(07-29-2021 09:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:24 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.

I'll close this thread when this round of realignment is over as it will all be interrelated.

Yeah their may still be some squiggles.

And the main board which is heavily ACC oriented doesn't want to acknowledge how easily it could happen, but, the calculation I saw that a Texas guy had a photo shot of puts every SEC school with an annual payout of 76.5 million when CBS's contract is up, or bought out. So the question is knowing the ACC payout will be under 35 next year. 40 million x 15 remaining years is 600 million dollars in difference. It's going to happen once they get enough placed, not to dissolve the league, but to leave fewer than enough to keep it going.

Now let me toss out a plan. The PAC takes Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU and Texas Tech and move to 16 adding 2 AAU, one in DFW and the other with Tech which has a large alumni base there. What if Notre Dame with Pitt, B.C. and Syracuse formed an Eastern Half division and joined the PAC?

If the Big 10 takes Kansas, Duke, N.C. State, Virginia, Ga Tech, and Miami, and the SEC takes Clemson, F.S.U., UNC, and Va Tech you place everyone but Wake who could easily go Big East for Hoops. Vandy goes all but football and Oklahoma State jumps in.

Baylor, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are out or partials. Baylor and WVU go American, a conference they can actually win. The AAC gets inclusion.

Now everyone is accounted for. Why UNC in the SEC? Texas and ESPN would want that brand against Kentucky as nobody knows what Duke will have post Coach K. Duke is better in the B1G due to a large alumni base in NYC. Miami is better there because of the large alumni base in Broward and Dade. Same with Ga Tech and of course UVa is beltway. Duke is a huge academic bonus but the N. Carolina market is reached for football by State which is land grant and next five in positioned for AAU.

Louisville.

I know they've had their scandals, but it's an overall strong economic program. I think they'll need to land somewhere decent.

Personally, I would be fine with Florida State and Clemson as the anchors followed up by Georgia Tech and Louisville to 20. I know Kentucky hasn't come right out and supported Louisville's inclusion, but I wonder if they would be against it out of principle? UK and UL rivalry is much like Duke and UNC...it has a lot of juice and the programs are both consistently good.

This would also keep the Big Ten from planting a flag in the Deep South unless you count Miami. GT is by no means a big time player, but they have a lot of history with schools in the region so it's a nice game to have in place of the traditional cupcake.

Spitballing, but I am interested in Jay Bilas' take that the ACC should be working on a merger. Is that Jay pining for his beloved Duke to maintain relevancy or is there something going on behind the scenes with that? Bilas as a mouthpiece?

(07-29-2021 09:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:24 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.

I'll close this thread when this round of realignment is over as it will all be interrelated.

Yeah their may still be some squiggles.

And the main board which is heavily ACC oriented doesn't want to acknowledge how easily it could happen, but, the calculation I saw that a Texas guy had a photo shot of puts every SEC school with an annual payout of 76.5 million when CBS's contract is up, or bought out. So the question is knowing the ACC payout will be under 35 next year. 40 million x 15 remaining years is 600 million dollars in difference. It's going to happen once they get enough placed, not to dissolve the league, but to leave fewer than enough to keep it going.

Now let me toss out a plan. The PAC takes Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU and Texas Tech and move to 16 adding 2 AAU, one in DFW and the other with Tech which has a large alumni base there. What if Notre Dame with Pitt, B.C. and Syracuse formed an Eastern Half division and joined the PAC?

If the Big 10 takes Kansas, Duke, N.C. State, Virginia, Ga Tech, and Miami, and the SEC takes Clemson, F.S.U., UNC, and Va Tech you place everyone but Wake who could easily go Big East for Hoops. Vandy goes all but football and Oklahoma State jumps in.

Baylor, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are out or partials. Baylor and WVU go American, a conference they can actually win. The AAC gets inclusion.

Now everyone is accounted for. Why UNC in the SEC? Texas and ESPN would want that brand against Kentucky as nobody knows what Duke will have post Coach K. Duke is better in the B1G due to a large alumni base in NYC. Miami is better there because of the large alumni base in Broward and Dade. Same with Ga Tech and of course UVa is beltway. Duke is a huge academic bonus but the N. Carolina market is reached for football by State which is land grant and next five in positioned for AAU.

Clarification: In this scenario, PaC only gets one AAU in Iowa State. kSu, TCU, and Tech are not.

Also, on a tangent, who would you say are the next five to get AAU status and why? I feel like I've heard Georgia might get it down the line. Thanks!

(07-29-2021 11:15 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:24 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.

I'll close this thread when this round of realignment is over as it will all be interrelated.

Yeah their may still be some squiggles.

And the main board which is heavily ACC oriented doesn't want to acknowledge how easily it could happen, but, the calculation I saw that a Texas guy had a photo shot of puts every SEC school with an annual payout of 76.5 million when CBS's contract is up, or bought out. So the question is knowing the ACC payout will be under 35 next year. 40 million x 15 remaining years is 600 million dollars in difference. It's going to happen once they get enough placed, not to dissolve the league, but to leave fewer than enough to keep it going.

Now let me toss out a plan. The PAC takes Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU and Texas Tech and move to 16 adding 2 AAU, one in DFW and the other with Tech which has a large alumni base there. What if Notre Dame with Pitt, B.C. and Syracuse formed an Eastern Half division and joined the PAC?

If the Big 10 takes Kansas, Duke, N.C. State, Virginia, Ga Tech, and Miami, and the SEC takes Clemson, F.S.U., UNC, and Va Tech you place everyone but Wake who could easily go Big East for Hoops. Vandy goes all but football and Oklahoma State jumps in.

Baylor, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are out or partials. Baylor and WVU go American, a conference they can actually win. The AAC gets inclusion.

Now everyone is accounted for. Why UNC in the SEC? Texas and ESPN would want that brand against Kentucky as nobody knows what Duke will have post Coach K. Duke is better in the B1G due to a large alumni base in NYC. Miami is better there because of the large alumni base in Broward and Dade. Same with Ga Tech and of course UVa is beltway. Duke is a huge academic bonus but the N. Carolina market is reached for football by State which is land grant and next five in positioned for AAU.

Clarification: In this scenario, PaC only gets one AAU in Iowa State. kSu, TCU, and Tech are not.

Also, on a tangent, who would you say are the next five to get AAU status and why? I feel like I've heard Georgia might get it down the line. Thanks!

Oops! I had Kansas with Iowa State and changed it without rereading, thanks.

A couple of years ago there was a board row over AAU and how they were selected and you can go to the AAU site and look at ratings, but I remembered NC State and Miami were close. I think it might have been OU we were checking on. Anyway that's where I got it. I don't remember the others as many aren't schools who play sports. OU was a good ways down. And even being next five doesn't mean you get in as there has to be an opening. State could wait 3 decades or 3 years.

(07-29-2021 11:13 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 09:46 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:24 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 08:05 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(07-29-2021 07:50 PM)ICThawk Wrote:  Is it time to close this thread?

Not that I expect another addition from the Big 12 necessarily, but I think this chapter isn't quite closed.

Doubtful the SEC is interested in any additional current B12 schools; at least for a long time. But with the mega-conference initiative and/or pay-the-players factor developing, I would not outright dismiss certain reshuffling that could directly impact the SEC.

The focus is turning quickly to Clemson and FSU from the ACC. That is more than speculation already.

I'll close this thread when this round of realignment is over as it will all be interrelated.

Yeah their may still be some squiggles.

And the main board which is heavily ACC oriented doesn't want to acknowledge how easily it could happen, but, the calculation I saw that a Texas guy had a photo shot of puts every SEC school with an annual payout of 76.5 million when CBS's contract is up, or bought out. So the question is knowing the ACC payout will be under 35 next year. 40 million x 15 remaining years is 600 million dollars in difference. It's going to happen once they get enough placed, not to dissolve the league, but to leave fewer than enough to keep it going.

Now let me toss out a plan. The PAC takes Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU and Texas Tech and move to 16 adding 2 AAU, one in DFW and the other with Tech which has a large alumni base there. What if Notre Dame with Pitt, B.C. and Syracuse formed an Eastern Half division and joined the PAC?

If the Big 10 takes Kansas, Duke, N.C. State, Virginia, Ga Tech, and Miami, and the SEC takes Clemson, F.S.U., UNC, and Va Tech you place everyone but Wake who could easily go Big East for Hoops. Vandy goes all but football and Oklahoma State jumps in.

Baylor, West Virginia, Wake Forest and Vanderbilt are out or partials. Baylor and WVU go American, a conference they can actually win. The AAC gets inclusion.

Now everyone is accounted for. Why UNC in the SEC? Texas and ESPN would want that brand against Kentucky as nobody knows what Duke will have post Coach K. Duke is better in the B1G due to a large alumni base in NYC. Miami is better there because of the large alumni base in Broward and Dade. Same with Ga Tech and of course UVa is beltway. Duke is a huge academic bonus but the N. Carolina market is reached for football by State which is land grant and next five in positioned for AAU.

Louisville.

I know they've had their scandals, but it's an overall strong economic program. I think they'll need to land somewhere decent.

Personally, I would be fine with Florida State and Clemson as the anchors followed up by Georgia Tech and Louisville to 20. I know Kentucky hasn't come right out and supported Louisville's inclusion, but I wonder if they would be against it out of principle? UK and UL rivalry is much like Duke and UNC...it has a lot of juice and the programs are both consistently good.

This would also keep the Big Ten from planting a flag in the Deep South unless you count Miami. GT is by no means a big time player, but they have a lot of history with schools in the region so it's a nice game to have in place of the traditional cupcake.

Spitballing, but I am interested in Jay Bilas' take that the ACC should be working on a merger. Is that Jay pining for his beloved Duke to maintain relevancy or is there something going on behind the scenes with that? Bilas as a mouthpiece?

I think there is some preemptive greasing for a master plan. I've been looking to see how this could be fine tuned to be possible and looking at how probable as well.

Having 2 large conferences when one has little access to recruiting won't work. The Big 10 will need access to the South. The have a lot of alums in Virginia, North Carolina, Atlanta, and Miami. Tech as nothing to the SEC. Georgia is #1 in Atlanta by a couple of percentage points, Tech is second, Auburn third and Clemson 4th. If we do take Clemson what can Tech offer us? Yes they have academics and that makes them much more valuable with market to the B10 and it makes the B10 more valuable to them. B10 alums in Atlanta who want to go to a B10 game will buy Tech tickets.

Clemson and FSU will need homes and both heavily increase content value. The market subscription value is so minimal now that excluding them on duplicated market basis is penny wise and pound foolish. If the Big 10 takes Duke (strong alumni base in NYC and great academics) they will need a football market school in NC to maximize value. NC State is land grant with solid ratings in N.C. and strong academics on the cusp with AAU, or were when I checked 2 years ago. UVa is beltway & very strong academics. So there's your path to strong recruiting in Georgia and Florida. They'll need a 6th and their cost in this is Iowa State which FOX and ESPN will have to make whole.

The SEC has a price too. Wake comes in as all but football to appease UNC and complete placement of ACC schools. Hopefully Vandy takes the same deal and we pick up Kansas in their slot.

So the B1G looks like this:
Duke, Georgia Tech, Miami, N.C. State, Virginia
Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers
Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State
Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Minnesota, Wisconsin

SEC:
Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina
Kentucky, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia Tech
Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M
Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana State, Oklahoma, Texas
* Vanderbilt and Wake Forest all but football.

So how about the PAC?
Oregon, Stanford, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State
Arizona, Arizona State, California, California Los Angeles, Southern Cal
Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse
Colorado, Oklahoma State, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Utah

Baylor and Kansas State to AAC.

So far that's as good as I can work it.

The PAC picks up Eastern and Central and some MW adds in time zones. This helps multiply times and slots and helps them tremendously.

The East plays minor sports and basketball in the Big East and Football only in the PAC.

In progress post.

JRsec Wrote:

"The SEC has a price too. Wake comes in as all but football to appease UNC and complete placement of ACC schools. Hopefully Vandy takes the same deal and we pick up Kansas in their slot."

That is an excellent idea as to Vandy & Wake. Keeping a presence in Nashville and adding Winston-Salem, is not paying a price if done strategically. Vandy and Wake have history playing each other, semi-regularly, in multiple sports. Vandy needs a similar partner in the SEC. Asking Vandy to "drop down" in fb, alone in the SEC, looks too targeted in a negative way.
The SEC could give Vandy and Wake a sorta Notre Dame-style arrangement. Give each a few (3 or 4 each) SEC fb games for scheduling and survival, while the two participate fully in other sports. Vandy and Wake, thus could schedule more schools per fb such as Tulane, Rice, Army, Furman, UMass, etc. that allow them enhanced opportunities for wins.

SEC adds: FSU, Clemson, and UNC in full.
Add Wake Forest in all-sports excluding complete fb scheduling).
Have Vandy accept the same fb arrangement as WF.

I am not going to comment on Kansas, GT, etc. But the SEC and BIG need to work together, including the TV/media contractors (ESPN+) to make the divide happen. If all, or near all, ACC schools have favorable places to land, that ACC GoR can be severed and abandoned. It will take diligent diplomacy and incentives.

Welcome to the SEC! My wife and I have a lifetime of fond memories of the SEC and I believe your lifetimes of fond memories of The University of Texas and The University of Oklahoma will continue in it!

(07-30-2021 11:39 AM)JRsec Wrote:  Welcome to the SEC! My wife and I have a lifetime of fond memories of the SEC and I believe your lifetimes of fond memories of The University of Texas and The University of Oklahoma will continue in it!

Well Said!

Indeed, welcome Texas and OU!

Perhaps it is now time to cement the SEC as a top basketball conference as well as a top football and baseball conference. Let's consider taking Kansas and some schools to the East.

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech
*Duke

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Goergia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
*Wake Forest

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State
*Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*Tulane

The SEC becomes a Pan Southern Conference with 11 AAU programs.

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt and Tulane play each other annually and each gets 4 SEC games with full football members, and each serves as football independents. But, each is a full member of the SEC for basketball and baseball.

The 24 member SEC plays 10 conference games. 1 game against a partial member or against a G5, and 1 against the Big 10 which also has at least 24 full members.

This essentially ends realignment.

Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah

California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

(01-08-2022 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Perhaps it is now time to cement the SEC as a top basketball conference as well as a top football and baseball conference. Let's consider taking Kansas and some schools to the East.

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech
*Duke

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Goergia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
*Wake Forest

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State
*Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*Tulane

The SEC becomes a Pan Southern Conference with 11 AAU programs.

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt and Tulane play each other annually and each gets 4 SEC games with full football members, and each serves as football independents. But, each is a full member of the SEC for basketball and baseball.

The 24 member SEC plays 10 conference games. 1 game against a partial member or against a G5, and 1 against the Big 10 which also has at least 24 full members.

This essentially ends realignment.

Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah

California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

JR, If you can accept the Mizzou Tigers into the fold knowing that their brand of Tigers were named after union troops, I guess anything is possible, amirite? Go B1G, Go SEC or go home. Please let this XII nightmare be over.

(01-09-2022 01:14 PM)CO Jayhawk Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Perhaps it is now time to cement the SEC as a top basketball conference as well as a top football and baseball conference. Let's consider taking Kansas and some schools to the East.

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech
*Duke

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Goergia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
*Wake Forest

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State
*Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*Tulane

The SEC becomes a Pan Southern Conference with 11 AAU programs.

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt and Tulane play each other annually and each gets 4 SEC games with full football members, and each serves as football independents. But, each is a full member of the SEC for basketball and baseball.

The 24 member SEC plays 10 conference games. 1 game against a partial member or against a G5, and 1 against the Big 10 which also has at least 24 full members.

This essentially ends realignment.

Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah

California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

JR, If you can accept the Mizzou Tigers into the fold knowing that their brand of Tigers were named after union troops, I guess anything is possible, amirite? Go B1G, Go SEC or go home. Please let this XII nightmare be over.

I have no doubts over whether Kansas finds a solid conference. You will.

If the SEC stays at 16 (which I very much doubt) I see Kansas as #16 in the B1G with Notre Dame being #15. You would be there already if not for the ACC's GOR remaining viable until the SCOTUS rules athletes to be employees. That ruling will nullify existing contracts because it will create a huge overhead which imbalances the equity of contracts and each school will have to decide how it will move forward with regard to athletics. So GOR's will be nullified as well. In that environment the organizing principle for the NCAA (amateurism) is made moot and opens the door for new associations to be formed.

Should that decision be for employee status you will see massive movement everywhere. This is why I think conferences of 20 are likely and conferences of 24 possible. In any scenario of movement to 20 or more Kansas is of interest to the SEC. What's more is that the networks realize now that they have two inherently healthy conferences and 3 fatally flawed ones. So, a consolidation of top brands for basketball will drive the next round of realignment and Kansas, Duke, & North Carolina will lead the list in that order due to market reach and value assessments.

If the Big 10 wants to match SEC brand strength at 16 then Kansas and Notre Dame are essential. Warren knows he can't move on N.D. right this second and must wait. Until the SEC sees a ruling which permits the full monetization of hoops it can't move either because if that aspect doesn't change then Kansas, Duke, and North Carolina don't pay enough for entry. It's the wait that tortures Kansas fans because until you have a slot you always assume you won't. It's human nature.

IMO, any future moves only have 2 football brands (other than ND) which sans hoops can pay their way in, Clemson & FSU. Both have busted a gut to improve hoops because they know they have a tight window without AAU level academics.

Even if the Big 10 takes N.D. and Kansas to 16, I believe the SEC takes Duke and UNC and likely Virginia. As odd as that sounds to many it is for the same reasons Texas said yes. Enrollment is declining, competition for students increasing, and federal money decreasing. Branding is huge and exposure much more important and in spite of academic perceptions being associated with top sports leagues popular to the rank and file of your state will be crucial, as will gaining reputation in neighboring states. For UNC, much more so than Duke, that means a Southern brand. Duke and UNC want to stick together and sought safe haven in the SEC as a backup when Maryland departed. Virginia I could easily see opting B1G or even going amateur only Ivy style. But, for balance in Western most SEC division Kansas is the best fit, not for the whole SEC, but for recent Big 12 members which have moved and easily for Arkansas.

So, sit back and wait. You are not only going to be taken but could likely have choices. Basketball is worth slightly more than double if freed from the NCAA. Kansas is the available school with the highest valuation in hoops. Your program under the NCAA has a 300 million valuation. Qualification for SEC purposes requires a combined sports valuation of ~650 million. Your football is worth 200 million. So, double you hoops value plus some and add football and you are a no brainer with academics! Notre Dame's valuation for football is 900 million and hoops only adds about 70 million more. They are the #1 remaining product. Kansas is #2. FSU is #3, Louisville #4, and UNC #5 with hoops doubled. Louisville's issue is Kentucky is in the SEC, so they have no real market value for the SEC and academics are an issue. And if the SEC wants hoops brands and ESPN wants full access to them, we have Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia and Duke all of which have pedigree, strong hoops, and academics to meet our economic threshold, add new states, and improve our academics.

(01-09-2022 02:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 01:14 PM)CO Jayhawk Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Perhaps it is now time to cement the SEC as a top basketball conference as well as a top football and baseball conference. Let's consider taking Kansas and some schools to the East.

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech
*Duke

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Goergia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
*Wake Forest

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State
*Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*Tulane

The SEC becomes a Pan Southern Conference with 11 AAU programs.

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt and Tulane play each other annually and each gets 4 SEC games with full football members, and each serves as football independents. But, each is a full member of the SEC for basketball and baseball.

The 24 member SEC plays 10 conference games. 1 game against a partial member or against a G5, and 1 against the Big 10 which also has at least 24 full members.

This essentially ends realignment.

Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah

California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

JR, If you can accept the Mizzou Tigers into the fold knowing that their brand of Tigers were named after union troops, I guess anything is possible, amirite? Go B1G, Go SEC or go home. Please let this XII nightmare be over.

I have no doubts over whether Kansas finds a solid conference. You will.

If the SEC stays at 16 (which I very much doubt) I see Kansas as #16 in the B1G with Notre Dame being #15. You would be there already if not for the ACC's GOR remaining viable until the SCOTUS rules athletes to be employees. That ruling will nullify existing contracts because it will create a huge overhead which imbalances the equity of contracts and each school will have to decide how it will move forward with regard to athletics. So GOR's will be nullified as well. In that environment the organizing principle for the NCAA (amateurism) is made moot and opens the door for new associations to be formed.

Should that decision be for employee status you will see massive movement everywhere. This is why I think conferences of 20 are likely and conferences of 24 possible. In any scenario of movement to 20 or more Kansas is of interest to the SEC. What's more is that the networks realize now that they have two inherently healthy conferences and 3 fatally flawed ones. So, a consolidation of top brands for basketball will drive the next round of realignment and Kansas, Duke, & North Carolina will lead the list in that order due to market reach and value assessments.

If the Big 10 wants to match SEC brand strength at 16 then Kansas and Notre Dame are essential. Warren knows he can't move on N.D. right this second and must wait. Until the SEC sees a ruling which permits the full monetization of hoops it can't move either because if that aspect doesn't change then Kansas, Duke, and North Carolina don't pay enough for entry. It's the wait that tortures Kansas fans because until you have a slot you always assume you won't. It's human nature.

IMO, any future moves only have 2 football brands (other than ND) which sans hoops can pay their way in, Clemson & FSU. Both have busted a gut to improve hoops because they know they have a tight window without AAU level academics.

Even if the Big 10 takes N.D. and Kansas to 16, I believe the SEC takes Duke and UNC and likely Virginia. As odd as that sounds to many it is for the same reasons Texas said yes. Enrollment is declining, competition for students increasing, and federal money decreasing. Branding is huge and exposure much more important and in spite of academic perceptions being associated with top sports leagues popular to the rank and file of your state will be crucial, as will gaining reputation in neighboring states. For UNC, much more so than Duke, that means a Southern brand. Duke and UNC want to stick together and sought safe haven in the SEC as a backup when Maryland departed. Virginia I could easily see opting B1G or even going amateur only Ivy style. But, for balance in Western most SEC division Kansas is the best fit, not for the whole SEC, but for recent Big 12 members which have moved and easily for Arkansas.

So, sit back and wait. You are not only going to be taken but could likely have choices. Basketball is worth slightly more than double if freed from the NCAA. Kansas is the available school with the highest valuation in hoops. Your program under the NCAA has a 300 million valuation. Qualification for SEC purposes requires a combined sports valuation of ~650 million. Your football is worth 200 million. So, double you hoops value plus some and add football and you are a no brainer with academics! Notre Dame's valuation for football is 900 million and hoops only adds about 70 million more. They are the #1 remaining product. Kansas is #2. FSU is #3, Louisville #4, and UNC #5 with hoops doubled. Louisville's issue is Kentucky is in the SEC, so they have no real market value for the SEC and academics are an issue. And if the SEC wants hoops brands and ESPN wants full access to them, we have Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia and Duke all of which have pedigree, strong hoops, and academics to meet our economic threshold, add new states, and improve our academics.

I like the idea of that 4 for the SEC.

For the Big 12, you would have remaining:

BYU, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and UCF.

It's an 11 schools that are solid and belong in the same tier. If you take some ACC schools and add to the group then it's a pretty good conference.

Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

That's 9 ACC schools that could fit nicely in the Big 12 and now they've got their own 20.

The Big Ten and the PAC 12 have ample opportunity to work together in some capacity.

(01-09-2022 05:45 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 02:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-09-2022 01:14 PM)CO Jayhawk Wrote:  

(01-08-2022 01:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Perhaps it is now time to cement the SEC as a top basketball conference as well as a top football and baseball conference. Let's consider taking Kansas and some schools to the East.

Kentucky, North Carolina, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia, Virginia Tech
*Duke

Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Goergia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
*Wake Forest

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Miami, Mississippi, Mississippi State
*Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M
*Tulane

The SEC becomes a Pan Southern Conference with 11 AAU programs.

Duke, Wake Forest, Vanderbilt and Tulane play each other annually and each gets 4 SEC games with full football members, and each serves as football independents. But, each is a full member of the SEC for basketball and baseball.

The 24 member SEC plays 10 conference games. 1 game against a partial member or against a G5, and 1 against the Big 10 which also has at least 24 full members.

This essentially ends realignment.

Indiana, Maryland, Notre Dame, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers

Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Northwestern, Ohio State, Wisconsin

Arizona, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah

California, California Los Angeles, Oregon, Southern Cal, Stanford, Washington

JR, If you can accept the Mizzou Tigers into the fold knowing that their brand of Tigers were named after union troops, I guess anything is possible, amirite? Go B1G, Go SEC or go home. Please let this XII nightmare be over.

I have no doubts over whether Kansas finds a solid conference. You will.

If the SEC stays at 16 (which I very much doubt) I see Kansas as #16 in the B1G with Notre Dame being #15. You would be there already if not for the ACC's GOR remaining viable until the SCOTUS rules athletes to be employees. That ruling will nullify existing contracts because it will create a huge overhead which imbalances the equity of contracts and each school will have to decide how it will move forward with regard to athletics. So GOR's will be nullified as well. In that environment the organizing principle for the NCAA (amateurism) is made moot and opens the door for new associations to be formed.

Should that decision be for employee status you will see massive movement everywhere. This is why I think conferences of 20 are likely and conferences of 24 possible. In any scenario of movement to 20 or more Kansas is of interest to the SEC. What's more is that the networks realize now that they have two inherently healthy conferences and 3 fatally flawed ones. So, a consolidation of top brands for basketball will drive the next round of realignment and Kansas, Duke, & North Carolina will lead the list in that order due to market reach and value assessments.

If the Big 10 wants to match SEC brand strength at 16 then Kansas and Notre Dame are essential. Warren knows he can't move on N.D. right this second and must wait. Until the SEC sees a ruling which permits the full monetization of hoops it can't move either because if that aspect doesn't change then Kansas, Duke, and North Carolina don't pay enough for entry. It's the wait that tortures Kansas fans because until you have a slot you always assume you won't. It's human nature.

IMO, any future moves only have 2 football brands (other than ND) which sans hoops can pay their way in, Clemson & FSU. Both have busted a gut to improve hoops because they know they have a tight window without AAU level academics.

Even if the Big 10 takes N.D. and Kansas to 16, I believe the SEC takes Duke and UNC and likely Virginia. As odd as that sounds to many it is for the same reasons Texas said yes. Enrollment is declining, competition for students increasing, and federal money decreasing. Branding is huge and exposure much more important and in spite of academic perceptions being associated with top sports leagues popular to the rank and file of your state will be crucial, as will gaining reputation in neighboring states. For UNC, much more so than Duke, that means a Southern brand. Duke and UNC want to stick together and sought safe haven in the SEC as a backup when Maryland departed. Virginia I could easily see opting B1G or even going amateur only Ivy style. But, for balance in Western most SEC division Kansas is the best fit, not for the whole SEC, but for recent Big 12 members which have moved and easily for Arkansas.

So, sit back and wait. You are not only going to be taken but could likely have choices. Basketball is worth slightly more than double if freed from the NCAA. Kansas is the available school with the highest valuation in hoops. Your program under the NCAA has a 300 million valuation. Qualification for SEC purposes requires a combined sports valuation of ~650 million. Your football is worth 200 million. So, double you hoops value plus some and add football and you are a no brainer with academics! Notre Dame's valuation for football is 900 million and hoops only adds about 70 million more. They are the #1 remaining product. Kansas is #2. FSU is #3, Louisville #4, and UNC #5 with hoops doubled. Louisville's issue is Kentucky is in the SEC, so they have no real market value for the SEC and academics are an issue. And if the SEC wants hoops brands and ESPN wants full access to them, we have Kansas, North Carolina, Virginia and Duke all of which have pedigree, strong hoops, and academics to meet our economic threshold, add new states, and improve our academics.

I like the idea of that 4 for the SEC.

For the Big 12, you would have remaining:

BYU, Texas Tech, TCU, Baylor, Houston, Oklahoma State, Kansas State, Iowa State, Cincinnati, West Virginia, and UCF.

It's an 11 schools that are solid and belong in the same tier. If you take some ACC schools and add to the group then it's a pretty good conference.

Florida State, Miami, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech, Pittsburgh, and Syracuse.

That's 9 ACC schools that could fit nicely in the Big 12 and now they've got their own 20.

The Big Ten and the PAC 12 have ample opportunity to work together in some capacity.

In that scenario regarding an hypothetical ACC/B12 assimilation, three eight-team divisions may be in order for geographical sense. I say 22, by including Wake Forest and BC. Keep Notre Dame (to ft) and add an additional northeast school. That's 24.

West: TTU, Baylor, TCU, Houston, OK St., KSU, BYU, ISU,

North: Cincinnati, Louisville, Pitt, Syracuse, BC, West Virginia, *Notre Dame*, + (Navy, Temple, or UConn)

South Atlantic: GT, Clemson, NCSU, FSU, Miami, UCF, VA Tech, WFU

How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

(05-04-2022 02:03 AM)JRsec Wrote:  How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

(05-04-2022 06:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 02:03 AM)JRsec Wrote:  How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

(05-04-2022 12:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 06:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 02:03 AM)JRsec Wrote:  How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a school like Navy. More so, the schools on the East Coast that tap populations favorable to Notre Dame's base.

The Midwest and the East Coast are fertile grounds for Notre Dame viewers. If we got the Irish then there's a few heads in the Big Ten that have to turn because they know the jig is up.

(05-04-2022 09:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 12:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 06:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 02:03 AM)JRsec Wrote:  How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a school like Navy. More so, the schools on the East Coast that tap populations favorable to Notre Dame's base.

The Midwest and the East Coast are fertile grounds for Notre Dame viewers. If we got the Irish then there's a few heads in the Big Ten that have to turn because they know the jig is up.

ATU, ND want's access to solid recruiting in the states I listed. They own NE viewing so they don't need tagalongs. They want USC. It's not complicated. But yeah, ND & Kansas joining the SEC would be the equivalent of Dandy Don Meredith singing "Turn Out The Lights The Partys Over" to the B1G.

(05-04-2022 10:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 09:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 12:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 06:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 02:03 AM)JRsec Wrote:  How about a coup de grace ESPN style? Notre Dame and Kansas to 18. That duo leaves absolutely no way for anyone to catch the total values.

Then with Texas and Oklahoma ESPN will have acquired in the SEC the brands they sought for the ACC in 2011.

Then if ESPN wants us to take it to 24 with the brands they want from the ACC we add Clemson, Duke, Florida State, North Carolina, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a school like Navy. More so, the schools on the East Coast that tap populations favorable to Notre Dame's base.

The Midwest and the East Coast are fertile grounds for Notre Dame viewers. If we got the Irish then there's a few heads in the Big Ten that have to turn because they know the jig is up.

ATU, ND want's access to solid recruiting in the states I listed. They own NE viewing so they don't need tagalongs. They want USC. It's not complicated. But yeah, ND & Kansas joining the SEC would be the equivalent of Dandy Don Meredith singing "Turn Out The Lights The Partys Over" to the B1G.

I'd argue if Notre Dame is the linchpin here then the power play is Notre Dame, Florida State, UNC, and Duke.

Nothing against Kansas, of course, but by themselves they don't do much for the Big Ten anyway. The Big Ten needs football powerhouses more than anything else.

(05-08-2022 09:50 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 09:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 12:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 06:47 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  Culturally, Notre Dame fits pretty well in the Big Ten for obvious reasons, but would they hold their nose and go to that league?

Or would they take a similar strategy that led them to the ACC? A more expansive base along the East Coast and reaching deep into the South?

Who would we be willing to take if Notre Dame made a few demands? That's my question.

No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a school like Navy. More so, the schools on the East Coast that tap populations favorable to Notre Dame's base.

The Midwest and the East Coast are fertile grounds for Notre Dame viewers. If we got the Irish then there's a few heads in the Big Ten that have to turn because they know the jig is up.

ATU, ND want's access to solid recruiting in the states I listed. They own NE viewing so they don't need tagalongs. They want USC. It's not complicated. But yeah, ND & Kansas joining the SEC would be the equivalent of Dandy Don Meredith singing "Turn Out The Lights The Partys Over" to the B1G.

I'd argue if Notre Dame is the linchpin here then the power play is Notre Dame, Florida State, UNC, and Duke.

Nothing against Kansas, of course, but by themselves they don't do much for the Big Ten anyway. The Big Ten needs football powerhouses more than anything else.

Take all 5 and go divisionless or 3x7. If 3x7:

East: Duke, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, North Carolina, Notre Dame, South Carolina
South: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Kansas, LSU, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

(05-08-2022 09:38 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(05-08-2022 09:50 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 10:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 09:54 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(05-04-2022 12:17 PM)JRsec Wrote:  No one. We have Florida, Georgia, L.S.U., Texas and Texas A&M. All of those are solid recruiting areas and 3 of 4 states have large growing Catholic populations. We aren't taking Navy and ND only needs 1 free game to keep USC. Indiana is contiguous to Kentucky.

FSU would be a possible pairing. Kansas is available and helps balance football density, and Ohio State would be the grand slam.

I wasn't thinking in terms of a school like Navy. More so, the schools on the East Coast that tap populations favorable to Notre Dame's base.

The Midwest and the East Coast are fertile grounds for Notre Dame viewers. If we got the Irish then there's a few heads in the Big Ten that have to turn because they know the jig is up.

ATU, ND want's access to solid recruiting in the states I listed. They own NE viewing so they don't need tagalongs. They want USC. It's not complicated. But yeah, ND & Kansas joining the SEC would be the equivalent of Dandy Don Meredith singing "Turn Out The Lights The Partys Over" to the B1G.

I'd argue if Notre Dame is the linchpin here then the power play is Notre Dame, Florida State, UNC, and Duke.

Nothing against Kansas, of course, but by themselves they don't do much for the Big Ten anyway. The Big Ten needs football powerhouses more than anything else.

Take all 5 and go divisionless or 3x7. If 3x7:

East: Duke, Florida, Florida St, Georgia, North Carolina, Notre Dame, South Carolina
South: Alabama, Auburn, Kentucky, Mississippi, Mississippi St, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
West: Arkansas, Kansas, LSU, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M

No scheduling works out evenly for conference games with an odd number of teams.
20 or 22 and divisionless works out. No odd number can. It's why 20 and 24 work best and best regionally.

Let's wait and see what Vandy opts to do. At 24 you can take Notre Dame, Duke, North Carolina, Florida State, Clemson, Kansas, Virginia and Virginia Tech.

You pick up 2 in a state of over 9 million, 2 in a state of 11 million, 1 in a state of 23 million, a blue blood hoops school, a top 5 value school in ND, and a football heavy weight in Clemson.

Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Auburn, Clemson, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina

Alabama, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M