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If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
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stever20 Online
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Post: #61
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
what fox could do if the Big East wasn't wanting to take a team they wanted to be in- they could say we'll raise the money to x per school if you take team y. To act like fox won't have a major say in the adds is rather clueless. They might not have the say, but they will have a major say.
09-12-2013 03:24 PM
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TheRock Offline
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Post: #62
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:01 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:47 AM)itsmejpt Wrote:  Come on. People seem to be assuming FOX has as much clout as ESPN did. They don't. Fox Sports is a start up and needs the Big East as much as the Big East needs FS. There will be conversations between the two parties, but Fox won't have any real say.

They are far from a silent partner. They are a partner yes, silent no. Fox is going after the Big Ten & NBA next.

But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

I'm not getting your logic about Fox's role. Fox didn't just pay for the Big East, they overpaid for the BE, no other offer was near Fox's. In big business who overpays for something & doesn't expect to run it...
09-12-2013 03:38 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #63
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:38 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:01 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  They are far from a silent partner. They are a partner yes, silent no. Fox is going after the Big Ten & NBA next.

But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

I'm not getting your logic about Fox's role. Fox didn't just pay for the Big East, they overpaid for the BE, no other offer was near Fox's. In big business who overpays for something & doesn't expect to run it...

That's not true. Reports were that ESPN wanted to make an offer but since Fox was the one who got them to leave and offered them so much national airtime they wouldn't even listen to their offer. It wasn't a budding process. ESPN wanted to keep us from Fox.
09-12-2013 03:46 PM
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TheRock Offline
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Post: #64
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what fox could do if the Big East wasn't wanting to take a team they wanted to be in- they could say we'll raise the money to x per school if you take team y. To act like fox won't have a major say in the adds is rather clueless. They might not have the say, but they will have a major say.

That's exactly what Fox did with 10 vs. 12...If i'm not mistaken the deal was always suggested to more profitable to the schools at 12 than at 10, with no option for 9 which was another scenario the C7 wanted to explore at the time as well.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 03:47 PM by TheRock.)
09-12-2013 03:47 PM
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TheRock Offline
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Post: #65
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:38 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

I'm not getting your logic about Fox's role. Fox didn't just pay for the Big East, they overpaid for the BE, no other offer was near Fox's. In big business who overpays for something & doesn't expect to run it...

That's not true. Reports were that ESPN wanted to make an offer but since Fox was the one who got them to leave and offered them so much national airtime they wouldn't even listen to their offer. It wasn't a budding process. ESPN wanted to keep us from Fox.

As much as it pains me to say, but if you're suggesting the BE could have gotten a similar deal from Fox, then the league may have made one of the dumbest moves ever. Why go to a fledgling network unless the money is waaay over the top. Our bball exposure on ESPN was second to none so what angle couldn't ESPN compete on?
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 03:54 PM by TheRock.)
09-12-2013 03:52 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #66
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
that would have been assuming that ESPN would have kept the exposure we would be getting the exact same, which was highly unlikely. Also, as good as our exposure was, the exposure we're getting this year blows that out of the water. I mean, DePaul is getting I think 9 games on FS1 this year in just conference play. Add in their OOC games and they are on FS1 13 times this year. UConn last year by comparison got on 1 of the 3 ESPN channels 14 times. That doesn't even take into account 2 FS2 games along with the 5 CBSSN games. I mean, they're going to be on National TV 20 times.... Would they have gotten that with ESPN? No flipping way.

Oh and btw, Georgetown last year got on National TV 17 times. DePaul is getting on this year 20 times. Enough said about the coverage.
(This post was last modified: 09-12-2013 04:25 PM by stever20.)
09-12-2013 04:24 PM
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Jet915 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:47 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  what fox could do if the Big East wasn't wanting to take a team they wanted to be in- they could say we'll raise the money to x per school if you take team y. To act like fox won't have a major say in the adds is rather clueless. They might not have the say, but they will have a major say.

That's exactly what Fox did with 10 vs. 12...If i'm not mistaken the deal was always suggested to more profitable to the schools at 12 than at 10, with no option for 9 which was another scenario the C7 wanted to explore at the time as well.

If rumors are true, Fox offered 600 for 12 teams instead of 500 for 10 teams. Based on that, didn't seem Fox cared if there was 10 or 12.
09-12-2013 04:56 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #68
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
That rumor never made any bit of sense. Why would fox who would want more volume not offer any incentive at all to go to 12 teams? That never passed the smell test to me at all. Especially with the lack of content that FS1 has currently.
09-12-2013 05:00 PM
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TheRock Offline
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 04:24 PM)stever20 Wrote:  that would have been assuming that ESPN would have kept the exposure we would be getting the exact same, which was highly unlikely. Also, as good as our exposure was, the exposure we're getting this year blows that out of the water. I mean, DePaul is getting I think 9 games on FS1 this year in just conference play. Add in their OOC games and they are on FS1 13 times this year. UConn last year by comparison got on 1 of the 3 ESPN channels 14 times. That doesn't even take into account 2 FS2 games along with the 5 CBSSN games. I mean, they're going to be on National TV 20 times.... Would they have gotten that with ESPN? No flipping way.

Oh and btw, Georgetown last year got on National TV 17 times. DePaul is getting on this year 20 times. Enough said about the coverage.

Agreed, I was just saying BE ESPN exposure would have still been top in 2013-14 if they didn't go with FOX.
09-12-2013 05:17 PM
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NJRedMan Offline
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Post: #70
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:52 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:38 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

I'm not getting your logic about Fox's role. Fox didn't just pay for the Big East, they overpaid for the BE, no other offer was near Fox's. In big business who overpays for something & doesn't expect to run it...

That's not true. Reports were that ESPN wanted to make an offer but since Fox was the one who got them to leave and offered them so much national airtime they wouldn't even listen to their offer. It wasn't a budding process. ESPN wanted to keep us from Fox.

As much as it pains me to say, but if you're suggesting the BE could have gotten a similar deal from Fox, then the league may have made one of the dumbest moves ever. Why go to a fledgling network unless the money is waaay over the top. Our bball exposure on ESPN was second to none so what angle couldn't ESPN compete on?

The old big easts exposure was second to none. Ours would have been second choice it none. Our exposure on ESPN was not going to stay at the same level. The ACC was going to get Big Monday no matter what. That's the WWL's favorite. They kept trashing us while we were under a contract with them. Every year they predicted us to fall off and we didn't.

They wanted us to stay in the AAC so they could pay us peanuts. Fox got us to break away by promising big money and better exposure. They delivered on both but ESPN wanted to counteroffer but couldn't bring the same amount of TV time to the table.
09-12-2013 05:22 PM
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TheRock Offline
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 05:22 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:52 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:46 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:38 PM)TheRock Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

I'm not getting your logic about Fox's role. Fox didn't just pay for the Big East, they overpaid for the BE, no other offer was near Fox's. In big business who overpays for something & doesn't expect to run it...

That's not true. Reports were that ESPN wanted to make an offer but since Fox was the one who got them to leave and offered them so much national airtime they wouldn't even listen to their offer. It wasn't a budding process. ESPN wanted to keep us from Fox.

As much as it pains me to say, but if you're suggesting the BE could have gotten a similar deal from Fox, then the league may have made one of the dumbest moves ever. Why go to a fledgling network unless the money is waaay over the top. Our bball exposure on ESPN was second to none so what angle couldn't ESPN compete on?

The old big easts exposure was second to none. Ours would have been second choice it none. Our exposure on ESPN was not going to stay at the same level. The ACC was going to get Big Monday no matter what. That's the WWL's favorite. They kept trashing us while we were under a contract with them. Every year they predicted us to fall off and we didn't.

They wanted us to stay in the AAC so they could pay us peanuts. Fox got us to break away by promising big money and better exposure. They delivered on both but ESPN wanted to counteroffer but couldn't bring the same amount of TV time to the table.

04-cheers
09-12-2013 06:05 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #72
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:01 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 11:47 AM)itsmejpt Wrote:  Come on. People seem to be assuming FOX has as much clout as ESPN did. They don't. Fox Sports is a start up and needs the Big East as much as the Big East needs FS. There will be conversations between the two parties, but Fox won't have any real say.

They are far from a silent partner. They are a partner yes, silent no. Fox is going after the Big Ten & NBA next.

But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

First, there's absolutely no evidence that the conference ever wanted to go to 12. If you've hot any, post a link. Why should they? There's no benefit for a college basketball conference to be at 12 the way there is for football.

All of the early reports that mentioned 12 indicated that Fox wanted to go to 12. Now that makes sense. Fox needs inventory, so a bigger conference provides them with more inventory.

Of course they couldn't agree on #12. There is no one else within the footprint who fits the institutional profile AND offers a quality hoops program. Numbers 7, 8, and 9 were easy. Not so for 11 and 12. That's why they stopped.

They can always come up with SOMEONE. But is that really what they want? Just anyone? That kind of addition will water down the product. That must be avoided.

I'd prefer that they stay at 10. I think they would too, which is probably why they're dragging their feet. But Fox is driving the bus. They seem to be pushing for 12. So, the presidents offer up candidates like Richmond and St Louis. I can't believe that Fox will find that acceptable. They might be wiling to compromise with VCU and St Louis.

The problem for the Big East is that the longer this takes, the more analysis Fox is going to do. And that means that more doubts will arise about the schools that the BE presidents most prefer.

I'm just saying that in my analysis, the longer that Fox looks at the choices, the more likely they are to push the no brainers on the league even if it costs them more money. Gonzaga and BYU are no brainers. Geography is a problem, but problems exist to be solved. That's the way Fox will see it IMO.
09-12-2013 07:43 PM
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
I really don't see Fox accepting Richmond as long as Shaka Smart is at VCU and doing what he's doing. They're not going to want a team that is a clear as day 2nd fiddle in their own city.
09-12-2013 08:05 PM
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 08:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I really don't see Fox accepting Richmond as long as Shaka Smart is at VCU and doing what he's doing. They're not going to want a team that is a clear as day 2nd fiddle in their own city.

To suggest Richmond is 2nd fiddle in the city of Richmond is an insult to UVA, Virginia Tech, Old Dominion, George Mason and JMU.
09-12-2013 09:27 PM
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 07:43 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:01 PM)BigmanU Wrote:  They are far from a silent partner. They are a partner yes, silent no. Fox is going after the Big Ten & NBA next.

But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

First, there's absolutely no evidence that the conference ever wanted to go to 12. If you've hot any, post a link. Why should they? There's no benefit for a college basketball conference to be at 12 the way there is for football.

All of the early reports that mentioned 12 indicated that Fox wanted to go to 12. Now that makes sense. Fox needs inventory, so a bigger conference provides them with more inventory.

Of course they couldn't agree on #12. There is no one else within the footprint who fits the institutional profile AND offers a quality hoops program. Numbers 7, 8, and 9 were easy. Not so for 11 and 12. That's why they stopped.

They can always come up with SOMEONE. But is that really what they want? Just anyone? That kind of addition will water down the product. That must be avoided.

I'd prefer that they stay at 10. I think they would too, which is probably why they're dragging their feet. But Fox is driving the bus. They seem to be pushing for 12. So, the presidents offer up candidates like Richmond and St Louis. I can't believe that Fox will find that acceptable. They might be wiling to compromise with VCU and St Louis.

The problem for the Big East is that the longer this takes, the more analysis Fox is going to do. And that means that more doubts will arise about the schools that the BE presidents most prefer.

I'm just saying that in my analysis, the longer that Fox looks at the choices, the more likely they are to push the no brainers on the league even if it costs them more money. Gonzaga and BYU are no brainers. Geography is a problem, but problems exist to be solved. That's the way Fox will see it IMO.

i think that most of the expansion reports "suggested" the C7 might go as high as 12. if that was the official stance of the schools i dont know. i do know that quite a few of the presidents and ad's have commented at one time or another that expansion wasn't over
09-12-2013 09:51 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #76
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-12-2013 09:51 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 07:43 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:14 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  But that doesn't mean they are making conference decisions.

It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

First, there's absolutely no evidence that the conference ever wanted to go to 12. If you've hot any, post a link. Why should they? There's no benefit for a college basketball conference to be at 12 the way there is for football.

All of the early reports that mentioned 12 indicated that Fox wanted to go to 12. Now that makes sense. Fox needs inventory, so a bigger conference provides them with more inventory.

Of course they couldn't agree on #12. There is no one else within the footprint who fits the institutional profile AND offers a quality hoops program. Numbers 7, 8, and 9 were easy. Not so for 11 and 12. That's why they stopped.

They can always come up with SOMEONE. But is that really what they want? Just anyone? That kind of addition will water down the product. That must be avoided.

I'd prefer that they stay at 10. I think they would too, which is probably why they're dragging their feet. But Fox is driving the bus. They seem to be pushing for 12. So, the presidents offer up candidates like Richmond and St Louis. I can't believe that Fox will find that acceptable. They might be wiling to compromise with VCU and St Louis.

The problem for the Big East is that the longer this takes, the more analysis Fox is going to do. And that means that more doubts will arise about the schools that the BE presidents most prefer.

I'm just saying that in my analysis, the longer that Fox looks at the choices, the more likely they are to push the no brainers on the league even if it costs them more money. Gonzaga and BYU are no brainers. Geography is a problem, but problems exist to be solved. That's the way Fox will see it IMO.

i think that most of the expansion reports "suggested" the C7 might go as high as 12. if that was the official stance of the schools i dont know. i do know that quite a few of the presidents and ad's have commented at one time or another that expansion wasn't over

Yes,that's true.but from everything I read,the impetus for that was coming from Fox, not from the C7.

The point is that if the push is coming from Fox, then Fox has some idea about what they're looking for in #11 and #12. I can't believe they just want any old adds to get to the number. I have to think that they will want some quality so there's enough enough interest to make those games revenue generators and worth broadcasting.

If the conference is willing to go to 12 in order to meet Fox's requirement, then I would also think they'd be willing to cooperate with Fox in selecting new members that meet Fox's needs.
09-13-2013 09:41 AM
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RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-13-2013 09:41 AM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 09:51 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 07:43 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 03:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  
(09-12-2013 01:27 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  It doesn't? What do you think it means?

Fox doesn't have to make conference decisions to be a factor any more than any buyer gets to make product decisions. Fox does get to say what they're willing to pay for and what they're not.

The Big East can make its own decisions and watch the Fox money decline and eventually disappear if they ignore Fox's input. If they want to keep the gravy train rolling, they better give Fox a product it can sell. If they water down the conference with ill advised additions, they will reduce its value and will diminish Fox's interest.

From early reports last December, it seemed that Fox was the driving force to go to 12. So, if the Big East is expanding only at Fox's behest, don't you think that Fox will have something to say about what kind of additions they'll be willing to pay for and what they won't?

Dude, having input is not the same as calling the shots.

Get over the fact that your idea isn't realistic. The Fox money isn't declining or disappearing. The conference always wanted to go to 12 but couldn't agree on who #12 would be. Fox has known all about this from the get go.

First, there's absolutely no evidence that the conference ever wanted to go to 12. If you've hot any, post a link. Why should they? There's no benefit for a college basketball conference to be at 12 the way there is for football.

All of the early reports that mentioned 12 indicated that Fox wanted to go to 12. Now that makes sense. Fox needs inventory, so a bigger conference provides them with more inventory.

Of course they couldn't agree on #12. There is no one else within the footprint who fits the institutional profile AND offers a quality hoops program. Numbers 7, 8, and 9 were easy. Not so for 11 and 12. That's why they stopped.

They can always come up with SOMEONE. But is that really what they want? Just anyone? That kind of addition will water down the product. That must be avoided.

I'd prefer that they stay at 10. I think they would too, which is probably why they're dragging their feet. But Fox is driving the bus. They seem to be pushing for 12. So, the presidents offer up candidates like Richmond and St Louis. I can't believe that Fox will find that acceptable. They might be wiling to compromise with VCU and St Louis.

The problem for the Big East is that the longer this takes, the more analysis Fox is going to do. And that means that more doubts will arise about the schools that the BE presidents most prefer.

I'm just saying that in my analysis, the longer that Fox looks at the choices, the more likely they are to push the no brainers on the league even if it costs them more money. Gonzaga and BYU are no brainers. Geography is a problem, but problems exist to be solved. That's the way Fox will see it IMO.

i think that most of the expansion reports "suggested" the C7 might go as high as 12. if that was the official stance of the schools i dont know. i do know that quite a few of the presidents and ad's have commented at one time or another that expansion wasn't over

Yes,that's true.but from everything I read,the impetus for that was coming from Fox, not from the C7.

The point is that if the push is coming from Fox, then Fox has some idea about what they're looking for in #11 and #12. I can't believe they just want any old adds to get to the number. I have to think that they will want some quality so there's enough enough interest to make those games revenue generators and worth broadcasting.

If the conference is willing to go to 12 in order to meet Fox's requirement, then I would also think they'd be willing to cooperate with Fox in selecting new members that meet Fox's needs.

Wait, you're saying since we have no quotes from the school presidents the push MUST be coming from Fox? AD's must work for Fox then. How about Val Ackerman? She is the direct mouthpiece for the presidents. She must also be a Fox exec.

Where is the quote from Fox that they want us to expand to 12 instead of staying at 10? That one doesn't exist but you gloss over that because it doesn't go well with your narrative.

Oh and there is a #11 that fits with us institutionally, is in our geographic footprint and has on the court success. Saint Louis. Saying no one good enough is in our footprint is not accurate at all.
09-13-2013 11:20 AM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #78
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
(09-13-2013 11:20 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Wait, you're saying since we have no quotes from the school presidents the push MUST be coming from Fox? AD's must work for Fox then. How about Val Ackerman? She is the direct mouthpiece for the presidents. She must also be a Fox exec.

Where is the quote from Fox that they want us to expand to 12 instead of staying at 10? That one doesn't exist but you gloss over that because it doesn't go well with your narrative.

Oh and there is a #11 that fits with us institutionally, is in our geographic footprint and has on the court success. Saint Louis. Saying no one good enough is in our footprint is not accurate at all.

Redman, I really do enjoy the back and forth with you. I respect your opinion. If I didn't I wouldn't respond to it but do me a favor, if you're going to paraphrase me, don't put words in my mouth.

I never said that the push must be coming from Fox because we don't have quotes from the presidents. I'm saying that my recollection of articles I read last December is that the reports attributed the interest in going to 12 to Fox. Do you remember it differently?

My recall isn't perfect. And the reporters may have gotten it wrong. Or their sources may not have been as reliable as they thought.. So, I can't claim it as an absolute fact. It's just the way I understand it to be from what I've read.

Yes, St Louis could be #11. Yes, they are a great institutional fit and they are within the footprint. Have they had on court success? Yes, but just not enough for me. I guess that's where we disagree.

I'd be okay with St Louis. They're not a terrible pick. But they haven't shown me enough to convince me that they can compete at this level. They've been in the A10 for 8 years and have only been better than a .500 team 4 of those 8 years. They were in the MVC the year before that and had a losing in conference record that season. That's 9 years in mid major conferences with only 4 winning seasons in conference to show for it. Before that, they were in CUSA. In their 9 years in CUSA, they only had 4 winning seasons in conference.

So, despite their success the past couple of seasons, their history has not been encouraging - winning records in only 8 of the past 18 years in mid major conferences. If they couldn't sustain a winning program in mid major conferences, why should anyone believe that they are worth taking a gamble on for membership in a much tougher conference?

I might feel differently if Majerus were still alive. I would bet on him being able to continue to develop the program and would hope that in the Big East, they could build on what he started. Vt unfortunately for all of us, he's gone.

Ultimately the question is not what St Louis is or might be, but what the Big East wants to be.If the want to be a power conference, then they have to bring in power programs. If you think St Louis qualifies, fine. I don't.

OTOH, if the Big East wants to simply be an affiliation of Catholic schools or similar and that's it, then they'll take St Louis. I think their choice will tell us all a lot about what they want to be and what their standards are (basketball standards obviously).
09-13-2013 01:00 PM
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Post: #79
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
Melky, they didn't have a layover year in the MVC. They went straight from C-USA to A-10.

I really think Majerus passing away was a huge factor. I REALLY think if he had still been around last year, SLU is in the Big East right now.
09-13-2013 01:15 PM
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Post: #80
RE: If the Big East really wants to go big time . . .
Yeah, SLU went from the Great Midwest to C-USA to the A-10.

The Valley was before all of that.

No one can be sure about Coach Majerus' presence and if it had an effect on the proceedings, but the man was incredible at coaching whatever talent he had.
09-13-2013 01:41 PM
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