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(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Does the DART go to the Western? Seems like that would be a pretty useful stop, considering it already goes to 5 Points.

(09-03-2013 10:24 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Does the DART go to the Western? Seems like that would be a pretty useful stop, considering it already goes to 5 Points.

There's a bus stop outside of it, but I'm not sure what busses they are anymore since they've changed some of the routes.

(09-03-2013 10:29 AM)demiveeman Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:24 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Does the DART go to the Western? Seems like that would be a pretty useful stop, considering it already goes to 5 Points.

There's a bus stop outside of it, but I'm not sure what busses they are anymore since they've changed some of the routes.

I suppose there's also a bus that goes to the Pig on Clairmont, too (at least there was when I lived next to the Pig). If you're downtown you could catch a real non-DART bus at the terminal, but who knows if you have to spend 20 minutes riding out to Avondale before it gets to Highland

(09-03-2013 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:34 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 12:17 PM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  A lot of truth there. I live on 2nd Ave N, and we have to go to the Publix on Montclair (2-3 miles). There is a small market in the neighborhood (Mamantoes, which is good for a few things).

Depending on which store I go to I have to drive 5 to 8 miles. When I lived on south side with a two block walk to two different grocery stores I still drove most if the time. How often do you only buy two bags of groceries?

Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

I think part of the point of having a market within walking distance (especially if you were working downtown within walking distance) is that you visit the store much more often. How does it work in Manhattan?

Groceries get delivered by the store. If you can afford to live there, you don't blink at a grocery delivery bill.

(09-03-2013 10:32 AM)BlazerPhil Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:34 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 12:17 PM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  A lot of truth there. I live on 2nd Ave N, and we have to go to the Publix on Montclair (2-3 miles). There is a small market in the neighborhood (Mamantoes, which is good for a few things).

Depending on which store I go to I have to drive 5 to 8 miles. When I lived on south side with a two block walk to two different grocery stores I still drove most if the time. How often do you only buy two bags of groceries?

Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

I think part of the point of having a market within walking distance (especially if you were working downtown within walking distance) is that you visit the store much more often. How does it work in Manhattan?

Groceries get delivered by the store. If you can afford to live there, you don't blink at a grocery delivery bill.

I'm sure that happens, probably a lot in Manhattan, but not every urban dwelling American gets their groceries delivered. Probably not even close to a majority.

(09-03-2013 10:34 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:32 AM)BlazerPhil Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:34 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  Depending on which store I go to I have to drive 5 to 8 miles. When I lived on south side with a two block walk to two different grocery stores I still drove most if the time. How often do you only buy two bags of groceries?

Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

I think part of the point of having a market within walking distance (especially if you were working downtown within walking distance) is that you visit the store much more often. How does it work in Manhattan?

Groceries get delivered by the store. If you can afford to live there, you don't blink at a grocery delivery bill.

I'm sure that happens, probably a lot in Manhattan, but not every urban dwelling American gets their groceries delivered. Probably not even close to a majority.

In Washington DC, my condo complex had grocery carts for all of us to use. Bring your own bike lock. Harris Teeter was 4 block away. Costco was 3.

(09-03-2013 10:38 AM)BlazerPhil Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:34 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:32 AM)BlazerPhil Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:54 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

I think part of the point of having a market within walking distance (especially if you were working downtown within walking distance) is that you visit the store much more often. How does it work in Manhattan?

Groceries get delivered by the store. If you can afford to live there, you don't blink at a grocery delivery bill.

I'm sure that happens, probably a lot in Manhattan, but not every urban dwelling American gets their groceries delivered. Probably not even close to a majority.

In Washington DC, my condo complex had grocery carts for all of us to use. Bring your own bike lock. Harris Teeter was 3 block away. Costco was 4.

That's what I was talking about earlier..........I've seen people do that before (although it does look kind of funny).

(09-03-2013 10:32 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:29 AM)demiveeman Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:24 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Does the DART go to the Western? Seems like that would be a pretty useful stop, considering it already goes to 5 Points.

There's a bus stop outside of it, but I'm not sure what busses they are anymore since they've changed some of the routes.

I suppose there's also a bus that goes to the Pig on Clairmont, too (at least there was when I lived next to the Pig). If you're downtown you could catch a real non-DART bus at the terminal, but who knows if you have to spend 20 minutes riding out to Avondale before it gets to Highland

That's not the problem. It's the 2 hours you have to wait because the bus broke down before you take the 20 minute ride around Avondale before it gets to Highland.

(09-03-2013 10:03 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:55 AM)demiveeman Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:34 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 12:17 PM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  A lot of truth there. I live on 2nd Ave N, and we have to go to the Publix on Montclair (2-3 miles). There is a small market in the neighborhood (Mamantoes, which is good for a few things).

Depending on which store I go to I have to drive 5 to 8 miles. When I lived on south side with a two block walk to two different grocery stores I still drove most if the time. How often do you only buy two bags of groceries?

Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

Except anybody that lives in any other major metro with downtown loft living will tell you, you don't buy groceries in a month supply like everyone else. You go once or twice a week.

Have you guys ever been to any other major city in the US?

You make a good point. That's why I like having Mamanoes nearby.....get a few items here and there (same with Family Dollar). Downtown Birmingham is kind of jinxed on public transit though. Most real cities that I have lived in/visited had a real transit systems that were clean and worked.

Most real cities don't have to buck the "head wind" of a state that thinks of public transportation as "minority only" transport. The MAX asked the state to provide the money needed to get large matching funds from Uncle Sam for new buses, but the state legislature refused (much like they are now resisting funds for increased Mediaid) so MAX has only been able to buy a few at a time.

Keep in mind that one reason the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott was effective was that the "majority folks" refused to ride the buses even when no "minority folks" were using them. This has not been a factor for public transportation outside the "Old South", but apparently remains alive and well in Alabama.

(09-03-2013 12:58 PM)BAMANBLAZERFAN Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:03 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:55 AM)demiveeman Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:38 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 09:34 AM)bladhmadh Wrote:  Depending on which store I go to I have to drive 5 to 8 miles. When I lived on south side with a two block walk to two different grocery stores I still drove most if the time. How often do you only buy two bags of groceries?

Yep, that's just it. Unless you roll a grocery cart back to your loft/apartment/condo, you would still need a car when you buy full groceries.

Except anybody that lives in any other major metro with downtown loft living will tell you, you don't buy groceries in a month supply like everyone else. You go once or twice a week.

Have you guys ever been to any other major city in the US?

You make a good point. That's why I like having Mamanoes nearby.....get a few items here and there (same with Family Dollar). Downtown Birmingham is kind of jinxed on public transit though. Most real cities that I have lived in/visited had a real transit systems that were clean and worked.

Most real cities don't have to buck the "head wind" of a state that thinks of public transportation as "minority only" transport. The MAX asked the state to provide the money needed to get large matching funds from Uncle Sam for new buses, but the state legislature refused (much like they are now resisting funds for increased Mediaid) so MAX has only been able to buy a few at a time.

Keep in mind that one reason the 1955 Montgomery Bus Boycott was effective was that the "majority folks" refused to ride the buses even when no "minority folks" were using them. This has not been a factor for public transportation outside the "Old South", but apparently remains alive and well in Alabama.

I agree 100%...............Alabama is still in the dark ages where public transit is concerned.

Walgreens will probably go downtown soon.

I live in a city with over 10,000,000 people. I live in a flat and walk most everywhere. Grocery store is 5 blocks away and I can even order online and they will deliver. We also have over 230,000 taxis - yeah... that number is accurate. It means that we have cheap taxis when we need them and walk most everywhere else. We do have a small car and a tank of gas lasts me about 6 weeks :)

There was a CVS downtown for a while, then CVS closed and a local pharmacy was there and then it closed. That was before 2008, so there's a chance a major chain could come back. There's a Walgreens near Vulcan that is nearly a grocery store inside. If they opened one of those I think you'd be pretty close. Just missing a place to get meats and produce

(09-03-2013 05:17 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  There was a CVS downtown for a while, then CVS closed and a local pharmacy was there and then it closed. That was before 2008, so there's a chance a major chain could come back. There's a Walgreens near Vulcan that is nearly a grocery store inside. If they opened one of those I think you'd be pretty close. Just missing a place to get meats and produce

Not quite downtown per se, but the new Vittoria restaurant in Pepper Place is also a butcher shop.

(09-03-2013 08:01 PM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 05:17 PM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  There was a CVS downtown for a while, then CVS closed and a local pharmacy was there and then it closed. That was before 2008, so there's a chance a major chain could come back. There's a Walgreens near Vulcan that is nearly a grocery store inside. If they opened one of those I think you'd be pretty close. Just missing a place to get meats and produce

Not quite downtown per se, but the new Vittoria restaurant in Pepper Place is also a butcher shop.

And of course there's the Pepper Place Farmer's Market, too. Its location reinforces the need to improve downtown transit

There are vacant storefronts downtown that could be adapted for a grocery store and some vacant lots where such could be built from the ground up. The question seems to be at what point the downtown population has grown to the point where such a project is economically feasible? You not only have to have the people, but the people who "cook in" rather than "eating out". What are the "outside grilling" regulations for downtown loft / condo dwellings?

(09-03-2013 10:24 AM)mixduptransistor Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Does the DART go to the Western? Seems like that would be a pretty useful stop, considering it already goes to 5 Points.

Far as I know, they don't....I was pretty much a "transit mouse" for about 3 years before I couldn't take it(the constant breakdowns, the no-shows or late arrivals, rude, obnoxious drivers, unsafe, uncomfortable riding conditions, etc.) anymore and bought another car. Route numbers 12, 31 and 280 go by the Western Supermarket regularly. If you have that much time to kill waiting for one to show up and take you there. Speaking from personal experience, now.

(09-02-2013 09:59 PM)hooverblazer Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 09:40 PM)demiveeman Wrote:  

(09-02-2013 08:58 PM)hooverblazer Wrote:  The grocery store is an overblown thing IMO. If you live in Hoover and want groceries you have to get in your car and drive 5-10 minutes just like you do if you live downtown.

Could see a "Walmart Neighborhood Market" happen.

To be a "legitimate" metro downtown/loft district, either Birmingham needs to get things like grocery stores downtown, or they need to serious revamp their transportation system.

I think it's pretty obvious which one is more likely to happen first.

The goal would be to not NEED a car.

I would agree on the Walmart neighborhood market. That is feasible and could work.

I agree as well. There's one that just recently opened up on Lorna Road where a cluster of old apartments used to be...They are living large over there and they've raised the life force of that part of the neighborhood, too.

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Still would love to see a streetcar line or light rail thruout that area.

(09-04-2013 05:17 PM)Matrix Wrote:  

(09-03-2013 10:08 AM)Bham Blazer Wrote:  I will add that DART is a lot better than nothing though.

Still would love to see a streetcar line or light rail thruout that area.

I agree 100%.........that would be GREAT for that area!