big East because of the TV contract money and exposure.

So you think that the Big East would keep all 11 recruits? I just don't see that. Not being able to give a stipend would be devastating.

Also- recruits don't see the TV contract money. But- the exposure- esp with the AAC's new deal- clearly rivals what the Big East got. And, they're on ESPN some.

What are you talking about Stever? ESPNU and CBSSN is the same as almost every game on FS1?

How many games does DePaul have on FS1? The exposure whether you like it or not that the AAC is going to be getting is outstanding.