http://thegazette.com/2013/05/29/emails-...officials/

Quote:As part of its deregulating agenda, the NCAA announced 25 recruiting revisions in January. Three proposals, which eventually were tabled and suspended, would have granted programs unlimited contact — including through text messaging — with athletes before their junior seasons. Another would have allowed programs to hire non-coach personnel directors for recruiting and a third would have eliminated restrictions on sending printed recruiting materials to recruits.

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Quote:Emmert retorted that the proposals were vetted for months by the NCAA’s membership committee with opposition from only Rice University, “who I don’t believe is a mainstream D1 school,” Emmert wrote.

“If now the membership doesn’t want some of these changes, fine by me,” Emmert wrote. “But to be honest, I don’t know how the membership wants to make decisions. The process used to make these changes was as open, representative and democratic and I could imagine — other than the old town hall convention model I suppose.” Emmert also mentioned Big Ten staff worked on the group. Michigan State President Lou Anna Simon chairs the NCAA executive committee.

As a result, all three proposals were scuttled and not implemented. The P5 have all the power to make the rules as they see fit and to their own benefit, but they have consternation about implementing them. Why?

This is one of the main reasons I don't think a breakaway is imminent. The P5 can't even get it together enough to allow the rules which clearly benefit themselves the most.

And while this article is slanted towards B1G schools saying no, several SEC schools were also noted as wanting to stop this deregulation.

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Makes sense. Some of this is the big boys like Ohio State chomping at the bit to use deregulation to out-spend the lower-revenue programs in their own conference, whereas schools like Northwestern (i.e., everyone who doesn't have the ticket revenue of Ohio State and Michigan) hate the idea of letting the few teams that are obscenely wealthy buy NFL-sized staffs and scouting departments.

Next up might be eliminating the 85-scholarship limit in football and going back to the bad old days when the megaprograms added 50-100 freshmen players every year.

(05-29-2013 01:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Makes sense. Some of this is the big boys like Ohio State chomping at the bit to use deregulation to out-spend the lower-revenue programs in their own conference, whereas schools like Northwestern (i.e., everyone who doesn't have the ticket revenue of Ohio State and Michigan) hate the idea of letting the few teams that are obscenely wealthy buy NFL-sized staffs and scouting departments.

Ticket revenue is just one source of wealth. Northwestern, with its $7 billion endowment, is far wealthier than Ohio State, which has a $2.1 billion endowment.

So a fairer way to characterize Northwestern's position is that it is the filthy-rich mogul of the B1G that prefers that athletic department expenditures on recruiting be held to arbitrarily low limits so that it can compete with far poorer schools like Ohio State and Penn State from its petty-cash athletic revenue without having to dip into its endowment while simultaneously denying those poorer schools from leveraging the one small area - ticket revenue - that the latter have a financial advantage in. Very convenient for NWU but then again the rich always get their way ...

(05-29-2013 01:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Ticket revenue is just one source of wealth. Northwestern, with its $7 billion endowment, is far wealthier than Ohio State, which has a $2.1 billion endowment.

No serious person would compare those university numbers as if you were comparing the Chicago Bears' finances to the Cleveland Browns' finances, and no serious person believes that Northwestern's athletic department is "wealthier" than those at Penn State or Ohio State.

That would be a reasonable comparison only if Northwestern was solely a sports franchise rather than a major research university that happens to have a college football team on the side.

(05-29-2013 01:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Makes sense. Some of this is the big boys like Ohio State chomping at the bit to use deregulation to out-spend the lower-revenue programs in their own conference, whereas schools like Northwestern (i.e., everyone who doesn't have the ticket revenue of Ohio State and Michigan) hate the idea of letting the few teams that are obscenely wealthy buy NFL-sized staffs and scouting departments.

Next up might be eliminating the 85-scholarship limit in football and going back to the bad old days when the megaprograms added 50-100 freshmen players every year.

Sorry, but it's Urban Meyer's concern here that he didn't want to see that, not Northwestern's. OSU was certainly not chomping at the bit here. If anything, they were afraid of what other schools would do. That was Urb's writing, not Fitz's.

(05-29-2013 01:18 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Makes sense. Some of this is the big boys like Ohio State chomping at the bit to use deregulation to out-spend the lower-revenue programs in their own conference, whereas schools like Northwestern (i.e., everyone who doesn't have the ticket revenue of Ohio State and Michigan) hate the idea of letting the few teams that are obscenely wealthy buy NFL-sized staffs and scouting departments.

Next up might be eliminating the 85-scholarship limit in football and going back to the bad old days when the megaprograms added 50-100 freshmen players every year.

Sorry, but it's Urban Meyer's concern here that he didn't want to see that, not Northwestern's. OSU was certainly not chomping at the bit here. If anything, they were afraid of what other schools would do. That was Urb's writing, not Fitz's.

Who would Meyer think is going to outspend him? Almost no one in college football has as much money to spend as Ohio State.

(05-29-2013 01:18 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:01 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Makes sense. Some of this is the big boys like Ohio State chomping at the bit to use deregulation to out-spend the lower-revenue programs in their own conference, whereas schools like Northwestern (i.e., everyone who doesn't have the ticket revenue of Ohio State and Michigan) hate the idea of letting the few teams that are obscenely wealthy buy NFL-sized staffs and scouting departments.

Next up might be eliminating the 85-scholarship limit in football and going back to the bad old days when the megaprograms added 50-100 freshmen players every year.

Sorry, but it's Urban Meyer's concern here that he didn't want to see that, not Northwestern's. OSU was certainly not chomping at the bit here. If anything, they were afraid of what other schools would do. That was Urb's writing, not Fitz's.

That's the way I read it, too. I was confused by all the responses that seemed to think Meyer welcomed the changes.

"Angst and panic" from the Big Ten???

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-s...27357.html

(05-29-2013 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Who would Meyer think is going to outspend him? Almost no one in college football has as much money to spend as Ohio State.

$EC

(05-29-2013 01:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Ticket revenue is just one source of wealth. Northwestern, with its $7 billion endowment, is far wealthier than Ohio State, which has a $2.1 billion endowment.

No serious person would compare those university numbers as if you were comparing the Chicago Bears' finances to the Cleveland Browns' finances, and no serious person believes that Northwestern's athletic department is "wealthier" than those at Penn State or Ohio State.

NWU could have a far larger athletic department than Ohio State's or Penn State's, if it wanted to. But it chooses not to. Since there's a world of difference between not having something because you choose to not have it and because, well, you just plain can't have it, it is silly to weep for NWU as a poor underdog when in fact NWU has far greater resources,and doing so is just plain ... not serious.

(05-29-2013 02:56 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Ticket revenue is just one source of wealth. Northwestern, with its $7 billion endowment, is far wealthier than Ohio State, which has a $2.1 billion endowment.

No serious person would compare those university numbers as if you were comparing the Chicago Bears' finances to the Cleveland Browns' finances, and no serious person believes that Northwestern's athletic department is "wealthier" than those at Penn State or Ohio State.

NWU could have a far larger athletic department than Ohio State's or Penn State's, if it wanted to. But it chooses not to. Since there's a world of difference between not having something because you choose to not have it and because, well, you just plain don't have it, it is silly to weep for NWU as a poor underdog when in fact NWU has far greater resources,and doing so is just plain ... not serious.

This would forever change CFB though. None of the smaller less rich schools would ever crawl up off the mat. Typical case of the haves and have nots...

(05-29-2013 12:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  http://thegazette.com/2013/05/29/emails-...officials/

Quote:As part of its deregulating agenda, the NCAA announced 25 recruiting revisions in January. Three proposals, which eventually were tabled and suspended, would have granted programs unlimited contact — including through text messaging — with athletes before their junior seasons. Another would have allowed programs to hire non-coach personnel directors for recruiting and a third would have eliminated restrictions on sending printed recruiting materials to recruits.

Quote:In mid-February, Ohio State Coach Urban Meyer sent a text message to Northwestern counterpart Pat Fitzgerald, writing “that there are already teams that have made plans to have separate scouting depts. [sic]. there has already been nfl scouts that have been told they will be hired to run the dept. (hired for over 200k). I checked with an NFL friend and he confirmed that there was much conversation about this. Appealing to scouts because of no travel. Also, there has been movement to hire Frmr players/coaches with big names to work in that dept. and recruit full time. This will all happen immediately once rule is passed. Thought u should be aware if [sic] this nonsense to share with who u feel can assist.”

Quote:Emmert retorted that the proposals were vetted for months by the NCAA’s membership committee with opposition from only Rice University, “who I don’t believe is a mainstream D1 school,” Emmert wrote.
“If now the membership doesn’t want some of these changes, fine by me,” Emmert wrote. “But to be honest, I don’t know how the membership wants to make decisions. The process used to make these changes was as open, representative and democratic and I could imagine — other than the old town hall convention model I suppose.” Emmert also mentioned Big Ten staff worked on the group. Michigan State President Lou Anna Simon chairs the NCAA executive committee.

As a result, all three proposals were scuttled and not implemented. The P5 have all the power to make the rules as they see fit and to their own benefit, but they have consternation about implementing them. Why?

This is one of the main reasons I don't think a breakaway is imminent. The P5 can't even get it together enough to allow the rules which clearly benefit themselves the most.

And while this article is slanted towards B1G schools saying no, several SEC schools were also noted as wanting to stop this deregulation.

This makes it clear. Emmert doesn't view integrity as important. Rice was the only SWC school not to get on probation. Emmert has tried to sweep the UNC academic scandal under the rug. He somehow can't find any problems at Auburn despite all the players coming out in the media and saying what was going on. And he's more concerned about non-traditional ways of getting information than the most embarrassing set of violations in NCAA history at Miami.

Here's my problem with deregulation.

I don't care if Alabama hires 20 NFL scouts and a Madison Avenue marketing firm to handle recruiting.

The problem is that the debate is all about what the schools want, there is no discussion of what intensified recruiting with more contacts means for those kids in high school. For a top athlete, there is no time to enjoy the senior year because of the constant recruiting contacts, there is the stress of making a decision while being pressured from so many different directions.

How about some player friendly deregulation. Offer an early signing period in the summer after the junior season and once the letter is signed, the school is stuck with them.

(05-29-2013 04:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Here's my problem with deregulation.

I don't care if Alabama hires 20 NFL scouts and a Madison Avenue marketing firm to handle recruiting.

The problem is that the debate is all about what the schools want, there is no discussion of what intensified recruiting with more contacts means for those kids in high school. For a top athlete, there is no time to enjoy the senior year because of the constant recruiting contacts, there is the stress of making a decision while being pressured from so many different directions.

You're kidding, right? Your school must not sign many 4- and 5- star athletes, because the ones I see LOVE the attention they get. They are treated like real Stars, both locally and since the rise of recruiting websites, nationally, while still in HS, and enjoy it to the hilt like anyone else would.

There may be good reasons to limit recruiting, but the happiness of the kids involves sure ain't one of them.

I think if I'm a Rice fan I'm a little ticked that Mark Emmert does not think Rice is a "mainstream D1 school," whatever that means.

(05-29-2013 01:18 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 01:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Ticket revenue is just one source of wealth. Northwestern, with its $7 billion endowment, is far wealthier than Ohio State, which has a $2.1 billion endowment.

No serious person would compare those university numbers as if you were comparing the Chicago Bears' finances to the Cleveland Browns' finances, and no serious person believes that Northwestern's athletic department is "wealthier" than those at Penn State or Ohio State.

That would be a reasonable comparison only if Northwestern was solely a sports franchise rather than a major research university that happens to have a college football team on the side.

Likewise if Ohio State didn't get any public money. Private schools have large endowments for a reason. Public schools can get by with lower ones because they live off the tax payer.

I'm so sick of schools like this that thing they should have a monopoly on everything because of there large investments in their programs. I guess it is real easy to invest money you get from taxes.

Things would get real interesting if tax payers got to choose which university there tax money goes to. May Ohio and Cincinatti could then invest more in there programs.

Fans of college football should want tighter regulations, not looser - unlimited anything (scholarships, recruiting, even coaches salaries) favors the top 10 schools - to the detriment of all the rest. If you want the same 4 or 5 teams winning the national championship EVERY YEAR, go ahead and deregulate. If you like variety and a little parity, maybe 85 scholarships is too many? maybe we need a hard cap on coaches salaries? THINK ABOUT IT.

(05-29-2013 08:20 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Fans of college football should want tighter regulations, not looser - unlimited anything (scholarships, recruiting, even coaches salaries) favors the top 10 schools - to the detriment of all the rest. If you want the same 4 or 5 teams winning the national championship EVERY YEAR, go ahead and deregulate. If you like variety and a little parity, maybe 85 scholarships is too many? maybe we need a hard cap on coaches salaries? THINK ABOUT IT.

The same group of schools wins the national title anyway. Tell me the last time one of these elite teams didn't win it:

FSU
Miami
LSU
Auburn
Georgia
Alabama
Florida
Tennessee
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
USC
Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska

These 16 teams are essentially the entire collection of "blue bloods" (Notre Dame, Michigan) and "nouveaux riche" (Miami, FSU) of college football. And the last time anyone else shared a national title was Colorado and Georgia Tech in 1990, and before that BYU in 1984. Before that? Beats me. Well no, it doesn't. Clemson and Pitt, two quasi-elites, won titles in 1981 and 1976. There actually seemed to be more variety before scholarship limits were implemented.

These schools dominated the football scene when Bear Bryant could bring 250 players to Alabama, and they dominate today with the scholarship limits. You cannot keep them from dominating. The only major shakeup in college football over the past 1/2 century is the emergence in the 1980s of the three Florida schools as national powers. That's it.

(05-29-2013 05:02 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 04:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Here's my problem with deregulation.

I don't care if Alabama hires 20 NFL scouts and a Madison Avenue marketing firm to handle recruiting.

The problem is that the debate is all about what the schools want, there is no discussion of what intensified recruiting with more contacts means for those kids in high school. For a top athlete, there is no time to enjoy the senior year because of the constant recruiting contacts, there is the stress of making a decision while being pressured from so many different directions.

You're kidding, right? Your school must not sign many 4- and 5- star athletes, because the ones I see LOVE the attention they get. They are treated like real Stars, both locally and since the rise of recruiting websites, nationally, while still in HS, and enjoy it to the hilt like anyone else would.

There may be good reasons to limit recruiting, but the happiness of the kids involves sure ain't one of them.

Read "Year of the Dog" and tell me how great it is.
http://www.amazon.com/Year-Dog-One-Team-...springdale

(05-30-2013 09:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-29-2013 08:20 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Fans of college football should want tighter regulations, not looser - unlimited anything (scholarships, recruiting, even coaches salaries) favors the top 10 schools - to the detriment of all the rest. If you want the same 4 or 5 teams winning the national championship EVERY YEAR, go ahead and deregulate. If you like variety and a little parity, maybe 85 scholarships is too many? maybe we need a hard cap on coaches salaries? THINK ABOUT IT.

The same group of schools wins the national title anyway. Tell me the last time one of these elite teams didn't win it:

FSU
Miami
LSU
Auburn
Georgia
Alabama
Florida
Tennessee
Notre Dame
Texas
Oklahoma
USC
Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Nebraska

These 16 teams are essentially the entire collection of "blue bloods" (Notre Dame, Michigan) and "nouveaux riche" (Miami, FSU) of college football. And the last time anyone else shared a national title was Colorado and Georgia Tech in 1990, and before that BYU in 1984. Before that? Beats me. Well no, it doesn't. Clemson and Pitt, two quasi-elites, won titles in 1981 and 1976. There actually seemed to be more variety before scholarship limits were implemented.

These schools dominated the football scene when Bear Bryant could bring 250 players to Alabama, and they dominate today with the scholarship limits. You cannot keep them from dominating. The only major shakeup in college football over the past 1/2 century is the emergence in the 1980s of the three Florida schools as national powers. That's it.

This is true. And beyond the years you mentioned, you have to go back to 1960 when Minnesota won the AP MNC and 1959 when Syracuse did, two fallen powers. Before that it was Maryland in 1953. But 10-0 Maryland lost to OU in a bowl and Notre Dame was 8-0-1 sitting at #2. Michigan St. won in 1952. Before that it was 1945.