D4 should be all about fbs conf. the BE should be out.

(09-25-2013 07:46 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  D4 should be all about fbs conf. the BE should be out.

Look at how well the Big East panned out. Having conflicting interests killed the hybrid conference. It's a good case study of what NOT to do with a new division.

its been well documented that the ACC wanted miami back when they were an independent, they lost miami to a new football conference called the big east

so yeah i think the ACC-big east feud goes that far back.......

(09-25-2013 08:42 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 07:46 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  D4 should be all about fbs conf. the BE should be out.

Look at how well the Big East panned out. Having conflicting interests killed the hybrid conference. It's a good case study of what NOT to do with a new division.

^^^
this

(09-25-2013 09:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  its been well documented that the ACC wanted miami back when they were an independent, they lost miami to a new football conference called the big east

???

This hasn't been documented anywhere. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is a completely false statement. The ACC didn't want to touch Miami at the time with its image and NCAA compliance issues. In fact, Miami's dream conference had long been the ACC specifically. As a result, Miami was ALWAYS going to bolt the Big East if the ACC ever came calling.

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 09:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  its been well documented that the ACC wanted miami back when they were an independent, they lost miami to a new football conference called the big east

???

This hasn't been documented anywhere. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is a completely false statement. The ACC didn't want to touch Miami at the time with its image and NCAA compliance issues. In fact, Miami's dream conference had long been the ACC specifically. As a result, Miami was ALWAYS going to bolt the Big East if the ACC ever came calling.

Miami's dream was always whatever was in the best interest of Miami, which may or may not have been the ACC. IMO they preferred the SEC. But the SEC had no interest. So Miami settled for the Big East initially, and the ACC when that opportunity presented itself...

Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

(09-25-2013 10:15 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:08 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 09:21 AM)john01992 Wrote:  its been well documented that the ACC wanted miami back when they were an independent, they lost miami to a new football conference called the big east

???

This hasn't been documented anywhere. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that is a completely false statement. The ACC didn't want to touch Miami at the time with its image and NCAA compliance issues. In fact, Miami's dream conference had long been the ACC specifically. As a result, Miami was ALWAYS going to bolt the Big East if the ACC ever came calling.

Miami's dream was always whatever was in the best interest of Miami, which may or may not have been the ACC. IMO they preferred the SEC. But the SEC had no interest. So Miami settled for the Big East initially, and the ACC when that opportunity presented itself...

quick history lesson mate

Four days after spurning Florida State, Kramer met with Miami, one of the two remaining expansion candidates. South Carolina’s trustees had preemptively voted to accept an SEC invitation should one come. Miami was decidedly less enthused. Unlike the mostly public universities in the SEC, Miami was a private school that drew its student body in large numbers from the same geographic area as the Big East. Miami officials were also more interested in using Big East membership to improve its fledgling basketball program.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2011/19...onference/

the fact is miami is a northeast style school in everything but geography. they didnt go to the BE because the ACC & SEC didnt want them, but because they wanted a foothold in the northeast

(09-25-2013 10:17 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

bad blood doesnt stop conference realignment. i never said that and you put those words in my mouth not once but twice.

conf realignment deals with money, and money can turn enemies into friends very quickly

division 4 is about a new ncaa body structure. it has nothing to do with money but the big schools trying to separate from the small schools (like provy, depaul, & seton hall). adding the BE does nothing for the ACC or the b10. now maybe they could of gotten in for the sake of tradition, but they sure did no favors by making enemies with both the ACC & AAC

(09-25-2013 10:47 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:17 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

bad blood doesnt stop conference realignment. i never said that and you put those words in my mouth not once but twice.

conf realignment deals with money, and money can turn enemies into friends very quickly

division 4 is about a new ncaa body structure. it has nothing to do with money but the big schools trying to separate from the small schools (like provy, depaul, & seton hall). adding the BE does nothing for the ACC or the b10. now maybe they could of gotten in for the sake of tradition, but they sure did no favors by making enemies with both the ACC & AAC

It has EVERYTHING to do with money!

The schools who have the money want to separate from the schools who don't. Guess what pal? The Big East has money!!!!

Why should the P5 be allowed to pay players but the Big East who also has the means to do so can't?

(09-25-2013 12:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:47 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:17 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

bad blood doesnt stop conference realignment. i never said that and you put those words in my mouth not once but twice.

conf realignment deals with money, and money can turn enemies into friends very quickly

division 4 is about a new ncaa body structure. it has nothing to do with money but the big schools trying to separate from the small schools (like provy, depaul, & seton hall). adding the BE does nothing for the ACC or the b10. now maybe they could of gotten in for the sake of tradition, but they sure did no favors by making enemies with both the ACC & AAC

It has EVERYTHING to do with money!

The schools who have the money want to separate from the schools who don't. Guess what pal? The Big East has money!!!!

Why should the P5 be allowed to pay players but the Big East who also has the means to do so can't?

its debatable to say wether even the g5 schools can afford the stipend.

now you wanna include depaul???

sorry theres just no way the BE is in the same league as FBS money wise

(09-25-2013 12:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 12:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:47 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:17 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

bad blood doesnt stop conference realignment. i never said that and you put those words in my mouth not once but twice.

conf realignment deals with money, and money can turn enemies into friends very quickly

division 4 is about a new ncaa body structure. it has nothing to do with money but the big schools trying to separate from the small schools (like provy, depaul, & seton hall). adding the BE does nothing for the ACC or the b10. now maybe they could of gotten in for the sake of tradition, but they sure did no favors by making enemies with both the ACC & AAC

It has EVERYTHING to do with money!

The schools who have the money want to separate from the schools who don't. Guess what pal? The Big East has money!!!!

Why should the P5 be allowed to pay players but the Big East who also has the means to do so can't?

its debatable to say wether even the g5 schools can afford the stipend.

now you wanna include depaul???

sorry theres just no way the BE is in the same league as FBS money wise

You need to stop the trolling.

(09-25-2013 12:30 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 12:28 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 12:17 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:47 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 10:17 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Why are you all still responding to this guy. John look, IA m sure you are a good guy, who just wants to discuss things, but you are well out of your league here. You simply have no idea what you are talking about, and I do mean none. Even worse, you refuse to listen to everyone else who is trying to tell you what you are missing. The key to making a hypothesis in the scientific method, is to observe the experiments. In this case, is to listen to feedback. listen to the feedback, and you will see that you are way off here, and that bad blood you thought existed, really doesn't. If true bad blood existed and affected future configurations as you stated, Memphis would have NEVER been invited to join the Big East, later AAC, due to some bad blood with all five former C-USA teams on their exit. And I mean NEVER. Also Louisville would have NEVER, EVER, been invited to join the ACC, as there was some really bad blood between Louisville and some current ACC members (Florida State and especially Virginia Tech, two teams that lobbied for Louisville to be taken). The fact that they were, let's you know that past grievances mean little.

bad blood doesnt stop conference realignment. i never said that and you put those words in my mouth not once but twice.

conf realignment deals with money, and money can turn enemies into friends very quickly

division 4 is about a new ncaa body structure. it has nothing to do with money but the big schools trying to separate from the small schools (like provy, depaul, & seton hall). adding the BE does nothing for the ACC or the b10. now maybe they could of gotten in for the sake of tradition, but they sure did no favors by making enemies with both the ACC & AAC

It has EVERYTHING to do with money!

The schools who have the money want to separate from the schools who don't. Guess what pal? The Big East has money!!!!

Why should the P5 be allowed to pay players but the Big East who also has the means to do so can't?

its debatable to say wether even the g5 schools can afford the stipend.

now you wanna include depaul???

sorry theres just no way the BE is in the same league as FBS money wise

You need to stop the trolling.

why cuz i speak the truth???

have you seen where the BE schools budgets rank compared to FBS schools? FBS is where the money is and that split is only gonna get biger over time

I tend to agree with john on this one, Red...

IMO any conference that doesn't play football at the highest level is a mid major conference at best, and that includes the Big East...

How many mid major conferences are projected to send HALF their conference to the tourney? I'm sorry, but Georgetown is not what Cleveland State used to be. They're just not.

(09-25-2013 12:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I tend to agree with john on this one, Red...

IMO any conference that doesn't play football at the highest level is a mid major conference at best, and that includes the Big East...

Mid-Major has nothing to do with FB and the Big East is the 6th highest paid conference in terms of TV dollars. The TV folks think they are worth more than the G5 even thought they don't play FB. So only the P5 are power conferences and if you aren't in the P5 no matter what you're a mid-major?

(09-25-2013 12:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I tend to agree with john on this one, Red...

IMO any conference that doesn't play football at the highest level is a mid major conference at best, and that includes the Big East...

Bit, that was not his premise. He tried to change it to that after his original premise fell on deaf ears. His premise was that teams in the AAC and ACC would conspire to keep the Big East teams out due to spite.

That said, for the most part, the core original Big East teams were not the ones standing in the big school's way. It was the smaller schools that don't play major football, the Iona's, Loyola's, Stonybrooks' and Gardner Webb's of the world (just picking out random small colleges) that outnumber the large Division 1A and large basketball schools that were the problem. Schools like the Big East, even the larger A10, MVC, and WCC schools were generally not the problem.

A school like Arkansas State, North Texas, or Louisiana-Monroe the three poorest schools in 1A football, for example, would be less like the P5 schools than a school like Georgetown, Villanova, or St. John's, who all have and spend more money, despite not playing D1A football.

ad, I'll agree with you on your premise. But the Sunbelt, and other lower FBS football conferences aren't about to be considered for D4. So that example doesn't quite apply to what I'm saying...

(09-25-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 12:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I tend to agree with john on this one, Red...

IMO any conference that doesn't play football at the highest level is a mid major conference at best, and that includes the Big East...

Mid-Major has nothing to do with FB and the Big East is the 6th highest paid conference in terms of TV dollars. The TV folks think they are worth more than the G5 even thought they don't play FB. So only the P5 are power conferences and if you aren't in the P5 no matter what you're a mid-major?

Correct. The MAJOR conferences are those that play all their sports at the highest level. Anyone who doesn't isn't MAJOR...

Like I said in another thread, words evolve over time. The original definition of mid-major was made in a landscape of college sports that no longer exists. The original definition no longer applies, since the landscape it was created to describe is gone and will never return again...

(09-25-2013 01:06 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  ad, I'll agree with you on your premise. But the Sunbelt, and other lower FBS football conferences aren't about to be considered for D4. So that example doesn't quite apply to what I'm saying...

(09-25-2013 12:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(09-25-2013 12:45 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I tend to agree with john on this one, Red...

IMO any conference that doesn't play football at the highest level is a mid major conference at best, and that includes the Big East...

Mid-Major has nothing to do with FB and the Big East is the 6th highest paid conference in terms of TV dollars. The TV folks think they are worth more than the G5 even thought they don't play FB. So only the P5 are power conferences and if you aren't in the P5 no matter what you're a mid-major?

Correct. The MAJOR conferences are those that play all their sports at the highest level. Anyone who doesn't isn't MAJOR...

Like I said in another thread, words evolve over time. The original definition of mid-major was made in a landscape of college sports that no longer exists. The original definition no longer applies, since the landscape it was created to describe is gone and will never return again...

St. John's doesn't have FB so we DO play all of our sports at the highest level. Bit, having money and name recognition makes the Big East a Major conference.

We shall see, Red. We shall see. We should come back and readdress this in a decade or so...