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If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
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TroyTBoy Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Texas will be in play one day
07-07-2021 05:20 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-07-2021 05:20 PM)TroyTBoy Wrote:  Texas will be in play one day

Texas has been in play since 1987. They've been in talks with all 4 of the other P4 conferences. They realized by 1990 that the longer they held out the more valuable they would be to all of them and the more leverage they would have when they did move. But now the time could easily be at hand. Realignment is now about revenue almost exclusively. Money will be the essential component in a pay for play system. It's wrong, but that's where we are headed. And that will reshape everything.
07-07-2021 05:41 PM
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Win5002 Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(03-09-2021 06:34 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(03-08-2021 01:02 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(03-07-2021 05:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Just forget about the GOR's for a moment and ask yourself which 2 conferences could make leaving profitable enough for ACC schools to make a final movement to 4 conferences of 18 possible? The SEC and Big 10 will essentially be doubling the ACC's media rights by 2024-5. Couple that with the bleak outlook afferward due to a post COVID debt load by many athletic departments, the declining viewership for cable TV, the rise of streaming, the aging of the Boomers, and the negative impacts of NIL and Pay for Play with the court cases pending, and political fallout and the future looks a lot bleaker than it did 2 years ago. So even the most supposedly secure of the ACC schools might be interested in doubling those revenue streams. Place 12 of them and the GOR is moot. The circumstances make it much more feasible.

So the Big 10 picks up: Notre Dame, Virginia, Missouri, Kansas
Think 75 million per school in media payouts

Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Virginia
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin


The SEC picks up: Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Florida State

Think 75 million per school in media payouts

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech



The Big 12 and PAC use the expiration of GOR's to build another conference:
Think 65 million per school in media payouts.

Arizona, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Colorado, Texas Tech, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Clemson, Miami, Oklahoma, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State, Texas


And the New and Improved AAC:

Think 45 million per school in media payouts

Army, Boston College, Navy, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Air Force, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oregon State, Texas Christian, Washington State
Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, Wake Forest


Now those would become the four P conferences comprised of 72 teams and each champion would be invited to a 4 team CFP. Conference champions would be decided in a 3 game playoff between the 3 divisional champs and the best at large.

The only thing that a committee of non participating coaches would do is seed the field for the CFP. No more committees.

All 12 games would be P games with 1 preseason game against any other FCS or former FBS school not in the P4.

This is the 65 former P schools plus (Air Force, Army, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Navy, and South Florida

Flip Missouri and Kansas for Duke and UNC, and I think it works, though the new Big 12/PAC winding up with Clemson/Miami is an odd fit.

Probably because UNC is paranoid about its position within the educational institution hierarchy in the state of NC. Should the SEC take all three of the Raleigh-area programs then that fear is mitigated somewhat.

Mizzou could establish rivalries with Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota, as well as renewing hostilities with Nebraska. So they would be a fit there.

You're right on Clemson/Miami being an odd fit but I think he'll argue that those two wouldn't add any more value to the SEC once other top properties from the ACC are taken. The Big Ten would be too far for them to make an impact. So putting them together with UT/OU would be the next best thing.

There is a couple of problems with this. First of all there is no way the AAC division you listed commands 45M per team.

Secondly, and the bigger problem with going to essentially 3 power divisions and a leftover conference is you devalue the 3 power conferences because when you put all the heavy weight teams in one league you end up with more losses. Its not a big deal for the teams undefeated or those with one, sometimes two losses. BUT all those games that now have teams at .500, a game above .500 or even below .500 get devalued in content value.
07-12-2021 04:03 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #1944
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-12-2021 04:03 PM)Win5002 Wrote:  
(03-09-2021 06:34 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  
(03-08-2021 01:02 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  
(03-07-2021 05:03 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Just forget about the GOR's for a moment and ask yourself which 2 conferences could make leaving profitable enough for ACC schools to make a final movement to 4 conferences of 18 possible? The SEC and Big 10 will essentially be doubling the ACC's media rights by 2024-5. Couple that with the bleak outlook afferward due to a post COVID debt load by many athletic departments, the declining viewership for cable TV, the rise of streaming, the aging of the Boomers, and the negative impacts of NIL and Pay for Play with the court cases pending, and political fallout and the future looks a lot bleaker than it did 2 years ago. So even the most supposedly secure of the ACC schools might be interested in doubling those revenue streams. Place 12 of them and the GOR is moot. The circumstances make it much more feasible.

So the Big 10 picks up: Notre Dame, Virginia, Missouri, Kansas
Think 75 million per school in media payouts

Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Virginia
Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State
Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin


The SEC picks up: Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia Tech, and Florida State

Think 75 million per school in media payouts

Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech



The Big 12 and PAC use the expiration of GOR's to build another conference:
Think 65 million per school in media payouts.

Arizona, Arizona State, Brigham Young, Colorado, Texas Tech, Utah
California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington
Clemson, Miami, Oklahoma, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State, Texas


And the New and Improved AAC:

Think 45 million per school in media payouts

Army, Boston College, Navy, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia
Air Force, Iowa State, Kansas State, Oregon State, Texas Christian, Washington State
Baylor, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Louisville, South Florida, Wake Forest


Now those would become the four P conferences comprised of 72 teams and each champion would be invited to a 4 team CFP. Conference champions would be decided in a 3 game playoff between the 3 divisional champs and the best at large.

The only thing that a committee of non participating coaches would do is seed the field for the CFP. No more committees.

All 12 games would be P games with 1 preseason game against any other FCS or former FBS school not in the P4.

This is the 65 former P schools plus (Air Force, Army, Brigham Young, Central Florida, Cincinnati, Navy, and South Florida

Flip Missouri and Kansas for Duke and UNC, and I think it works, though the new Big 12/PAC winding up with Clemson/Miami is an odd fit.

Probably because UNC is paranoid about its position within the educational institution hierarchy in the state of NC. Should the SEC take all three of the Raleigh-area programs then that fear is mitigated somewhat.

Mizzou could establish rivalries with Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota, as well as renewing hostilities with Nebraska. So they would be a fit there.

You're right on Clemson/Miami being an odd fit but I think he'll argue that those two wouldn't add any more value to the SEC once other top properties from the ACC are taken. The Big Ten would be too far for them to make an impact. So putting them together with UT/OU would be the next best thing.

There is a couple of problems with this. First of all there is no way the AAC division you listed commands 45M per team.

Secondly, and the bigger problem with going to essentially 3 power divisions and a leftover conference is you devalue the 3 power conferences because when you put all the heavy weight teams in one league you end up with more losses. Its not a big deal for the teams undefeated or those with one, sometimes two losses. BUT all those games that now have teams at .500, a game above .500 or even below .500 get devalued in content value.

There is only 1 problem and that one applies to all realignment scenarios and those from anyone. Pay for play is about to change the nature of everything, has the power to bring changes to any conference, will draw a new line for what schools can and can't afford, will negate the organizing principle of the NCAA, and ultimately will alter the way fans look at the game.

Some times we kill time here with idle models and sometimes we get serious. The model you criticize was a dead time speculation of how to create 3 super conferences within a competitive economic range of one another and to create a buffer conference which could make 45 if the total number of schools in FBS was reduced. But it was still a mental exercise. When we know who can afford to be in and who can't then we can have a serious speculation about who winds up where.

If all things had remained as they were then the game would have been about UT and OU and who they might take with them. It's all moot until the cap on stipends is ruled upon next Summer.
07-12-2021 05:41 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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Post: #1945
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Will pay-the-players change a P5 conference's expansion preferences that otherwise would not be a focus?
I can see the SEC thinking "if we add Oklahoma in the west, and North Carolina in the east, that will be fantastic!" 03-hissyfit

Many of the obstacles to expansion possibilities will still hang around. Will the GoRs in their current state vanish? Maybe somewhat, if multiple power conference schools opt-out of the pay-the-players initiative.

While the B12 will soon have a GoR window, the ACC has another decade+ to offer a window for members to leave.
However, a conference has the power to alter or cancel their own GoR. Getting near full agreement would be the challenge.
Frankly, how any of us may see or predict expansion results will encounter surprises. There are controllable variables, and the ones that are not controllable.
Market value, geography, athletic compatibility, and academic reputations, will remain factors in choices. And, do long, withstanding attitudes and certain schools behavioral practices and traditional allegiances, change? I suppose so with millions more on the table. When and how much?03-drunk
If the SEC ended up adding Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and calling it a day, I wouldn't be shocked. That could be the most realistic and expedient option if the timeframe is two or three years to make a move.
Texas? Waiting around for them to exhaust all their schemes not to be in the SEC, will test somebody's patience.
07-12-2021 07:51 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Houston Chronicle reports that Oklahoma and Texas have approached the SEC about joining. This thread may be about at its end.

Sweet!
07-21-2021 03:31 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1947
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-21-2021 03:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Houston Chronicle reports that Oklahoma and Texas have approached the SEC about joining. This thread may be about at its end.

Sweet!

I thought surely we'd hit 100 pages...
07-21-2021 05:32 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Well it's never over until it's over and A&M is making threats and bowing up. The reason they think they were not informed is that all presidents were sworn to silence and all were in the know and their president has been keeping her word. Ridiculous.

The big stuff comes next. When the Big 12 is formally notified and the formal applications filed we get on with life. But, for how long? Just until the other dominoes fall, and they will fall. Fear is back, greed is in play, and somebody on one of the coasts will try the waters.

And this will absolutely be going on again next Summer when we'll know if caps on stipends are legal or not. There could be opt outs at that point.

Now the rumor mongers are out and there are some whoppers.

Big 10 raiding the PAC is a favorite, but the best one so far is the SEC moving to 20 with Clemson, Florida State, okay not news but wait for it......Michigan and Ohio State.

Now I will admit that foursome adds value and if you consider ESPN's love of the Buckeyes and their lament of Michigan's fall from grace and the Florida market and Clemson's run do you realize that with Oklahoma this includes every CFP participant other than Oregon and Washington?

Super Conference? Yeah! Is it happening. I'm pretty sure it's not, but what a punch. I will say this though, of all of the Big 10 schools the sports culture at Ohio State fits the SEC culture even if tailgate foods don't. The Buckeyes and their fans would be fun and as they say in the Big 10, they're contiguous!

I think we are done at 16 unless somebody drops out and then I suppose Kansas is in the wings for Mizzou and Kentucky, or unless somebody key in the ACC bolts or ND is grabbed and their value suffers again and then get really antsy.

If there was a run on the ACC by the Big 10 I can see ESPN protecting their best product in the SEC at pro rata. Think FSU, Clemson, North Carolina and one of the Virginia's which with UNC might well be UVa though Tech is the better sports value. And Texas would likely prefer UVa and A&M would prefer Tech and that would take us back to the start of this post.

So SEC brethren we now have a rivalry hotter than the Iron Bowl. I give you the Bickersons, Bevo and Revely. May the eyes of Texas stay on them. There's oodles of money in those eyes!
(This post was last modified: 07-27-2021 02:02 AM by JRsec.)
07-24-2021 02:28 AM
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Post: #1949
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
I don't post much but I'll contribute to getting to 100!
07-24-2021 05:51 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
I am fairly close to Charlotte and hear the media from there. One hears all sorts of unsubstantiated new rumors. One is that Dabo Sweeney and Mack Brown were at the Charlotte airport heading to Birmingham to meet with SEC officials. One caller to Paul Feinbaun's show mentioned it yesterday. Never mind that each are closer to other respective airports. Also, why would SEC be talking to two ACC football coaches instead of the schools' ADs, Presidents, or pertinent VPs? Anyway, it fuels the rumor that UNC and Clemson are SEC expansion candidates. I heard other comments, still rumor, that the SEC
seeks to expand with Clemson, UNC, Notre Dame, and FSU (or Miami).
Then some serious speaking caller, and sounding educated, suggested that the SEC is making a deal with the BIG, involving ESPN of course, to collectively extract eight ACC schools to bust the ACC's GoR. The way I heard the commenter, is that along with Kansas from the B12, the BIG seeks UVA, GA Tech, Pitt, FSU (or Miami?) and Duke or NCSU. I don't recall exactly, and wasn't taking notes on what may be largely nonsense.
There are Clemson fans galore around me. Many do think the SEC wants them now. They talk as if Clemson has an immediate decision to make.
If the SEC and the BIG (silently for now), are working together with corporate media to essentially dismantle two other P5 conferences (the B12 and the ACC), that's one hellava conspiracy theory to keep under wraps.
To me, the reality of the situation is much less bold and advanced. Is there collaboration with the BIG by the SEC? Of course, those officials chat all the time. That doesn't mean they have settled on a bi-conference expansion plan.
This is fun, with a healthy amount of silliness.
07-27-2021 02:53 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-27-2021 02:53 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am fairly close to Charlotte and hear the media from there. One hears all sorts of unsubstantiated new rumors. One is that Dabo Sweeney and Mack Brown were at the Charlotte airport heading to Birmingham to meet with SEC officials. One caller to Paul Feinbaun's show mentioned it yesterday. Never mind that each are closer to other respective airports. Also, why would SEC be talking to two ACC football coaches instead of the schools' ADs, Presidents, or pertinent VPs? Anyway, it fuels the rumor that UNC and Clemson are SEC expansion candidates. I heard other comments, still rumor, that the SEC
seeks to expand with Clemson, UNC, Notre Dame, and FSU (or Miami).
Then some serious speaking caller, and sounding educated, suggested that the SEC is making a deal with the BIG, involving ESPN of course, to collectively extract eight ACC schools to bust the ACC's GoR. The way I heard the commenter, is that along with Kansas from the B12, the BIG seeks UVA, GA Tech, Pitt, FSU (or Miami?) and Duke or NCSU. I don't recall exactly, and wasn't taking notes on what may be largely nonsense.
There are Clemson fans galore around me. Many do think the SEC wants them now. They talk as if Clemson has an immediate decision to make.
If the SEC and the BIG (silently for now), are working together with corporate media to essentially dismantle two other P5 conferences (the B12 and the ACC), that's one hellava conspiracy theory to keep under wraps.
To me, the reality of the situation is much less bold and advanced. Is there collaboration with the BIG by the SEC? Of course, those officials chat all the time. That doesn't mean they have settled on a bi-conference expansion plan.
This is fun, with a healthy amount of silliness.

If the B1G is involved I would think Miami is the safe bet (they have near AAU credentials and the alumni now are mostly Big East / Big 10 diaspora). Florida (fan boys aside) really wants FSU on board and I can see UVa, Pitt, Duke and Ga Tech to the B1G.

I see Clemson, FSU, UNC, and Notre Dame (ESPN) would be our preference.

Positives I see is that Duke has a large draw in NYC so the B1G has to love that. The have numerous alums in Atlanta and Miami. Pitt is a great research institution. And UVa with Duke is a plumb for them.

I get that it's a rumor but it makes sense. Both move to 20.
07-27-2021 03:29 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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Post: #1952
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-27-2021 03:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 02:53 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am fairly close to Charlotte and hear the media from there. One hears all sorts of unsubstantiated new rumors. One is that Dabo Sweeney and Mack Brown were at the Charlotte airport heading to Birmingham to meet with SEC officials. One caller to Paul Feinbaun's show mentioned it yesterday. Never mind that each are closer to other respective airports. Also, why would SEC be talking to two ACC football coaches instead of the schools' ADs, Presidents, or pertinent VPs? Anyway, it fuels the rumor that UNC and Clemson are SEC expansion candidates. I heard other comments, still rumor, that the SEC
seeks to expand with Clemson, UNC, Notre Dame, and FSU (or Miami).
Then some serious speaking caller, and sounding educated, suggested that the SEC is making a deal with the BIG, involving ESPN of course, to collectively extract eight ACC schools to bust the ACC's GoR. The way I heard the commenter, is that along with Kansas from the B12, the BIG seeks UVA, GA Tech, Pitt, FSU (or Miami?) and Duke or NCSU. I don't recall exactly, and wasn't taking notes on what may be largely nonsense.
There are Clemson fans galore around me. Many do think the SEC wants them now. They talk as if Clemson has an immediate decision to make.
If the SEC and the BIG (silently for now), are working together with corporate media to essentially dismantle two other P5 conferences (the B12 and the ACC), that's one hellava conspiracy theory to keep under wraps.
To me, the reality of the situation is much less bold and advanced. Is there collaboration with the BIG by the SEC? Of course, those officials chat all the time. That doesn't mean they have settled on a bi-conference expansion plan.
This is fun, with a healthy amount of silliness.

If the B1G is involved I would think Miami is the safe bet (they have near AAU credentials and the alumni now are mostly Big East / Big 10 diaspora). Florida (fan boys aside) really wants FSU on board and I can see UVa, Pitt, Duke and Ga Tech to the B1G.

I see Clemson, FSU, UNC, and Notre Dame (ESPN) would be our preference.

Positives I see is that Duke has a large draw in NYC so the B1G has to love that. The have numerous alums in Atlanta and Miami. Pitt is a great research institution. And UVa with Duke is a plumb for them.

I get that it's a rumor but it makes sense. Both move to 20.

Pet theory...

We've seen the reports of the SEC speaking with Ohio State and Michigan. Not that that story received wide ranging confirmation, but it doesn't seem anyone really debunked it either. I find that interesting.

What if the SEC isn't so much interested in grabbing those schools as they were in working with them?

We can safely assume that Kevin Warren is either asleep at the wheel or has been neutered since nearly killing the football season last year. Perhaps OSU and Michigan are taking a more hands on approach to leadership?

What if parsing out the ACC is a matter of what the SEC(backed by ESPN) is interested in doing and they are simply having discussions with the Big Ten via the power players in the league?
07-27-2021 09:29 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #1953
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-27-2021 09:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 03:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 02:53 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am fairly close to Charlotte and hear the media from there. One hears all sorts of unsubstantiated new rumors. One is that Dabo Sweeney and Mack Brown were at the Charlotte airport heading to Birmingham to meet with SEC officials. One caller to Paul Feinbaun's show mentioned it yesterday. Never mind that each are closer to other respective airports. Also, why would SEC be talking to two ACC football coaches instead of the schools' ADs, Presidents, or pertinent VPs? Anyway, it fuels the rumor that UNC and Clemson are SEC expansion candidates. I heard other comments, still rumor, that the SEC
seeks to expand with Clemson, UNC, Notre Dame, and FSU (or Miami).
Then some serious speaking caller, and sounding educated, suggested that the SEC is making a deal with the BIG, involving ESPN of course, to collectively extract eight ACC schools to bust the ACC's GoR. The way I heard the commenter, is that along with Kansas from the B12, the BIG seeks UVA, GA Tech, Pitt, FSU (or Miami?) and Duke or NCSU. I don't recall exactly, and wasn't taking notes on what may be largely nonsense.
There are Clemson fans galore around me. Many do think the SEC wants them now. They talk as if Clemson has an immediate decision to make.
If the SEC and the BIG (silently for now), are working together with corporate media to essentially dismantle two other P5 conferences (the B12 and the ACC), that's one hellava conspiracy theory to keep under wraps.
To me, the reality of the situation is much less bold and advanced. Is there collaboration with the BIG by the SEC? Of course, those officials chat all the time. That doesn't mean they have settled on a bi-conference expansion plan.
This is fun, with a healthy amount of silliness.

If the B1G is involved I would think Miami is the safe bet (they have near AAU credentials and the alumni now are mostly Big East / Big 10 diaspora). Florida (fan boys aside) really wants FSU on board and I can see UVa, Pitt, Duke and Ga Tech to the B1G.

I see Clemson, FSU, UNC, and Notre Dame (ESPN) would be our preference.

Positives I see is that Duke has a large draw in NYC so the B1G has to love that. The have numerous alums in Atlanta and Miami. Pitt is a great research institution. And UVa with Duke is a plumb for them.

I get that it's a rumor but it makes sense. Both move to 20.

Pet theory...

We've seen the reports of the SEC speaking with Ohio State and Michigan. Not that that story received wide ranging confirmation, but it doesn't seem anyone really debunked it either. I find that interesting.

What if the SEC isn't so much interested in grabbing those schools as they were in working with them?

We can safely assume that Kevin Warren is either asleep at the wheel or has been neutered since nearly killing the football season last year. Perhaps OSU and Michigan are taking a more hands on approach to leadership?

What if parsing out the ACC is a matter of what the SEC(backed by ESPN) is interested in doing and they are simply having discussions with the Big Ten via the power players in the league?

Have any of you considered what would happen if Notre Dame, a school who desires deep south recruiting games and doesn't want to be just another Northern Midwestern school, thought if we are moving to a closed system which renders independence moot we might as well join where it does us the most good, decided to go all in with the SEC?

That opens up anything we might want, if we wanted anything else at all. Maybe FSU to have a 2nd Fla school for scheduling.

There's your monster grand slam!

We offer them the largest area in which Catholics are the leading immigrants, where old Catholic roots exist, the recruiting and exposure they desire, the fattest paycheck and weekly chance to demonstrate that they are not just another Northern Midwestern school. And we could offer them a close division if we picked up a Carolina and Virginia school:
Kentucky, N.C./NCSt, Notre Dame, Tennessee, UVa/VaTech

Revenue wise it's a kill shot. From there we do what we want and if ESPN thought they could lose them to the Big 10 they would help it happen for full rights.
07-27-2021 10:22 PM
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Post: #1954
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-27-2021 10:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 09:29 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 03:29 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(07-27-2021 02:53 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I am fairly close to Charlotte and hear the media from there. One hears all sorts of unsubstantiated new rumors. One is that Dabo Sweeney and Mack Brown were at the Charlotte airport heading to Birmingham to meet with SEC officials. One caller to Paul Feinbaun's show mentioned it yesterday. Never mind that each are closer to other respective airports. Also, why would SEC be talking to two ACC football coaches instead of the schools' ADs, Presidents, or pertinent VPs? Anyway, it fuels the rumor that UNC and Clemson are SEC expansion candidates. I heard other comments, still rumor, that the SEC
seeks to expand with Clemson, UNC, Notre Dame, and FSU (or Miami).
Then some serious speaking caller, and sounding educated, suggested that the SEC is making a deal with the BIG, involving ESPN of course, to collectively extract eight ACC schools to bust the ACC's GoR. The way I heard the commenter, is that along with Kansas from the B12, the BIG seeks UVA, GA Tech, Pitt, FSU (or Miami?) and Duke or NCSU. I don't recall exactly, and wasn't taking notes on what may be largely nonsense.
There are Clemson fans galore around me. Many do think the SEC wants them now. They talk as if Clemson has an immediate decision to make.
If the SEC and the BIG (silently for now), are working together with corporate media to essentially dismantle two other P5 conferences (the B12 and the ACC), that's one hellava conspiracy theory to keep under wraps.
To me, the reality of the situation is much less bold and advanced. Is there collaboration with the BIG by the SEC? Of course, those officials chat all the time. That doesn't mean they have settled on a bi-conference expansion plan.
This is fun, with a healthy amount of silliness.

If the B1G is involved I would think Miami is the safe bet (they have near AAU credentials and the alumni now are mostly Big East / Big 10 diaspora). Florida (fan boys aside) really wants FSU on board and I can see UVa, Pitt, Duke and Ga Tech to the B1G.

I see Clemson, FSU, UNC, and Notre Dame (ESPN) would be our preference.

Positives I see is that Duke has a large draw in NYC so the B1G has to love that. The have numerous alums in Atlanta and Miami. Pitt is a great research institution. And UVa with Duke is a plumb for them.

I get that it's a rumor but it makes sense. Both move to 20.

Pet theory...

We've seen the reports of the SEC speaking with Ohio State and Michigan. Not that that story received wide ranging confirmation, but it doesn't seem anyone really debunked it either. I find that interesting.

What if the SEC isn't so much interested in grabbing those schools as they were in working with them?

We can safely assume that Kevin Warren is either asleep at the wheel or has been neutered since nearly killing the football season last year. Perhaps OSU and Michigan are taking a more hands on approach to leadership?

What if parsing out the ACC is a matter of what the SEC(backed by ESPN) is interested in doing and they are simply having discussions with the Big Ten via the power players in the league?

Have any of you considered what would happen if Notre Dame, a school who desires deep south recruiting games and doesn't want to be just another Northern Midwestern school, thought if we are moving to a closed system which renders independence moot we might as well join where it does us the most good, decided to go all in with the SEC?

That opens up anything we might want, if we wanted anything else at all. Maybe FSU to have a 2nd Fla school for scheduling.

There's your monster grand slam!

We offer them the largest area in which Catholics are the leading immigrants, where old Catholic roots exist, the recruiting and exposure they desire, the fattest paycheck and weekly chance to demonstrate that they are not just another Northern Midwestern school. And we could offer them a close division if we picked up a Carolina and Virginia school:
Kentucky, N.C./NCSt, Notre Dame, Tennessee, UVa/VaTech

Revenue wise it's a kill shot. From there we do what we want and if ESPN thought they could lose them to the Big 10 they would help it happen for full rights.

Notre Dame and Florida State make sense.

To me, Clemson also makes sense, but here's my question...Vanderbilt is not going to compete terribly hard even with new money. We all know it. Do we craft a model where they still get to play in the league? It could make room for others in that mold, but are they just going to give up football? The costs of independence in that sport are prohibitive for schools in that sphere, and I don't know if another league would do them any favors if they maintain an SEC connection.

Even if they agreed to take a partial role, are they willingly going to give up a share of the football money?

UNC and Duke could still be a valuable combo if it's more about Duke basketball than what they bring in football. I tend to err on that side because their brand has value. Even without Coach K, if they maintain a connection to the premier league then they will have access to quality coaching candidates and funds that should maintain their edge. Being that the brand is already built, seems like a way to get the best of both worlds.

Notre Dame, Florida State, Clemson, UNC, and Virginia as full members?

Vanderbilt and Duke as non-football members?
07-28-2021 06:20 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #1955
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
By a 14-0 Vote the SEC extends accepts the applications for membership of the Universities of Texas and Oklahoma and await their responses tomorrow. If both accept they will be the 15th and 16th members of the SEC by lunchtime tomorrow, or a tad sooner!

I call that back to back home runs!
07-29-2021 05:07 PM
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AubTiger16 Offline
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Post: #1956
RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Definitely two big time additions. I am curious to see when they will actually start playing in the SEC. I saw a tweet, can't remember who by that stated, " SEC official, expects OU and Texas to start in 2022." Basically not this season but the next season. I don't have a twitter account, I clicked the link from another board on this site. Maybe it was the AAC or the Realignment board.
07-29-2021 06:26 PM
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ICThawk Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
Is it time to close this thread?
07-29-2021 07:50 PM
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AllTideUp Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.
07-29-2021 08:05 PM
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OdinFrigg Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.
(This post was last modified: 07-29-2021 08:26 PM by OdinFrigg.)
07-29-2021 08:24 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: If the SEC did expand again and did so from the Big 12 who should we take and why?
(07-29-2021 08:24 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  
(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  
(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.

I'll close this thread when this round of realignment is over as it will all be interrelated.

Yeah their may still be some squiggles.

And the main board which is heavily ACC oriented doesn't want to acknowledge how easily it could happen, but, the calculation I saw that a Texas guy had a photo shot of puts every SEC school with an annual payout of 76.5 million when CBS's contract is up, or bought out. So the question is knowing the ACC payout will be under 35 next year. 40 million x 15 remaining years is 600 million dollars in difference. It's going to happen once they get enough placed, not to dissolve the league, but to leave fewer than enough to keep it going.

Now let me toss out a plan. The PAC takes Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU and Texas Tech and move to 16 adding 2 AAU, one in DFW and the other with Tech which has a large alumni base there. What if Notre Dame with Pitt, B.C. and Syracuse formed an Eastern Half division and joined the PAC?

If the Big 10 takes Kansas, Duke, N.C. State, Virginia, Ga Tech, and Miami, and the SEC takes Clemson, F.S.U., UNC, and Va Tech you place everyone but Wake who could easily go Big East for Hoops. Vandy goes all but football and Oklahoma State jumps in.

Baylor, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are out or partials. Baylor and WVU go American, a conference they can actually win. The AAC gets inclusion.

Now everyone is accounted for. Why UNC in the SEC? Texas and ESPN would want that brand against Kentucky as nobody knows what Duke will have post Coach K. Duke is better in the B1G due to a large alumni base in NYC. Miami is better there because of the large alumni base in Broward and Dade. Same with Ga Tech and of course UVa is beltway. Duke is a huge academic bonus but the N. Carolina market is reached for football by State which is land grant and next five in positioned for AAU.
07-29-2021 09:46 PM
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