(06-09-2013 09:12 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:05 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 10:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wasn't aware he was that high on the list. I mainly remember him running around making defenders dizzy before he passed or ran out of bounds. He was fun to watch.

He was definitely not a Vick, Cunningham, Vince Young or Cam Newton type runner who were more likely to take punishment. Manziel has an uncanny ability to avoid big hits, but still runs more like a Vick, et. al. than a Fran. Don't think that skill will be as successful in avoiding hits with the faster NFL defenders.

And still over 18 years, 14 games a year (maybe fewer in his first couple of seasons before they went to 14 games), 3,674 yards is just 15 yards a game.

A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.

Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.

I agree they can't be changed. Philly tried to make Vick a pocket guy and have almost gotten him killed. That said, running will expose knees and shorten careers, and it will eventually get to Cam Newton too. QB's need to learn to get their reads down field... if you are running you are not looking. There is always a safety valve for the blitz. Ours was Marshall Faulk in St Louis.

St. Louis has a new one in Tavon Austin...

Yes we do. Can't wait to see those two WVU kids on the field.

(06-09-2013 11:52 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 01:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...

Tarkenton was a scrambler who ran away from hits often because he was pressured.

I remember seeing Tarkenton running from one side of the field to the other, and then back again and again, until he found a man open downfield. By the 3rd quarter, many defense were so tired of chasing him around that they didn't put a whole lot of effort into it. Most GMs thought he was no good, and he made them all look like fools. I wonder what percentage of his incomplete passes is due to offensive linemen being illegally downfield by the time he finally threw the ball...

(06-09-2013 01:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-09-2013 09:12 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:05 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  A quarterback should only run to get out of trouble, or if there is an insanely big hole.

Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.

I agree they can't be changed. Philly tried to make Vick a pocket guy and have almost gotten him killed. That said, running will expose knees and shorten careers, and it will eventually get to Cam Newton too. QB's need to learn to get their reads down field... if you are running you are not looking. There is always a safety valve for the blitz. Ours was Marshall Faulk in St Louis.

St. Louis has a new one in Tavon Austin...

Yes we do. Can't wait to see those two WVU kids on the field.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do for the Rams myself. I'll Bradford is tickled pick to have Austin and Bailey. The greatest show on turf is about to make an encore performance...

(06-09-2013 02:15 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-09-2013 11:52 AM)Sactowndog Wrote:  

(06-05-2013 01:42 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  bullet, Fran Tarkenton, the original running QB, played 18 years in the NFL...

Tarkenton was a scrambler who ran away from hits often because he was pressured.

I remember seeing Tarkenton running from one side of the field to the other, and then back again and again, until he found a man open downfield. By the 3rd quarter, many defense were so tired of chasing him around that they didn't put a whole lot of effort into it. Most GMs thought he was no good, and he made them all look like fools. I wonder what percentage of his incomplete passes is due to offensive linemen being illegally downfield by the time he finally threw the ball...

(06-09-2013 01:13 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-09-2013 09:12 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:51 PM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  

(06-08-2013 11:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Most QBs, yes. Cam Newton, though, weighs 245 -- more than every RB who ran for 1,000 yards last year. Of those RBs, only Steven Jackson (240) is even within 20 pounds of Newton's weight.

Also, if you forbade Newton or RG3 from running, you'd take away much of their effectiveness. The possibility of getting burned by a QB run makes pass defenses less aggressive. It would be a mistake to try to turn either of those guys into Peyton Manning.

I agree they can't be changed. Philly tried to make Vick a pocket guy and have almost gotten him killed. That said, running will expose knees and shorten careers, and it will eventually get to Cam Newton too. QB's need to learn to get their reads down field... if you are running you are not looking. There is always a safety valve for the blitz. Ours was Marshall Faulk in St Louis.

St. Louis has a new one in Tavon Austin...

Yes we do. Can't wait to see those two WVU kids on the field.

I'm looking forward to seeing what they do for the Rams myself. I'll Bradford is tickled pick to have Austin and Bailey. The greatest show on turf is about to make an encore performance...

I can dream... Like I said after the draft...these kids have learned to read each other on the field. That is a big plus...

A few quick points in regards to this thread being allover the place:

(1) I made comments at the time of the Texas A&M move and still stand by them; the Texas A&M move to the SEC is probably the biggest move of the last 50 years. The reasons are to many to list but I’ll list a few….TV, recruiting, culture fit, rabid fan base, BIG BUDGET PROGRAM, expanding to 100,000 stadium, tradition, AND THE OBVIOUS OF HAVING A SCHOOL OF THIS STATURE IN THE SEC (FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS) and everything it adds to the conference as a whole in every aspect could very well relegate the Big10 or whoever to a distant second place at least for the next 25 years. Does that mean the SEC wins the next 25 championships? NO!!!!!!! What it means is the SEC is always every season going to be competing for all the marbles and more so than any other conference, by a significant margin. This is regardless of 4 or 8 team playoff, the more spots the better for the SEC because they are consistently going to offer more teams to the new format and the future one once it expands to 8 or even more long term. The out going BCS format has been nothing short of just TOTAL DOMINATION BY THE SEC as evidenced by having 5 different teams win it all (nine championships I think) over 14 years or however long it’s been and having won the last 7 in a row. No one and I mean no one CAN CLAIM a RECRUITING FOOTPRINT anything close to the likes of having states FLORIDA, GEORGIA, AND TEXAS under the same umbrella as anchors for ELITE high school players. Some people in media and fandom sometimes forget when you cut through all the BS EVERYTHING comes down to ELITE players and those just below the elite category…..whichever programs and conferences consistently year in year out has the most of these type of players has such a huge advantage and larger margin for error.

And I’ll state it before someone else does. I know the state of Texas is Big12 recruiting ground. I also know it’s now SEC recruiting ground on a much larger scale than in the past. LSU and Arkansas have always recruited Texas, now all the Elite SEC programs are in the game more so than in the past. The biggest benefactor BY FAR is to Texas A&M, just look at the class they have coming in this season, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE NORM FROM NOW ON. Yes, the same TEXAS A&M that is now in the SEC and no longer associated with the Longhorns….in fact they severed a 100 year rivalry (for now) to make this move and Texas was unable to stop it……let me repeat that again, Texas was unable to stop it…..those that live in Texas understand where I’m coming from on that one. The Texas A&M brand is by far GREATER AND MORE VALUABLE in the SEC than it ever was in the Big 12….this is the type of brand that can turn into a truly ELITE BRAND long term, especially when considering the tradition and infrastructure was already in place to begin with.

(2) Case Keenum gets NFL paycheck and that’s the bottom line….PERIOD!

(3) Starting QB’s by conference:

Everyone can form their own opinions but I would submit the SEC grouping as a whole is the better of the others in terms of having the most FRANCHISE QB’S. There isn’t any one conference just flat out turning out franchise QB’s at a clip head and shoulders above everyone else….in fact they are all about even as of today. There are lots of backups for all conferences and no need in getting into all that. I’m just saying the SEC has its share of FRANCHISE QB’S.

ACC QBs

Matt Schaub
Matt Ryan
Thaddeus Lewis
Christian Ponder
Philip Rivers


Big 10 QBs

Brian Hoyer
Chad Henne
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Terrelle Pryor
Russell Wilson (should be in the ACC column)

Big 12 QBs

Ryan Tannihill
RGIII
John Freeman
Sam Bradford

SEC
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Cam Newton

PAC 12

Mark Sanchez
Andrew Luck
Aaron Rodgers



(4) Is Lacrosse a big revenue sport that moves the needle? Is Lacrosse even a serious sport in terms of mass appeal across the entire country? I think everyone would freely admit FB/BB are the revenue sports that do all the heavy lifting in terms of money to fund not only FB/BB but the entire athletic budgets of most schools. Is Lacrosse the kind of sport that could stand on it’s on in multiple conferences without the FB/BB money? Could Lacrosse stand on its own even in the best Lacrosse league without FB/BB money? Is Lacrosse even a MAJOR SPORT? Who actually watches Lacrosse? Would it be common to see even 6 or 7 thousand average attendance even for the best Lacrosse programs? What are the top 20 Lacrosse programs average attendance? Again, is Lacrosse even a serious sport in terms of mass appeal? I only brought up Lacrosse because I’ve read here and other places about the Big 10 Lacrosse thing like it was some kind of major news…..I don’t for one minute think it’s major news and neither do I think it’ll have any impact whatsoever. Is college Lacrosse an urban inner city sport, a rural sport, or an elitist sport? If it’s not urban, city, and rural on a mass scale it’s not going to get much traction, not now not ever. I’m serious because I have no idea, is Lacrosse recruiting primarily a private school thing? Where do the top and the majority of Lacrosse players come from, public or private high schools? Just curious, does anyone TRULY know. Are there any Lacrosse recruiting junkies around here that might know?

(5) Is Lacrosse a bigger college sport than college baseball? I ask because I was watching the super regional the other night and saw where Indiana is the first BIG10 college baseball program to get to Omaha in 29 years, if I’m not mistaken. Wonder if Lacrosse becomes a priority over baseball for the Big10 as a whole? It might because baseball isn’t very high on the list for the conference as a whole to begin with.

(6) I have nothing against Lacrosse or the conferences that sponsor the sport. I just think it’s rather silly if anyone really thinks this sport has any impact on the financials of any program or TV contract.

(06-11-2013 09:47 AM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  A few quick points in regards to this thread being allover the place:

(1) I made comments at the time of the Texas A&M move and still stand by them; the Texas A&M move to the SEC is probably the biggest move of the last 50 years. The reasons are to many to list but I’ll list a few….TV, recruiting, culture fit, rabid fan base, BIG BUDGET PROGRAM, expanding to 100,000 stadium, tradition, AND THE OBVIOUS OF HAVING A SCHOOL OF THIS STATURE IN THE SEC (FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS) and everything it adds to the conference as a whole in every aspect could very well relegate the Big10 or whoever to a distant second place at least for the next 25 years. Does that mean the SEC wins the next 25 championships? NO!!!!!!! What it means is the SEC is always every season going to be competing for all the marbles and more so than any other conference, by a significant margin. This is regardless of 4 or 8 team playoff, the more spots the better for the SEC because they are consistently going to offer more teams to the new format and the future one once it expands to 8 or even more long term. The out going BCS format has been nothing short of just TOTAL DOMINATION BY THE SEC as evidenced by having 5 different teams win it all (nine championships I think) over 14 years or however long it’s been and having won the last 7 in a row. No one and I mean no one CAN CLAIM a RECRUITING FOOTPRINT anything close to the likes of having states FLORIDA, GEORGIA, AND TEXAS under the same umbrella as anchors for ELITE high school players. Some people in media and fandom sometimes forget when you cut through all the BS EVERYTHING comes down to ELITE players and those just below the elite category…..whichever programs and conferences consistently year in year out has the most of these type of players has such a huge advantage and larger margin for error.

And I’ll state it before someone else does. I know the state of Texas is Big12 recruiting ground. I also know it’s now SEC recruiting ground on a much larger scale than in the past. LSU and Arkansas have always recruited Texas, now all the Elite SEC programs are in the game more so than in the past. The biggest benefactor BY FAR is to Texas A&M, just look at the class they have coming in this season, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE NORM FROM NOW ON. Yes, the same TEXAS A&M that is now in the SEC and no longer associated with the Longhorns….in fact they severed a 100 year rivalry (for now) to make this move and Texas was unable to stop it……let me repeat that again, Texas was unable to stop it…..those that live in Texas understand where I’m coming from on that one. The Texas A&M brand is by far GREATER AND MORE VALUABLE in the SEC than it ever was in the Big 12….this is the type of brand that can turn into a truly ELITE BRAND long term, especially when considering the tradition and infrastructure was already in place to begin with.

(2) Case Keenum gets NFL paycheck and that’s the bottom line….PERIOD!

(3) Starting QB’s by conference:

Everyone can form their own opinions but I would submit the SEC grouping as a whole is the better of the others in terms of having the most FRANCHISE QB’S. There isn’t any one conference just flat out turning out franchise QB’s at a clip head and shoulders above everyone else….in fact they are all about even as of today. There are lots of backups for all conferences and no need in getting into all that. I’m just saying the SEC has its share of FRANCHISE QB’S.

ACC QBs

Matt Schaub
Matt Ryan
Thaddeus Lewis
Christian Ponder
Philip Rivers


Big 10 QBs

Brian Hoyer
Chad Henne
Tom Brady
Drew Brees
Terrelle Pryor
Russell Wilson (should be in the ACC column)

Big 12 QBs

Ryan Tannihill
RGIII
John Freeman
Sam Bradford

SEC
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Matthew Stafford
Jay Cutler
Cam Newton

PAC 12

Mark Sanchez
Andrew Luck
Aaron Rodgers



(4) Is Lacrosse a big revenue sport that moves the needle? Is Lacrosse even a serious sport in terms of mass appeal across the entire country? I think everyone would freely admit FB/BB are the revenue sports that do all the heavy lifting in terms of money to fund not only FB/BB but the entire athletic budgets of most schools. Is Lacrosse the kind of sport that could stand on it’s on in multiple conferences without the FB/BB money? Could Lacrosse stand on its own even in the best Lacrosse league without FB/BB money? Is Lacrosse even a MAJOR SPORT? Who actually watches Lacrosse? Would it be common to see even 6 or 7 thousand average attendance even for the best Lacrosse programs? What are the top 20 Lacrosse programs average attendance? Again, is Lacrosse even a serious sport in terms of mass appeal? I only brought up Lacrosse because I’ve read here and other places about the Big 10 Lacrosse thing like it was some kind of major news…..I don’t for one minute think it’s major news and neither do I think it’ll have any impact whatsoever. Is college Lacrosse an urban inner city sport, a rural sport, or an elitist sport? If it’s not urban, city, and rural on a mass scale it’s not going to get much traction, not now not ever. I’m serious because I have no idea, is Lacrosse recruiting primarily a private school thing? Where do the top and the majority of Lacrosse players come from, public or private high schools? Just curious, does anyone TRULY know. Are there any Lacrosse recruiting junkies around here that might know?

(5) Is Lacrosse a bigger college sport than college baseball? I ask because I was watching the super regional the other night and saw where Indiana is the first BIG10 college baseball program to get to Omaha in 29 years, if I’m not mistaken. Wonder if Lacrosse becomes a priority over baseball for the Big10 as a whole? It might because baseball isn’t very high on the list for the conference as a whole to begin with.

(6) I have nothing against Lacrosse or the conferences that sponsor the sport. I just think it’s rather silly if anyone really thinks this sport has any impact on the financials of any program or TV contract.

You might as well add Geno Smith to the B12 list, since he has as good a chance at starting for the Jets as Sanchez. Maybe even better, since he has no history of turning the ball over yet, like Sanchez does...

1. Penn St. to the big 10 was the biggest move. That lead to the disintegration of the independents and Arkansas to the SEC which sped the demise of the SWC which still reverberates.
2. Florida hiring Steve Spurrier and waking up their program was the 2nd biggest. That led to the rise of Florida and helped all the SEC. Florida had no official SEC titles prior to Spurrier.

I've got to agree with you about lacrosse. I know lots of people who have played football, basketball, baseball/softball, track, swimming, tennis and golf at HS or college level and many more at other levels. I've known (although not anyone over 45) a number who play soccer. I've known people who did wrestling, gymnastics and hockey. I've known people who did rugby and ultimate. I cannot say I personally know a single person who has ever played lacrosse.

(06-11-2013 01:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  1. Penn St. to the big 10 was the biggest move. That lead to the disintegration of the independents and Arkansas to the SEC which sped the demise of the SWC which still reverberates.
2. Florida hiring Steve Spurrier and waking up their program was the 2nd biggest. That led to the rise of Florida and helped all the SEC. Florida had no official SEC titles prior to Spurrier.

I've got to agree with you about lacrosse. I know lots of people who have played football, basketball, baseball/softball, track, swimming, tennis and golf at HS or college level and many more at other levels. I've known (although not anyone over 45) a number who play soccer. I've known people who did wrestling, gymnastics and hockey. I've known people who did rugby and ultimate. I cannot say I personally know a single person who has ever played lacrosse.

I agree that Penn State to the B1G was more important to the entire landscape than TAMU to the SEC, but while Penn State is a great fit for the B1G, I'm not sure a major conference move has ever been a more natural fit from the word "Go" as TAMU to the SEC. The only two moves that I can see ever being at that level is Texas or UNC moving conferences. Both would destabilize the Big 12 and ACC, respectively, to a point where I think the other conferences would quickly become homes for the other members of that affected conference. In theory, the PAC, SEC, and Big 10 could all lose a top school and still survive and be elite. I'm not sure the Big 12 or ACC could survive that right now.

The long term implication of Texas A&M move to the SEC is going to far outweigh the Penn St move to the Big10 in my opinion. Of course I cannot prove it because we arent 5/10/15/20 years into the future yet. However, I really believe it.

I was talking about programs changing conferences, not coaching hires. The program is a constant over time while coaches are not. There are tons of coaching hires that moved the needle, like Jimmy Johnson to Miami and lots of others. A tradition rich program moving conferences is what I was talking about.

I don't think Penn St to the BIG10 and Arkansas to the SEC are related whatsoever. What tore the SWC apart was scandal and every school was cheating for the most part, even the ones that were never hammered like SMU we cheating. Look no further than SMU as a SWC member and peel back the onion of the entire conference back then and everything was just rotten to the core...that in my opinion was at the root of the demise of the old SWC.

Things are different today than back then, the TV money, carriage fees, and not to mention conference networks and the way things operate now as opposed to then is like night and day. The reasons just mentioned is why these BIG POWER conferences are all jokying for postion by adding programs and the best big brands (some cases shaky brands) combined with the markets, heck some of these brands transcend a single or state market. Conference realignment has been going on and off forever. Penn St to the Big10 did not cause the SEC to add a school just to keep up with the jones, at least not in my opinion.

Penn St was eventually going to have to join a league regardless. Seems like at one time they wanted to head up a Northeaster league with some of the OLD BIG EAST schools but it never went anywhere. Penn St was not a Notred Dame.....although they were and still are a power brand, for now.

(06-11-2013 03:56 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  The long term implication of Texas A&M move to the SEC is going to far outweigh the Penn St move to the Big10 in my opinion. Of course I cannot prove it because we arent 5/10/15/20 years into the future yet. However, I really believe it.

I was talking about programs changing conferences, not coaching hires. The program is a constant over time while coaches are not. There are tons of coaching hires that moved the needle, like Jimmy Johnson to Miami and lots of others. A tradition rich program moving conferences is what I was talking about.

I don't think Penn St to the BIG10 and Arkansas to the SEC are related whatsoever. What tore the SWC apart was scandal and every school was cheating for the most part, even the ones that were never hammered like SMU we cheating. Look no further than SMU as a SWC member and peel back the onion of the entire conference back then and everything was just rotten to the core...that in my opinion was at the root of the demise of the old SWC.

Things are different today than back then, the TV money, carriage fees, and not to mention conference networks and the way things operate now as opposed to then is like night and day. The reasons just mentioned is why these BIG POWER conferences are all jokying for postion by adding programs and the best big brands (some cases shaky brands) combined with the markets, heck some of these brands transcend a single or state market. Conference realignment has been going on and off forever. Penn St to the Big10 did not cause the SEC to add a school just to keep up with the jones, at least not in my opinion.

Penn St was eventually going to have to join a league regardless. Seems like at one time they wanted to head up a Northeaster league with some of the OLD BIG EAST schools but it never went anywhere. Penn St was not a Notred Dame.....although they were and still are a power brand, for now.

Penn St. moving lead the SEC to consider expansion. That drove that whole round, the creation of the Big East, FSU to the ACC and Arkansas and S. Carolina to the SEC. SWC probably breaks up anyway, but that sped the process. The cheating sped the process. It was the Cowboys and Oilers and the end of the NCAA TV monopoly that killed the SWC. It just took a while for the decline of TCU, SMU and Rice to hurt enough.

(06-11-2013 04:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-11-2013 03:56 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  The long term implication of Texas A&M move to the SEC is going to far outweigh the Penn St move to the Big10 in my opinion. Of course I cannot prove it because we arent 5/10/15/20 years into the future yet. However, I really believe it.

I was talking about programs changing conferences, not coaching hires. The program is a constant over time while coaches are not. There are tons of coaching hires that moved the needle, like Jimmy Johnson to Miami and lots of others. A tradition rich program moving conferences is what I was talking about.

I don't think Penn St to the BIG10 and Arkansas to the SEC are related whatsoever. What tore the SWC apart was scandal and every school was cheating for the most part, even the ones that were never hammered like SMU we cheating. Look no further than SMU as a SWC member and peel back the onion of the entire conference back then and everything was just rotten to the core...that in my opinion was at the root of the demise of the old SWC.

Things are different today than back then, the TV money, carriage fees, and not to mention conference networks and the way things operate now as opposed to then is like night and day. The reasons just mentioned is why these BIG POWER conferences are all jokying for postion by adding programs and the best big brands (some cases shaky brands) combined with the markets, heck some of these brands transcend a single or state market. Conference realignment has been going on and off forever. Penn St to the Big10 did not cause the SEC to add a school just to keep up with the jones, at least not in my opinion.

Penn St was eventually going to have to join a league regardless. Seems like at one time they wanted to head up a Northeaster league with some of the OLD BIG EAST schools but it never went anywhere. Penn St was not a Notred Dame.....although they were and still are a power brand, for now.

Penn St. moving lead the SEC to consider expansion. That drove that whole round, the creation of the Big East, FSU to the ACC and Arkansas and S. Carolina to the SEC. SWC probably breaks up anyway, but that sped the process. The cheating sped the process. It was the Cowboys and Oilers and the end of the NCAA TV monopoly that killed the SWC. It just took a while for the decline of TCU, SMU and Rice to hurt enough.

For anyone who thinks this stuff has been moving quickly in the last few years, look at what happened in this period of less than a year:

Dec. 15, 1989: Big Ten invites Penn State (PSU's first Big Ten FB season was 1993).

Feb. 5, 1990: Notre Dame announces its departure from CFA and its new TV deal with NBC.

August 2, 1990: Arkansas accepts invitation to join SEC.

September 15, 1990: Florida State accepts invitation to join ACC.

September 26, 1990: South Carolina accepts its SEC invitation.

October 9, 1990: Big East announces it has invited Miami to join.

(06-11-2013 06:24 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(06-11-2013 04:48 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(06-11-2013 03:56 PM)Tiger8589 Wrote:  The long term implication of Texas A&M move to the SEC is going to far outweigh the Penn St move to the Big10 in my opinion. Of course I cannot prove it because we arent 5/10/15/20 years into the future yet. However, I really believe it.

I was talking about programs changing conferences, not coaching hires. The program is a constant over time while coaches are not. There are tons of coaching hires that moved the needle, like Jimmy Johnson to Miami and lots of others. A tradition rich program moving conferences is what I was talking about.

I don't think Penn St to the BIG10 and Arkansas to the SEC are related whatsoever. What tore the SWC apart was scandal and every school was cheating for the most part, even the ones that were never hammered like SMU we cheating. Look no further than SMU as a SWC member and peel back the onion of the entire conference back then and everything was just rotten to the core...that in my opinion was at the root of the demise of the old SWC.

Things are different today than back then, the TV money, carriage fees, and not to mention conference networks and the way things operate now as opposed to then is like night and day. The reasons just mentioned is why these BIG POWER conferences are all jokying for postion by adding programs and the best big brands (some cases shaky brands) combined with the markets, heck some of these brands transcend a single or state market. Conference realignment has been going on and off forever. Penn St to the Big10 did not cause the SEC to add a school just to keep up with the jones, at least not in my opinion.

Penn St was eventually going to have to join a league regardless. Seems like at one time they wanted to head up a Northeaster league with some of the OLD BIG EAST schools but it never went anywhere. Penn St was not a Notred Dame.....although they were and still are a power brand, for now.

Penn St. moving lead the SEC to consider expansion. That drove that whole round, the creation of the Big East, FSU to the ACC and Arkansas and S. Carolina to the SEC. SWC probably breaks up anyway, but that sped the process. The cheating sped the process. It was the Cowboys and Oilers and the end of the NCAA TV monopoly that killed the SWC. It just took a while for the decline of TCU, SMU and Rice to hurt enough.

For anyone who thinks this stuff has been moving quickly in the last few years, look at what happened in this period of less than a year:

Dec. 15, 1989: Big Ten invites Penn State (PSU's first Big Ten FB season was 1993).

Feb. 5, 1990: Notre Dame announces its departure from CFA and its new TV deal with NBC.

August 2, 1990: Arkansas accepts invitation to join SEC.

September 15, 1990: Florida State accepts invitation to join ACC.

September 26, 1990: South Carolina accepts its SEC invitation.

October 9, 1990: Big East announces it has invited Miami to join.

The CFA deferred the impact of the UGA/OU lawsuit against the NCAA TV monopoly and the Big 10/Pac 10 withdrawal followed by Notre Dame also hastened the end of the SWC.

(06-03-2013 10:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  He can play his first year at TAMU if he's good enough. Manziel is eligible for the NFL draft after the 2013 season.

And on this subject...