(09-25-2013 08:20 PM)JRsec Wrote: I watched the races in the past. Does anyone cover them live now? Anyway it was an impressive achievement and deserved more coverage. I envy those who can afford to sail. Hitting the gulf stream with nobody else in sight, turning of the radio and drift fishing is one of the most zen like moments in life for me. I once enjoyed that fairly often, but live too far from the coast now to make it a priority, even though it needs to be.
JR, I knew I liked you for some reason: you're a fellow sailor at heart.
NBC Sports Network covered the whole series, including all the cup races live. Not that many people watch NBCSN, though.
That said, this version of the AC was simply a show of technological innovation and not a spectacle of sailing strategy, as the races were far shorter in both distance and duration and the boats never changed sails. A lot of the old strategy of previous cup match racing went out the window here. The new boats are truly technological marvels, as they can reach speeds up to 3x the prevailing wind speed and have been clocked at over 50 mph. There is nothing serene or romantic about these boats and they basically degraded the sport to NASCAR on the water IMHO.
I had heard that much of the seamanship had gone out of the race. It sounds like to me they now need an America's Cup for old style sailing with tacking strategies, sail changes which is all about crew skills and teamwork, and good old fashioned design (but within a specified category). Then we could offer the America's Design trophy to the innovators. Two distinct races would emerge. One for tradition, and one more like the Paris Air Show only for yachting.
And Bob, there's nothing on earth that compares to it for an experience of awe and inner peace is there? I have a couple of things on my bucket list but at the top of it is a working clipper sail from Chile to Easter Island and on to the Galapagos.
I like the idea of having two races. I think the classical version you might be able to field more participants and could also probably get colleges involved. Couple that with the Cat racers like yesterday and you might see a renewed interest in sailing.
JR, one of my most memorable days at sea was standing OOD in the Caribbean with glass seas and witnessing a Green Flash just as the sun set.
Not only the expense, but the fact that a guy died on one of these boats and the boats break more often than the previous versions have may cause the format to change again in the future. I hope they do because these are not open-ocean races anymore. They're done on protected waters and close to shore to help increase the number of spectators. It's really not all that much different from a powerboat race.
(09-25-2013 08:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: The America's Cup hit it's peak with the development of the winged keel for the '83 AC races, which allowed the Aussies to take the cup to Australia. It's been all downhill since...
Do you mean media development or public interest?
Otherwise, you must not have seen these carbon fiber cats going over 50 miles per hour in 20knots of breeze in the bay. The technological development over the past 30 years has been pretty extreme, and you won't see many Dennis Conner type bodies sailing these vessels.
Bit was referring to the classical yacht mono hull form that required various sails and plied the open ocean. Not the catamarans flying around on a simulated race track like they were yesterday. And that extreme tech development has made the sport prohibitively expensive.
I was actually referring to both, van. Public and media interest hit an all-time high in 1983, and it was due to the innovation by the Kiwis that made their version of the tradition design unbeatable...
(09-25-2013 09:38 PM)john01992 Wrote: a racing sports thats not technological innovative fails imo.
john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2013 12:14 PM by bitcruncher.)
john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
for someone who claims they went to MIT, dumb comments like these annoy the heck outta me
(This post was last modified: 09-26-2013 02:17 PM by john01992.)
(09-25-2013 08:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote: The America's Cup hit it's peak with the development of the winged keel for the '83 AC races, which allowed the Aussies to take the cup to Australia. It's been all downhill since...
Do you mean media development or public interest?
Otherwise, you must not have seen these carbon fiber cats going over 50 miles per hour in 20knots of breeze in the bay. The technological development over the past 30 years has been pretty extreme, and you won't see many Dennis Conner type bodies sailing these vessels.
Bit was referring to the classical yacht mono hull form that required various sails and plied the open ocean. Not the catamarans flying around on a simulated race track like they were yesterday. And that extreme tech development has made the sport prohibitively expensive.
I was actually referring to both, van. Public and media interest hit an all-time high in 1983, and it was due to the innovation by the Kiwis that made their version of the tradition design unbeatable...
(09-25-2013 09:38 PM)john01992 Wrote: a racing sports thats not technological innovative fails imo.
john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
It is arguable that 1983 was the height of the cup from a public interest perspective. I happen to disagree, but that is a subjective point of view.
The 1983 winged keel by the Aussies (not Kiwis) was a tweak to the 12 meter box rule that allowed them to barely win in 1983. That said, we've seen a LOT of development since then. The ACC boats were light years more advanced than the 12 meters, and had their own breakages limiting their use in heavy wind and the open ocean. See One Australia (1995), Young America (2000).
(09-26-2013 01:57 PM)john01992 Wrote: john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
Since you don't advocate switching to motors, the technological innovations are a moot point. It's a traditional race, using a traditional type of travel that only exists with a very rich and very select group. Whether or not they use the latest innovations for their sailboats is up to those sponsoring the race, who set up the guidelines for competition...
If the decisions of a sport were left up to the will of the fans, it would be a very screwed up sport...
(09-26-2013 01:57 PM)john01992 Wrote: john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
Since you don't advocate switching to motors, the technological innovations are a moot point. It's a traditional race, using a traditional type of travel that only exists with a very rich and very select group. Whether or not they use the latest innovations for their sailboats is up to those sponsoring the race, who set up the guidelines for competition...
If the decisions of a sport were left up to the will of the fans, it would be a very screwed up sport...
The America's Cup is half-fought in the courtroom. It dwarfs the amount of litigation seen for virtually any other sport in the world. I exaggerate a bit, but it's not too far from the truth.
That said, the rules of the next race are up to either the cup defender or cup challenger of record - depending on who sues first.
(09-26-2013 01:57 PM)john01992 Wrote: john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
Since you don't advocate switching to motors, the technological innovations are a moot point. It's a traditional race, using a traditional type of travel that only exists with a very rich and very select group. Whether or not they use the latest innovations for their sailboats is up to those sponsoring the race, who set up the guidelines for competition...
If the decisions of a sport were left up to the will of the fans, it would be a very screwed up sport...
the tech innovations are moot????? are you out of your freaking mind? these boats are so expensive you need a billionaire backer to build one of them. they go 50 mph at 30-40 feet above the water. they can harness 20 mph wind and use it to go 50 mph. these are modern marvels
and its nowhere close to a rich select elite type sport.
it is so popular in new zealand & australia that they get govt funding to compete in the america's cup. the AC is like the super bowl on crack for them. if you have even been to a yacht club you will see that there are just as many sail boats as there are motor boats
You can rewatch all of the races and coverage for free at the Youtube channel linked below. http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup/videos
The camera coverage and technological aids are on a completely different level than any sailing event televised before.
I did not like the new boats and the inland racing when I first heard of the changes, but having watched them in action I am a total convert. Both as a spectacle and in terms of the competitiveness of the racing, no previous America's Cup comes anywhere close.
There's no way we're going back to the old format after this. It would be a bigger drop than Formula One replacing its cutting edge, open wheel cars with pickup trucks. The speed is essential, not just for the spectacle, and not just to be able to neatly fit a race within a TV block, but to make the sailors' contributions count. When you screw up with these boats, you really screw up, because the design inherently retains very little momentum and the other boat is flying. I think that helped create the reversals of fortune we saw in this series that were rarely seen in the Cups that came before. Most of the previous ones had lopsided results, and the very few that were competitive in win totals weren't as competitive within the races themselves. 9 of the races between Oracle and New Zealand were decided by closer margins than any race between Australia II and Liberty in '83, and that was the only other modern era America's Cup decided by 1 race.
(09-26-2013 04:29 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote: You can rewatch all of the races and coverage for free at the Youtube channel linked below. http://www.youtube.com/user/AmericasCup/videos
The camera coverage and technological aids are on a completely different level than any sailing event televised before.
I did not like the new boats and the inland racing when I first heard of the changes, but having watched them in action I am a total convert. Both as a spectacle and in terms of the competitiveness of the racing, no previous America's Cup comes anywhere close.
There's no way we're going back to the old format after this. It would be a bigger drop than Formula One replacing its cutting edge, open wheel cars with pickup trucks. The speed is essential, not just for the spectacle, and not just to be able to neatly fit a race within a TV block, but to make the sailors' contributions count. When you screw up with these boats, you really screw up, because the design inherently retains very little momentum and the other boat is flying. I think that helped create the reversals of fortune we saw in this series that were rarely seen in the Cups that came before. Most of the previous ones had lopsided results, and the very few that were competitive in win totals weren't as competitive within the races themselves. 9 of the races between Oracle and New Zealand were decided by closer margins than any race between Australia II and Liberty in '83, and that was the only other modern era America's Cup decided by 1 race.
nailed it.......
i come from a racing family. pretty much my entire family loves sailing going back as many generations as i can trace. my dad was a a member of the team in 1983 & 1987.
its been weird to see the transformation.but everyone seems to have picked up on it & accepted it. innovation is good for a racing sport. any racing sport that doesnt have the fastest cars, boats, bikes etc. is gonna fail.
the AC is the highest level of racing and so they should have the fastest possible boats
(09-26-2013 01:57 PM)john01992 Wrote: john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
Since you don't advocate switching to motors, the technological innovations are a moot point. It's a traditional race, using a traditional type of travel that only exists with a very rich and very select group. Whether or not they use the latest innovations for their sailboats is up to those sponsoring the race, who set up the guidelines for competition...
If the decisions of a sport were left up to the will of the fans, it would be a very screwed up sport...
the tech innovations are moot????? are you out of your freaking mind? these boats are so expensive you need a billionaire backer to build one of them. they go 50 mph at 30-40 feet above the water. they can harness 20 mph wind and use it to go 50 mph. these are modern marvels
and its nowhere close to a rich select elite type sport.
it is so popular in new zealand & australia that they get govt funding to compete in the america's cup. the AC is like the super bowl on crack for them. if you have even been to a yacht club you will see that there are just as many sail boats as there are motor boats
Thanks and I agree with your point, John, that sailing is far from a rich and exclusive sport. At some levels it is, sure, but the vast majority of sailors (like boaters in general) operate on a far lower level and at a far lower budget.
For every America's cup pro there are thousands who attend grassroots regattas, sometimes camping out on the club grounds. A big difference from all the spectator sports, including racing sports, is that sailors participate in the sport they watch.
As much as I love my Pirates, I have missed many a game to go sailing.
(09-26-2013 01:57 PM)john01992 Wrote: john, if that's the case, why are they still using sails? They've been rendered obsolete by technology...
i never came close to suggesting that they should switch to motors. the point i was making was that if they are gonna be sailboats at least make them as fast as possible. the highest level of sailboat racing should have the fastest sailboats in the world. and to keep the race modern these teams should be using cutting edge technology.
Since you don't advocate switching to motors, the technological innovations are a moot point. It's a traditional race, using a traditional type of travel that only exists with a very rich and very select group. Whether or not they use the latest innovations for their sailboats is up to those sponsoring the race, who set up the guidelines for competition...
If the decisions of a sport were left up to the will of the fans, it would be a very screwed up sport...
The America's Cup is half-fought in the courtroom. It dwarfs the amount of litigation seen for virtually any other sport in the world. I exaggerate a bit, but it's not too far from the truth.
That said, the rules of the next race are up to either the cup defender or cup challenger of record - depending on who sues first.
The NFL concussion lawsuits alone in this country in the past few years has dwarfed all America's cup litigation for the past 20.
(This post was last modified: 09-27-2013 08:53 AM by AnnapolisPirate.)
