(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 11:50 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-23-2013 11:20 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Well I guess so. They were charter members of the conference that founded the Big 8. In a world in which there is no Midwestern conference Missouri being one of a few true border states could fit well with either of the Big 10 or the SEC, but would not be a completely natural fit with either.

I guess one could even make an argument that College Station Texas is not in the geographical Southeast, however, we do both have a star on that other flag for historical purposes of a Southern culture...

Absolutely. My remarks weren't to disparage Missouri's presence in the SEC, I was happy we got them. They did fight on the side of the South as did the Republic of Texas. I was merely testifying to the cultural diversity that exists within that state today. Because of that they can fit anywhere, but just not comfortably for their entire population base.

As has been discussed on here recently, Virginia is in the same boat. Kentucky also has it in the Louisville area. Border states will always tend to have that cultural overlap.

Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Just to add on, east Tennessee (generally the area that goes by the eastern time zone), would have likely become its own state if the North had swept in sooner. It is my understanding that the Tennessee legislature voted three times on secession, and all three times west and middle voted in favor, and east always voted against. In general, west and middle Tennessee are farmlands, and the eastern part is mountainous, so the economics of slavery/state's rights did not affect them in the same manner as the rest of the state. They would have done just as West Virginia did to Virginia, which is split. How interesting would it have been to have a state or states extending right down to northeast Georgia that was not Confederate. Even today, West Virginia, eastern KY and TN, western VA and NC, and northeast GA form their own very distinctive subculture within the South. For all the lumping together that people tend to do by referring to all of us as "The South", there are many subcultures that may surprise those that have never visited or really known a variety of people from the region.

(08-27-2013 02:06 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  Just to add on, east Tennessee (generally the area that goes by the eastern time zone), would have likely become its own state if the North had swept in sooner. It is my understanding that the Tennessee legislature voted three times on secession, and all three times west and middle voted in favor, and east always voted against. In general, west and middle Tennessee are farmlands, and the eastern part is mountainous, so the economics of slavery/state's rights did not affect them in the same manner as the rest of the state. They would have done just as West Virginia did to Virginia, which is split. How interesting would it have been to have a state or states extending right down to northeast Georgia that was not Confederate. Even today, West Virginia, eastern KY and TN, western VA and NC, and northeast GA form their own very distinctive subculture within the South. For all the lumping together that people tend to do by referring to all of us as "The South", there are many subcultures that may surprise those that have never visited or really known a variety of people from the region.

How true. The part of Missouri my family came from was in the Ozarks close to Arkansas. Completely different culture from the folks in the flat farm lands of Northern Missouri. Looks a lot lot like it does here in South Mississippi and the folks are just about the same too. The split is basically along the Missouri River and I-70..

(08-27-2013 01:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 11:50 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  I guess one could even make an argument that College Station Texas is not in the geographical Southeast, however, we do both have a star on that other flag for historical purposes of a Southern culture...

Absolutely. My remarks weren't to disparage Missouri's presence in the SEC, I was happy we got them. They did fight on the side of the South as did the Republic of Texas. I was merely testifying to the cultural diversity that exists within that state today. Because of that they can fit anywhere, but just not comfortably for their entire population base.

As has been discussed on here recently, Virginia is in the same boat. Kentucky also has it in the Louisville area. Border states will always tend to have that cultural overlap.

Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Not unique actually

Texas, Vermont and Hawaii were all independent nations before becoming US States. California sometimes gets included in that but the California Republic was more of a movement than a actual nation since it never established a formal government or was recognized by any other nation.

(08-27-2013 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:01 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Absolutely. My remarks weren't to disparage Missouri's presence in the SEC, I was happy we got them. They did fight on the side of the South as did the Republic of Texas. I was merely testifying to the cultural diversity that exists within that state today. Because of that they can fit anywhere, but just not comfortably for their entire population base.

As has been discussed on here recently, Virginia is in the same boat. Kentucky also has it in the Louisville area. Border states will always tend to have that cultural overlap.

Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Not unique actually

Texas, Vermont and Hawaii were all independent nations before becoming US States. California sometimes gets included in that but the California Republic was more of a movement than a actual nation since it never established a formal government or was recognized by any other nation.

I knew about Hawaii of course, but didn't realize that Vermont had been and independent entity. There are some special provisions in Texas's statehood agreements though if memory servers me correctly. And another point of clarification does Texas still refer to itself as the Republic of Texas, or just as state?

(08-27-2013 06:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As has been discussed on here recently, Virginia is in the same boat. Kentucky also has it in the Louisville area. Border states will always tend to have that cultural overlap.

Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Not unique actually

Texas, Vermont and Hawaii were all independent nations before becoming US States. California sometimes gets included in that but the California Republic was more of a movement than a actual nation since it never established a formal government or was recognized by any other nation.

I knew about Hawaii of course, but didn't realize that Vermont had been and independent entity. There are some special provisions in Texas's statehood agreements though if memory servers me correctly. And another point of clarification does Texas still refer to itself as the Republic of Texas, or just as state?

Vermont too has plenty of folks that wouldn't mind being Independent again. Of course their opinion is pretty ludicrous. Texas could at least survive on it's own. It could have it's own self contained economy as well as it's own trade deals and even it's own military. Vermont......they might maple syrup you to death if they had to.

(08-27-2013 06:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 12:30 PM)bigblueblindness Wrote:  As has been discussed on here recently, Virginia is in the same boat. Kentucky also has it in the Louisville area. Border states will always tend to have that cultural overlap.

Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Not unique actually

Texas, Vermont and Hawaii were all independent nations before becoming US States. California sometimes gets included in that but the California Republic was more of a movement than a actual nation since it never established a formal government or was recognized by any other nation.

I knew about Hawaii of course, but didn't realize that Vermont had been and independent entity. There are some special provisions in Texas's statehood agreements though if memory servers me correctly. And another point of clarification does Texas still refer to itself as the Republic of Texas, or just as state?

Texas does not formally refer to itself as the Republic of Texas but obviously its a popular nickname used by many different groups and organizations.

The special provision you are probably referring to is the clause to allow internal division into 5 separate states which was never utilized.

(08-28-2013 04:40 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 06:59 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 06:09 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:32 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:06 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  Oh I know you were not jabbing at Missouri, Jr. Many people just do not know how these state cultures came to be and how it happened. A federal garrison at Jefferson Barracks in St Louis marched on the state capitol and forced out the elected state government. Texas had been a state for a while before the war. They were also the last to rejoin the union I believe... Kentucky also had a star on the battle flag. Missouri and Kentucky were considered to be occupied Confederate States by the government in Richmond. I learned this while visiting Beauvoir in Biloxi, which was Jeff Davis' last home and is now a historical site. Lots of civil war artifacts that interest me. They have a fall muster and re-inactment here every year.

An aside here that perhaps 10th can clear up, but Texas still referred to themselves an a Republic after they became a state and their's is the most unique statehood of the 50 in that regard.

Not unique actually

Texas, Vermont and Hawaii were all independent nations before becoming US States. California sometimes gets included in that but the California Republic was more of a movement than a actual nation since it never established a formal government or was recognized by any other nation.

I knew about Hawaii of course, but didn't realize that Vermont had been and independent entity. There are some special provisions in Texas's statehood agreements though if memory servers me correctly. And another point of clarification does Texas still refer to itself as the Republic of Texas, or just as state?

Texas does not formally refer to itself as the Republic of Texas but obviously its a popular nickname used by many different groups and organizations.

The special provision you are probably referring to is the clause to allow internal division into 5 separate states which was never utilized.

Thanks. Congratulations to A&M for clearing the cloud before the season starts. The whole mess was a media creation and in my estimation the only thing Manziel needs to learn from this is that for the next three years he has to keep his personal life a bit more private. Good luck with the season 10th, except of course when Auburn arrives in College Station.

I agree, he seems to be suffering from 'Zimmerman Syndrome" where so many people are baffled by his (mostly) innocence because half of them had already convicted him in their own mind out of their own prejudice and bias and the other half had only heard the agenda driven media version of the story that had nothing to do with the actual legality of the situation and was driven by hearsay and rumor and outright fabrications purely for rating and clicks.

(08-29-2013 10:40 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I agree, he seems to be suffering from 'Zimmerman Syndrome" where so many people are baffled by his (mostly) innocence because half of them had already convicted him in their own mind out of their own prejudice and bias and the other half had only heard the agenda driven media version of the story that had nothing to do with the actual legality of the situation and was driven by hearsay and rumor and outright fabrications purely for rating and clicks.

Personally I cant wait for the day when a defendant that is exonerated goes and sues some of these media folks. It is absolutely bull**** that the media can propagate public trials like they do. It is unconstitutional what the media has slowly done to this country.

(08-29-2013 10:58 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 10:40 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I agree, he seems to be suffering from 'Zimmerman Syndrome" where so many people are baffled by his (mostly) innocence because half of them had already convicted him in their own mind out of their own prejudice and bias and the other half had only heard the agenda driven media version of the story that had nothing to do with the actual legality of the situation and was driven by hearsay and rumor and outright fabrications purely for rating and clicks.

Personally I cant wait for the day when a defendant that is exonerated goes and sues some of these media folks. It is absolutely bull**** that the media can propagate public trials like they do. It is unconstitutional what the media has slowly done to this country.

It's right out of Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451". Camera's are everywhere. During an alert all residents must be on lock down. The suspect's guilt is displayed on television, and the suspect always resists arrest and gets killed. But, nobody complains because the guilt was clearly displayed on television. And all of that including flat screen TV's are in his book which is now well over 50 years old. It's a good read and considering where we are, scary.

(08-29-2013 01:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 10:58 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 10:40 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I agree, he seems to be suffering from 'Zimmerman Syndrome" where so many people are baffled by his (mostly) innocence because half of them had already convicted him in their own mind out of their own prejudice and bias and the other half had only heard the agenda driven media version of the story that had nothing to do with the actual legality of the situation and was driven by hearsay and rumor and outright fabrications purely for rating and clicks.

Personally I cant wait for the day when a defendant that is exonerated goes and sues some of these media folks. It is absolutely bull**** that the media can propagate public trials like they do. It is unconstitutional what the media has slowly done to this country.

It's right out of Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451". Camera's are everywhere. During an alert all residents must be on lock down. The suspect's guilt is displayed on television, and the suspect always resists arrest and gets killed. But, nobody complains because the guilt was clearly displayed on television. And all of that including flat screen TV's are in his book which is now well over 50 years old. It's a good read and considering where we are, scary.

Don't forget "A Brave New World".

(08-29-2013 01:43 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 01:08 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 10:58 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(08-29-2013 10:40 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I agree, he seems to be suffering from 'Zimmerman Syndrome" where so many people are baffled by his (mostly) innocence because half of them had already convicted him in their own mind out of their own prejudice and bias and the other half had only heard the agenda driven media version of the story that had nothing to do with the actual legality of the situation and was driven by hearsay and rumor and outright fabrications purely for rating and clicks.

Personally I cant wait for the day when a defendant that is exonerated goes and sues some of these media folks. It is absolutely bull**** that the media can propagate public trials like they do. It is unconstitutional what the media has slowly done to this country.

It's right out of Ray Bradbury's "Fahrenheit 451". Camera's are everywhere. During an alert all residents must be on lock down. The suspect's guilt is displayed on television, and the suspect always resists arrest and gets killed. But, nobody complains because the guilt was clearly displayed on television. And all of that including flat screen TV's are in his book which is now well over 50 years old. It's a good read and considering where we are, scary.

Don't forget "A Brave New World".

Yeah, that book and "Animal Farm" ought to fairly well cover it.

I also recommend an old true story in a book about "The Pumpkin Papers" called "Witness" by Whitaker Chambers who was a communist spy that turned informant.