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ncbeta Offline
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Post: #161
RE: pac16
(09-25-2013 01:24 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  
(09-25-2013 12:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-25-2013 12:31 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-25-2013 10:07 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-25-2013 09:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  Arkansas' recruiting in Texas dried up when they moved to the SEC. Same thing was expected by Coach Pinkel and appears to be happening to Missouri. Neither has been successful enough in Georgia and Florida to offset.

Basketball has been pretty bad in the SEC the last 3 or 4 years. Not sure what is happening there, but Arkansas still can't win.
Good post on the TV numbers above. As far as the SEC and Basketball I think it boils down to two things. First basketball is not the top priority at most schools and Slive is trying to crack down on that. The second is going to take a long time to overcome. But in every region of the country true athletes usually have choices about which sport to play. Both Football and Baseball are looked upon with more favor in the South than Basketball (Kentucky and most of Tennessee excepted) so the great athletes tend to migrate to the most popular sports. Add to that the fact that in most of the Southeast your high school basketball coach is your football coach who isn't interested in basketball very much and you have a recipe for decline in basketball. Those athletes who choose basketball in the Southeast and are extremely gifted don't sign with SEC schools. They understand the bias and go to conferences where their sport gets some love. It's all a fairly natural and understandable bias. As the SEC has grown even more football crazy, basketball has declined. Plus our weather is better permitting outside sports to have some natural advantages that basketball would have in the North.

We're not in the north, but we sure do play some pretty good basketball for a southern team.04-cheers
So do those jerks that are 17 traffic signals down 15-501 from our campus.

(Bit, notice the proper use of the contraction? BTW we all knew you were right about the spelling of y'all.)
Well, Tennessee and Kentucky excluded, North Carolina is definitely north for most SEC fans. Notice too, Xlance, that traditionally Clemson, Florida State and Miami have not had great basketball programs and since Bobby C. left Georgia Tech they've had problems too. I think it is due more to the extreme football cultures of these Southern most states.

Now I realize that Miami and F.S.U. are on the upswing in hoops and I think if the SEC wants to learn how to do it they need to look at what those programs are doing right to keep basketball first athletes at home.

By the way anything North of Ft. Sumter is suspect for Alabamians and Georgians.

The deep south is found on a line from Wilmington NC, to Gaffney SC, to Knoxville, to the Tri-Cities, to Lexington, Ky., to the bootheel of Missouri - that line south. Then cut off Florida south of northern outskirts of Orlando. Then cut out New Orleans. That's the south.

Most of NC and Va is the upper south but we are not Yankees, or Yinzers, etc., 03-wink 30 miles south of Columbus Ohio and you are back in the upper south - they have sweet tea and Moon Pie. 03-wink

Take that Wilmington line and shoot it straight up to Rocky Mount, east to Tarboro and follow it to the inner banks. That section of NC resembles more of the south outside of NC than it resembles the urban crescent of North Carolina.
(This post was last modified: 09-25-2013 08:40 PM by ncbeta.)
09-25-2013 08:39 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #162
RE: pac16
(09-25-2013 08:28 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-24-2013 08:14 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(09-24-2013 05:12 PM)john01992 Wrote:  
(09-24-2013 04:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(09-23-2013 09:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I have no doubts but what this is still the mindset of the PAC for expansion. It's just obviously no longer the mindset of Texas and Oklahoma, or Oklahoma State. None of the sites really favor this move outside of the Computer Science/Tech alums at UT who would love a connection to silicon valley. Oklahoma is a FOX leaning property.....hello Big 10 if they can get in. The only conference that could hijack Oklahoma is the only other conference that could offer both Oklahoma and Oklahoma State...the SEC. I just don't think we will offer both unless it is a 4 team deal that gains us more market share and profitability with 4 teams. That is the only way to cover Oklahoma State's entry.

JR, I still think that Missouri is the wildcard. If the B1G can flip them, then the SEC is looking for at least three teams and maybe 4 depending on what happens way to the east.
Oklahoma and Oklahoma State then become a real possibility along with say...Baylor to join the SEC.

all the b10 has to do is ask and they will leave. its not a question of "can they" but "will they"

Blah, blah, blah. I'll believe it when I see it.

John, Missouri's not going anywhere to lose 5 million a year for ten years when they are fully vested in the SEC.

And XLance, I like you, but South Carolina isn't going to give up 15 million a year to go back to the ACC which likely won't have a network and will be stuck at 21 million for a while. By 2016 the SEC payout will be between 35 - 37 million per team per year.

So far in realignment the Big 10 has had one home run and one double, Penn State and Nebraska which should have been out of the park but the North wind blew them back in. Since then they've picked up one walk and a single, Maryland and Rutgers (I think Rutgers could get upgraded to a double).

The ACC picked up a double in Syracuse, a single in Pitt, a reached on an error in B.C., what should have been a home run in Florida State, but it fell in for a triple, and a stretched double in Miami. Notre Dame is a great reliever, but doesn't come to bat.

The PAC got two singles with double potential.

The poor ole SEC got a solid double in Arkansas, a single stretched to a double in South Carolina, a home run in A&M, and another single stretched to a double in Missouri. Not bad for a bunch hicks. Our academic reputation is not as good as the PAC, and still a long shot from the Big 10 and ACC, but we are growing and improving every year.

Athletically we are unsurpassed, really, check the facts.
Academically we are 4th and climbing.
Financially we don't own the top 5 but we dominate the top 20. So across the board we are very strong.
Culturally we are bonded and strong. A&M's fine, and Missouri will learn.

The Big 10 made its moves into the Northeast in response to the ACC's growth. The ACC has been the aggressor and the Big 10 has been reactionary to this point. Maryland was a coup born out of fear of losing Penn State. I think the Big 10 is great academically and like the SEC very cohesive and their recent additions should eventually blend well. But the Big 10 is further behind the SEC in total athletics than the SEC is behind the Big 10 academically. Texas and Oklahoma will have some decisions to make. They love their athletics. Texas academics are strong anyway. Maybe they will go to the Big 10, or PAC, but I seriously doubt it. What's the upside for their fan bases? It's not like the Big 10 can take six of them. They can't. Really only Texas is academically qualified for the Big 10 (Kansas too of course) so I just don't see enough allure for them to go. And as far as the Big 10 wanting Missouri if they had wanted them they would have had them. But what's the point of feeding a pig when you have a share of the pork chops anyway? With Kansas the Big 10 solidifies its presence in St.Louis and Kansas City anyway, without having to buy the whole hog.

So a lot of what I'm hearing as your rock solid reasoning hasn't been reasoned out at all. I'm sure the Big 10 would love to have the 26 million viewers in Texas. But, do they really want Oklahoma without Texas? What would they get? A non-AAU school who like Nebraska would lose its Southern and Southwestern recruiting ties thereby lagging behind their old athletic standards in their new found Northern home, and without bringing much to the CIC table. Oh, I forgot they also bring a paltry 1.1 million viewers. I get Kansas. They are a no brainer for the Big 10. Oklahoma? No. Oklahoma with Texas yes. But I don't see what's in it for the Horns.

As far as the SEC goes they want AAU schools to boost the relevance of the SECU (SEC's version of the CIC). Even the SEC is not going to take Oklahoma State to get Oklahoma. Not unless Texas was in the deal too. But what's in it for the Horns? Not much they don't already have, except renewed games with Arkansas and A&M and a chance to stay in a division that would essentially be on their own home turf. The ACC offers them a national scheduling opportunity for the price of 5 games. That's at least something they might like to have.

Baylor doesn't fit the SEC demographic. They are a great school with good academics, better and better athletics, and would bring DFW in sufficient numbers to be worth the addition. But, that would only be if we absolutely could get no one else that we wanted who fit our profile. And given the stability and strength of the SEC we will be able to fill our slots without having to go to plan C or D.

Bitcruncher was correct in an earlier post, maybe on this thread, when he said that the Big 10 and SEC would dominate the next round of realignment. That is true. Realignment is about money and stability. The ACC was bailed out by a half committed Notre Dame. Still that stability was welcomed. If they should get a half committed Texas as well they'll be okay. The Big 12 is anything but stable. If more realignment comes the Big 10 and SEC will not be raided, even by each other, and will meet their needs without tremendous effort. Why? Because it's about money and stability and they both have both. The PAC does too, but are too far away. And those friends and neighbors are the facts. You can dispute them, cuss them, hate them, deny them, and try to cover them up with lies and damned statistics, but in the end they are what you are going to have to face.

JR, JR, JR
I like the baseball analogy.

1 Missouri will be able to get just as many dollars from the B1G as they will from the SEC.
2 I didn't say anything about South Carolina, but now that you mention it, they might be a good fit for the ACC.

It's going to be interesting to see how and why schools will be chosen, invited or assigned to a conference.
For instance:
If the B1G was really interested in getting an eastern football audience, wouldn't a pod of Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland and West Virginia be a good foil for the ACC's Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pitt and Boston College.
Could Swofford convince the ACC presidents to take West Virginia to keep them out of the B1G?

That's a great question! I think before all this mess gets straightened out there will be a great many supposed taboo boundaries crossed by everyone. Common sense on geography for the sake of expenses, competitive balance (something the networks are hoping for), and structure are going to dictate some events that will leave the staunchest of conference supporters surprised. But I only think this happens if or when we get beyond 16. Until then all present parameters will be in place. I think that the ACC would have to seriously take a look at West Virginia if they move beyond 16. And from where they sit now if profitable options open to the West that could happen.
09-25-2013 08:40 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #163
RE: pac16
(09-25-2013 08:36 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  HO, if you want to get into a discussion on the variation of English dialects around the globe, I can converse on any level you wish to choose. I'll still have a better command of the English language, no matter which dialect you wish to choose. Both of my parents had degrees in either English or journalism. So I got a very good grounding, and I traveled a good bit for diplomatic purposes during my time with the Berlin Brigade Drill Team. It doesn't matter whether it's a domestic dialect, or foreign (northern or southern hemisphere)...

But you were the one that chose southern terminology. It wasn't me. I merely correct an incorrect interpretation on your spelling of a southern term. Why that upsets you is beyond my comprehension though. I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I don't try to interpret the emotional content - unless the wife is involved...

Actually I wasn't the one that chose it. I'm not upset and I don't know why you wish to try and take it to that personal of a level.

Why you see fit to focus in on that little comment of mine can really only be attributed to you having beef with me as I and others have noticed in the past.

This forum is an absolute travesty of language and yet....how often do you don your grammar police hat?
09-25-2013 09:06 PM
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lew240z Offline
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Post: #164
RE: pac16
Could a moderator please change the title of this thread from "pac16" to "geography lessons, grammar lessons and whining about SEC additions"?
09-26-2013 12:25 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #165
RE: pac16
(09-26-2013 12:25 AM)lew240z Wrote:  Could a moderator please change the title of this thread from "pac16" to "geography lessons, grammar lessons and whining about SEC additions"?

Well let's see? We could call it "Histrionic Illiterates in Need of G.P.S."
09-26-2013 12:44 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #166
RE: pac16
I've got a better idea...
09-26-2013 11:54 AM
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