I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

2) Middle of the pack programs who have winning seasons more often than not will mostly no longer enjoy that. If you're winning 6-8 games a year and counting on G5 OOC to get there more often than not, you're in trouble.

3) Bottom tier programs become the new body bag programs. Indiana may not win many games, but most years they can believe they have a shot at 6 wins. Over the last ten years, Indiana has 38 wins, of those 38, 22 came against G5 or FCS. Programs like Indiana will have no interest in doing that and if they're forced to, tthey'll be able to demand any amount of money they want in payday games, they won't be bought for $750k, I'll tell you that much.


If I were a P5 fan or administrator and a proponent of the split, I'd start making incremental moves regulating scheduling so we could move towards the split and the ramifications from a scheduling standpoint incrementally. Get all 5 leagues to band together and pass the bylaws. Spread them out over a decade or so...

Step 1: end scheduling FCS games.(B1G already doing this)
Step 2: put a cap on paycheck amounts for buy games($1 million) and allow only 2 a paycheck games a year
Step 3: put a cap on inequitable schedule arrangements at 2-1
Step 4: allow only 1 paycheck game a year

By taking these steps over time, they'll end up playing each other more and more and us less and less. Florida may not want to sign a 1-1 with Ohio State or a 2-2 with Oklahoma, but they'd sooner do that than they would sign a 2-1 with 99% of the G5.

Once all the moves set in, taking that final leap into the break away, which in my opinion would require handing over scheduling to some outside entity would just be a natural progression, rather than ripping off the bandaid.

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

2) Middle of the pack programs who have winning seasons more often than not will mostly no longer enjoy that. If you're winning 6-8 games a year and counting on G5 OOC to get there more often than not, you're in trouble.

3) Bottom tier programs become the new body bag programs. Indiana may not win many games, but most years they can believe they have a shot at 6 wins. Over the last ten years, Indiana has 38 wins, of those 38, 22 came against G5 or FCS. Programs like Indiana will have no interest in doing that and if they're forced to, tthey'll be able to demand any amount of money they want in payday games, they won't be bought for $750k, I'll tell you that much.


If I were a P5 fan or administrator and a proponent of the split, I'd start making incremental moves regulating scheduling so we could move towards the split and the ramifications from a scheduling standpoint incrementally. Get all 5 leagues to band together and pass the bylaws. Spread them out over a decade or so...

Step 1: end scheduling FCS games.(B1G already doing this)
Step 2: put a cap on paycheck amounts for buy games($1 million) and allow only 2 a paycheck games a year
Step 3: put a cap on inequitable schedule arrangements at 2-1
Step 4: allow only 1 paycheck game a year

By taking these steps over time, they'll end up playing each other more and more and us less and less. Florida may not want to sign a 1-1 with Ohio State or a 2-2 with Oklahoma, but they'd sooner do that than they would sign a 2-1 with 99% of the G5.

Once all the moves set in, taking that final leap into the break away, which in my opinion would require handing over scheduling to some outside entity would just be a natural progression, rather than ripping off the bandaid.

Pretty much my thoughts. The P5 wants their home games and no coach will want to risk his job by losing more games. The real discussion is how the NCAA is governed and the FCS voting on FBS matters.

We don't need to vote yes on the pay for play issue though just to placate the BCS P5's.
It has way too many fallacies in the proposal.

There are all kind of issues that come up with the paid players. If that ever happens it will be a very sad day for college sports and the end of it as we have known it.

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

Because chances are that G5 schools would boycott games against P5 schools if that happened.

(08-03-2013 03:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

Because chances are that G5 schools would boycott games against P5 schools if that happened.

Oh please. Money makes whores of us all.

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

What do you mean pay lower level schools? You're only currently allowed to count one FCS game towards bowl eligibility, if they split away, are they going to be able to then go down two levels to schedule a FCS school? If the G5 becomes the new defacto FCS are they going to be able to count more than one G5 game a year?

(08-03-2013 03:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

Because chances are that G5 schools would boycott games against P5 schools if that happened.

Oh please. Money makes whores of us all.

You're both right, some schools will boycott the P5 after pushing us aside, but as long as the practice is allowed, there will be G5 willing to play paycheck games, but as I said in my previous post, if the scheduling is handled the way it is now, if this is a true split, P5 schools should only be able to schedule(or count anyhow) one G5 a year.

(08-03-2013 03:52 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

What do you mean pay lower level schools? You're only currently allowed to count one FCS game towards bowl eligibility, if they split away, are they going to be able to then go down two levels to schedule a FCS school? If the G5 becomes the new defacto FCS are they going to be able to count more than one G5 game a year?

I figure p5 will do whatever they can to optimize revenue and control. Playing D2 in basketball is allowed and practiced - I'm sure P5 would still try to bribe G5 out of this alleged solidarity not to play up if it suited their end goals. And i don't see ALL of G5 resisting the carrot for long.

I agree with you that the split probably won't happen - but I don't see the scheduling issue being a dead cinch as the impediment.

(08-03-2013 03:58 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:50 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:48 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 03:23 PM)WinstonTheWolf Wrote:  

(08-03-2013 01:54 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I'm a firm believer that the P5/G5 split isn't happening, I've been outspoken on this for well over a year now. Quick summary:

1) Elite programs won't actually want to give up 7 or 8 home games a year and being able to schedule like Florida who hasn't left the state OOC since 1991.

What will keep them from doing what they are doing now by paying big money to lower level schools? It happens in basketball.

Some of them play 9 conference games already - so add a home/home and 2 G5 money games and you only have 1 fewer home game for many of them.

Because chances are that G5 schools would boycott games against P5 schools if that happened.

Oh please. Money makes whores of us all.

You're both right, some schools will boycott the P5 after pushing us aside, but as long as the practice is allowed, there will be G5 willing to play paycheck games, but as I said in my previous post, if the scheduling is handled the way it is now, if this is a true split, P5 schools should only be able to schedule(or count anyhow) one G5 a year.

And the sad truth to this is the G5 schools they'd likely face are the ones most likely to really get beat into the ground. The Houston's, ECU's, Boise States, and BYU's of the world will have no problem boycotting, but the EMU's and ULM's (no offense warhawk fans) will look to even the playing field with money games.

It will not happen. 15 or more other sports, Title IX, litigation galore, to worry about. There is no way the P5 splits and the NCAA allows the other sports to go on like nothing happened.

Would not happen, but would be great if the P5 split
and that caused the G5 conferences to really take off
television wise.

(08-04-2013 04:51 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Would not happen, but would be great if the P5 split
and that caused the G5 conferences to really take off
television wise.

A G5 split would be the death knell for athletics for most G5 schools. I know it would destroy our program. Alumni interest at present G5 schools would plummet and TV contract values would collapse. People only care about the top level of football. FCS broadcasts get zero ratings--even the FCS playoffs generate no real audience. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

However, I don't think the P5 is looking to split from the G5. With few exceptions, the G5 actually vote with the P5 on most NCAA issues. It's the FCS and non-football playing D-1 schools that tend to road block things the majority of FBS schools want. I suspect that the new Div-4 will be essentially be FBS breaking away from the rest of D-1.

(08-04-2013 10:00 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 04:51 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Would not happen, but would be great if the P5 split
and that caused the G5 conferences to really take off
television wise.

A G5 split would be the death knell for athletics for most G5 schools. I know it would destroy our program. Alumni interest at present G5 schools would plummet and TV contract values would collapse. People only care about the top level of football. FCS broadcasts get zero ratings--even the FCS playoffs generate no real audience. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

However, I don't think the P5 is looking to split from the G5. With few exceptions, the G5 actually vote with the P5 on most NCAA issues. It's the FCS and non-football playing D-1 schools that tend to road block things the majority of FBS schools want. I suspect that the new Div-4 will be essentially be FBS breaking away from the rest of D-1.

The possibility concerning the TV going away isn't assured. I say that because if there were to be a split, the networks will still need games to fill their time, and I can't guarantee it, but I'd assume the P5 wouldn't have enough games to fill the times. Also, I have a hard time imagining a Florida vs. Arkansas game on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Friday night.

True, the last time a D1 split happened, everyone played on Saturdays and ESPN didn't exist. There would be a market, just don't really know what kind.

If you wanna see the effects of a P5 split on the G5, then just look at the history of fcs and tv.
Now there are differences, like school and alumni size and the increased number of sports channels.

I thought that IF the split happened, the P5 threatened to only play each other cause the fans saw it as below them to play schools from the G5 and especially fcs. So thats why and not about a g5 boycott.

I agree and think if split happens it will be all of FBS going to Division 4. This will end the FCS teams voting with FBS teams.

A split of P5 and G5 would kill college basketball and the lawyers would get involved. Huge process and it would take forever to get through all the red tape and paperwork. I doubt seriously a split between P5 and G5 happen.

(08-04-2013 10:00 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(08-04-2013 04:51 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  Would not happen, but would be great if the P5 split
and that caused the G5 conferences to really take off
television wise.

A G5 split would be the death knell for athletics for most G5 schools. I know it would destroy our program. Alumni interest at present G5 schools would plummet and TV contract values would collapse. People only care about the top level of football. FCS broadcasts get zero ratings--even the FCS playoffs generate no real audience. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

However, I don't think the P5 is looking to split from the G5. With few exceptions, the G5 actually vote with the P5 on most NCAA issues. It's the FCS and non-football playing D-1 schools that tend to road block things the majority of FBS schools want. I suspect that the new Div-4 will be essentially be FBS breaking away from the rest of D-1.

Bingo. I just posted about this last night. We will be included I just wish we had a real playoffs where all conferences were involved or at least more access with a 16 team playoff where the G5 has 3 spots at worst. Fan support and moral would be so much higher at some of the smaller G5 schools if we all had a legitimate chance. This is the only sport in the world it seems that has such a country club mentality. Fans of BCS schools have become more snobby and elitist ever since the BCS started.

The big boys want everything for themselves because they don't want the party crashed where FGCU, VCU, Butler, George Mason, Stony Brook and Kent State can crash the big dance or the CWS.

(08-05-2013 08:54 AM)asu7 Wrote:  I agree and think if split happens it will be all of FBS going to Division 4. This will end the FCS teams voting with FBS teams.

A split of P5 and G5 would kill college basketball and the lawyers would get involved. Huge process and it would take forever to get through all the red tape and paperwork. I doubt seriously a split between P5 and G5 happen.

That's what my gut is saying as well.