(07-01-2013 10:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:39 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:06 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Not true, Saint Louis and Richmond.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Hey, it's no big deal who they take...but people are going to see through this "we're a basketball league" veneer and see the decrepit core of faux/wanna-be Catholic Ivies that have a history of speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

They'll never be an A10, and I'm glad for that...but I just wish they wouldn't pick off the A10 in a way where great programs are left behind because of old grudges and little man syndromes.

You haven't been following this have you? If you have you would know that SLU is most definitely in the mix if they expand past 10. Do some research before you start talking about issues you clearly have no knowledge of.

I'm sure my fellow Big East posters would all agree that SLU and Richmond are squarely in the mix and that Wichita St. is a long shot at best. St. Joe's is stuck because no way Nova would let them in, and also that there are better options aka SLU, Dayton and VCU.

LOL, yeah, the same sources who had St. Louis and Dayton well ahead of Creighton, who they took anyway? No, clearly I'm clueless.

Again, it's cool. They got it right. Here's hoping they keep getting it so, and not reveal it's the same old routine.

Like I said, you must not have been following all of this. X and Butler were considered locks and Creighton and SLU were in the next group and Dayton, VCU and Richmond were in the third group if the league went to 12 schools.

I remember some major sources talking about a Big East stopping at 9 with SLU/CU/UD in later (CBS Sportsline reported it).

It's Big East day for the winners, so go celebrate your day! :)

(07-01-2013 10:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:39 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:06 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  Not true, Saint Louis and Richmond.

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Hey, it's no big deal who they take...but people are going to see through this "we're a basketball league" veneer and see the decrepit core of faux/wanna-be Catholic Ivies that have a history of speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

They'll never be an A10, and I'm glad for that...but I just wish they wouldn't pick off the A10 in a way where great programs are left behind because of old grudges and little man syndromes.

You haven't been following this have you? If you have you would know that SLU is most definitely in the mix if they expand past 10. Do some research before you start talking about issues you clearly have no knowledge of.

I'm sure my fellow Big East posters would all agree that SLU and Richmond are squarely in the mix and that Wichita St. is a long shot at best. St. Joe's is stuck because no way Nova would let them in, and also that there are better options aka SLU, Dayton and VCU.

LOL, yeah, the same sources who had St. Louis and Dayton well ahead of Creighton, who they took anyway? No, clearly I'm clueless.

Again, it's cool. They got it right. Here's hoping they keep getting it so, and not reveal it's the same old routine.

Like I said, you must not have been following all of this. X and Butler were considered locks and Creighton and SLU were in the next group and Dayton, VCU and Richmond were in the third group if the league went to 12 schools.

Ok, fine, whatever helps you get over it. Again, no worries, they got it right.

(07-01-2013 10:39 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:34 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 10:16 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:58 AM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 09:39 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Saying it doesn't make it so.

Hey, it's no big deal who they take...but people are going to see through this "we're a basketball league" veneer and see the decrepit core of faux/wanna-be Catholic Ivies that have a history of speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

They'll never be an A10, and I'm glad for that...but I just wish they wouldn't pick off the A10 in a way where great programs are left behind because of old grudges and little man syndromes.

You haven't been following this have you? If you have you would know that SLU is most definitely in the mix if they expand past 10. Do some research before you start talking about issues you clearly have no knowledge of.

I'm sure my fellow Big East posters would all agree that SLU and Richmond are squarely in the mix and that Wichita St. is a long shot at best. St. Joe's is stuck because no way Nova would let them in, and also that there are better options aka SLU, Dayton and VCU.

LOL, yeah, the same sources who had St. Louis and Dayton well ahead of Creighton, who they took anyway? No, clearly I'm clueless.

Again, it's cool. They got it right. Here's hoping they keep getting it so, and not reveal it's the same old routine.

Like I said, you must not have been following all of this. X and Butler were considered locks and Creighton and SLU were in the next group and Dayton, VCU and Richmond were in the third group if the league went to 12 schools.

Ok, fine, whatever helps you get over it. Again, no worries, they got it right.

Helps me get over what? I'm the mod of the Big East boards, i'm one of the few people on csnbbs who has been following this longer and closer than most. I'm pretty sure I know what i'm talking about.

(07-01-2013 10:38 AM)LouPower Wrote:  I remember some major sources talking about a Big East stopping at 9 with SLU/CU/UD in later (CBS Sportsline reported it).

Heck, it wasn't just nine...it started at eight. The rumors/news started with Dayton, Xavier, or Butler...to then "get comfortable" for a year, then expand later. When it became more clear it was 9 with added network interest to go further, rumors over #10 (and beyond) started going off to crazy-ville in terms of candidacy (SLU, UD, CU, Richmond, VCU, even heard Davidson and HC getting tossed).

That's where it seemed like Creighton was already written off. It was like people equated SLU's market and the current footprint to be the sole determinant in swaying opinion or speculation. It wasn't just Creighton, either, who seemed to fall off...I remember Dayton being tossed around almost since the beginning. I guess Xavier makes that addition a bit more difficult, and people stopped talking about them.

The original 5 from the get go that Andy Katz published was X, Butler, Creighton, Dayton and Saint Louis. Later on word about VCU and Richmond started to surface. Richmond was the fall back plan if they wanted an eastern school but didn't want to go public. Gonzaga was mentioned early on but was quickly dismissed because of their location.

I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

(07-01-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

I believed at the time of the post that Robbins had gotten Dayton and Creighton confused. Dayton is a solid program with amazing fan support, but its primary flaw is that it is too close to Xavier.

Xavier and Butler both appeared to be shoe ins from day one. If ten was going to be the starting number, Creighton and Saint Louis were the two best candidates. Saint Louis had a clear edge on TV market and travel, but Creighton had a clear edge on attendance. I expect that it was a close decision.

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Dayton was never considered the first team in. Butler beating Indiana the same weekend all but assured them of that spot. Xavier was also considered a lock from day one. 10 or 12 were always the only options, anything saying more or less than that was never a real option.

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Dayton was never considered the first team in. Butler beating Indiana the same weekend all but assured them of that spot. Xavier was also considered a lock from day one. 10 or 12 were always the only options, anything saying more or less than that was never a real option.

Don't overestimate the impact of a single regular season game. Butler could have crapped the bed in that game and, with back-to-back Final Fours, it wouldn't have made any difference. XAvier had a down year, it's not like anyone raised that as an objection.

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

Going on the reporting that opened this thread, consider what "the inside word" would have been for someone who had a source who knew the thinking of Creighton's AD ... who thought until very late in the process that Creighton was a very long shot.

So it seems quite likely that the rumor mongering and inside sources with very limited views of the process was what was all over the place, while the process of coming to a consensus was a fairly orderly process given the time frame they were working in.

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Reading the full article, the "chance encounter" was the President of one Jesuit University making use of one link of his networking with another Jesuit University President ... but while it may have been chance which connection he used on which precise day, it was not chance that the President of Creighton was pulling on all of the strings that he had available.

(07-01-2013 02:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:42 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  I remember Lenn Robbins reporting it as a done deal that Xavier, Butler & Dayton were in for this season. Creighton & St. Louis to follow in 2014.

If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Dayton was never considered the first team in. Butler beating Indiana the same weekend all but assured them of that spot. Xavier was also considered a lock from day one. 10 or 12 were always the only options, anything saying more or less than that was never a real option.

Don't overestimate the impact of a single regular season game. Butler could have crapped the bed in that game and, with back-to-back Final Fours, it wouldn't have made any difference. XAvier had a down year, it's not like anyone raised that as an objection.

Well my point was just that the day after they announced they were leaving Butler beat the #1 team in the country on national TV. Their past accomplishments got them in, but that game really solidified them in everyones minds as the #1 team to add. You know everyone in the C7 at the very least saw the outcome of that game and said "wow".

(07-01-2013 02:24 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

Going on the reporting that opened this thread, consider what "the inside word" would have been for someone who had a source who knew the thinking of Creighton's AD ... who thought until very late in the process that Creighton was a very long shot.

So it seems quite likely that the rumor mongering and inside sources with very limited views of the process was what was all over the place, while the process of coming to a consensus was a fairly orderly process given the time frame they were working in.

I think that Creighton is being very humble. Their president sits on Marquettes board. They had a very strong ally in the Golden Eagles from the get go. I think the story and those telling it embellished a bit to make it seem more dramatic than it was.

(07-01-2013 02:24 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

Going on the reporting that opened this thread, consider what "the inside word" would have been for someone who had a source who knew the thinking of Creighton's AD ... who thought until very late in the process that Creighton was a very long shot.

So it seems quite likely that the rumor mongering and inside sources with very limited views of the process was what was all over the place, while the process of coming to a consensus was a fairly orderly process given the time frame they were working in.

Oh, I believe it. Reading the emails from VU's AD and president about the change, and from what they were willing to project, it sounded like they needed some time to get their head straight as a program, as part of this collective of programs.

The situation organically developed from there, beyond one school's perspective. Much like scenes get cut from a movie, songs from albums and Broadway shows, putting a conference together is a collaborative effort with interchangeable parts. They figured it out. It's just the rampant speculation mixed in with fact; the cacophony of added parts that make it so difficult to interpret, which adds itself to the overall story, because it's part of the story, too.

(07-01-2013 02:33 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 01:55 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  If you ask any of the folks who follow the Big East closely who would be the eleventh team in if they ever expand they would all tell you SLU. The disagreement comes when it comes to who #12 would be. VCU, Richmond and Dayton are all on that short list.

But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Dayton was never considered the first team in. Butler beating Indiana the same weekend all but assured them of that spot. Xavier was also considered a lock from day one. 10 or 12 were always the only options, anything saying more or less than that was never a real option.

Don't overestimate the impact of a single regular season game. Butler could have crapped the bed in that game and, with back-to-back Final Fours, it wouldn't have made any difference. XAvier had a down year, it's not like anyone raised that as an objection.

Well my point was just that the day after they announced they were leaving Butler beat the #1 team in the country on national TV. Their past accomplishments got them in, but that game really solidified them in everyones minds as the #1 team to add. You know everyone in the C7 at the very least saw the outcome of that game and said "wow".

True, but Xavier is the school that's been on the radar for ten years as the target addition in the event of a split between football and basketball in the Big East. Butler actually duplicates Notre Dame in the Indianapolis TV market (ND does local team level ratings in Indy and Chicago), so until ND left, Butler was not a priority.

(07-01-2013 08:27 PM)orangefan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:33 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:22 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(07-01-2013 02:10 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  But what's that opinion even worth? It's just quibbling over what sounds like what made the most sense. This thing was all over the place, and there was a time when it seemed like the C7 presidents had their plan, and then a point where the network partner had theirs. Especially when Dayton's factored...they went from #8 to...12-14?

That doesn't sound like good instinct. In fact, to those on the A10 side, while a lot of people suspected Xavier and Butler were history, there were those who thought by getting Butler, Xavier (and Butler) were happy enough to stay in the A10 (at least for Butler's sake...what they would pay in buyouts and fees, etc.). And maybe that's where Dayton's candidacy was strengthened. A lot of speculation...

With Creighton, it sounded like a chance encounter between their people and Marquette's. And Marquette smelled a winner...a school that is rabid about its team, and one that outdraws many of its future conference-mates. Win-win.

Dayton was never considered the first team in. Butler beating Indiana the same weekend all but assured them of that spot. Xavier was also considered a lock from day one. 10 or 12 were always the only options, anything saying more or less than that was never a real option.

Don't overestimate the impact of a single regular season game. Butler could have crapped the bed in that game and, with back-to-back Final Fours, it wouldn't have made any difference. XAvier had a down year, it's not like anyone raised that as an objection.

Well my point was just that the day after they announced they were leaving Butler beat the #1 team in the country on national TV. Their past accomplishments got them in, but that game really solidified them in everyones minds as the #1 team to add. You know everyone in the C7 at the very least saw the outcome of that game and said "wow".

True, but Xavier is the school that's been on the radar for ten years as the target addition in the event of a split between football and basketball in the Big East. Butler actually duplicates Notre Dame in the Indianapolis TV market (ND does local team level ratings in Indy and Chicago), so until ND left, Butler was not a priority.

Well ND left before the split so i'm not sure what you mean.

(06-30-2013 02:05 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 01:25 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 09:20 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  Interesting read. I would like to know the "story" of what happened witht he other schools involved, both those invited and not

Exactly. In case I missed it, the article did a good job of explaining why Creighton was a Big East candidate, but did not really explain why it was chosen ahead of schools like St. Louis.

Are you serious? In a basketball-centered conference, you pick the better basketball program. That's Creighton by a long country mile.

This obsession with markets has got to come to an end. It's inventory, not sets.

Like St Louis is not a BB school... enjoy the exciting trips to Omaha.

(07-01-2013 09:31 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 02:05 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 01:25 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(06-30-2013 09:20 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  Interesting read. I would like to know the "story" of what happened witht he other schools involved, both those invited and not

Exactly. In case I missed it, the article did a good job of explaining why Creighton was a Big East candidate, but did not really explain why it was chosen ahead of schools like St. Louis.

Are you serious? In a basketball-centered conference, you pick the better basketball program. That's Creighton by a long country mile.

This obsession with markets has got to come to an end. It's inventory, not sets.

Like St Louis is not a BB school... enjoy the exciting trips to Omaha.

I think the world is ending. I'm giving props to a Mizzou fan. I guess the Mayans were off a few months.

Mizzou is a hell of a lot better than I give them credit for because of the SLU thing.