(04-04-2013 07:15 PM)CPslograd Wrote:  You have to have 6 full members that play 3 mens team sports if they don't have football. But I'm not sure how the rule works when you are a AAA conference that has some schools that play football in other leagues. For instance I don't know if you have 3 schools that play FCS football and 3 schools that have 3 mens team sports, does that qualify for the rule? I'm not sure, I think so, but don't know.

There are two distinct types of performance requirements: what the conference must do and what the schools in the conference must do. I'll bold the first and italicize the second:

Quote:20.02.5.2
Sports Sponsorship.
A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
{a} The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
{b} The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
{c} The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).

The conference has to sponsor a certain number of sports. The conference has to include seven members sponsoring men and women's basketball, and six members sponsoring five other men's sports and six members sponsoring five other women's sports.

(1) A full member of the conference playing in a sport sponsored by the conference can contribute to both the bold and the italics parts. Seven BBall schools and six schools all playing the five additional M&W sports sponsored by the conference including two additional M&W team sports is sufficient, but not necessary.

(2) Affiliate members OF the conference count toward the sports that the conference can sponsor, so they help with the stuff in bold.

(3) Members who are affiliates OF other conferences (multi-sport or single-sport) count toward the sports sponsored by members, so they help with the stuff in italics.

Don't confuse these with Automatic Qualifier rules, where there is a need for a certain number of schools to have played together in conference competition in that sport for two years, except for the two year's grace period if exits from a conference made you fall short of that.

All of this is a big simplification from the rules that used to be in place before they were amended 1Jan2011.

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:36 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What does UIC bring to the MVC other that they are in Chicago? The MVC isnt known for large city urban universities. UIC doesnt fit.

That's exactly why they need a school like MVC. Their largest TV market is Wichita at #69. Even if it's not for TV value, that situation is unsustainable for recruiting purposes.

Yes but Chicago doesn't support college sports teams. At all. I spent the better part of the past ten years on the northside of Chicago and people flat out dont support the local schools. It's a real hard sell and it can be a real pain to get from one side of town to the other. It doesn't matter how big the market is if you dont have a shot at any of it.

UMKC, Denver, Detroit-Mercy, and UW-Miwaukee are in markets much larger than Omaha (Creighton) and it is much more likely that fan support and interest will be potentially much stronger there than any university in Chicagoland.

It will be nice for the MVC schools to sell Chicago recruits on a visit back home annually. UIC would be the one I'd take from Chicago if I had to choose one. Even so, I think Chicago is the wrong place to look for a new MVC member. Just my thought.

(04-04-2013 11:40 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:36 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What does UIC bring to the MVC other that they are in Chicago? The MVC isnt known for large city urban universities. UIC doesnt fit.

That's exactly why they need a school like MVC. Their largest TV market is Wichita at #69. Even if it's not for TV value, that situation is unsustainable for recruiting purposes.

Yes but Chicago doesn't support college sports teams. At all. I spent the better part of the past ten years on the northside of Chicago and people flat out dont support the local schools. It's a real hard sell and it can be a real pain to get from one side of town to the other. It doesn't matter how big the market is if you dont have a shot at any of it.

UMKC, Denver, Detroit-Mercy, and UW-Miwaukee are in markets much larger than Omaha (Creighton) and it is much more likely that fan support and interest will be potentially much stronger there than any university in Chicagoland.

It will be nice for the MVC schools to sell Chicago recruits on a visit back home annually. UIC would be the one I'd take from Chicago if I had to choose one. Even so, I think Chicago is the wrong place to look for a new MVC member. Just my thought.

The thing is that none of those schools have good fan support at all, either. They are all similarly situated urban schools that have power conference neighbors that overshadow them, so you might as well pick the one with the largest market and best recruiting area (not to mention being the home to the most MVC alums overall). Probably the best possible candidate out there attendance-wise is Murray State, but the problem is that they have no market to speak of. At the end of the day, it's not really about thinking that UIC (or Loyola) can deliver Chicago. As a lifelong Chicagoan, I know that they can't. It's really about long-term recruiting access and using Chicago as a platform to provide synergy with the other MVC schools that have a lot of alums in the area.

(04-04-2013 01:38 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Does Wichita have to beg to get out of this conference now? Trust me. We're open to just about anything.

Restart your football program.

(04-05-2013 09:59 AM)PlainTiger Wrote:  Restart your football program.

Bad idea, Wichita. Don't revive football.

(04-04-2013 01:38 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Does Wichita have to beg to get out of this conference now? Trust me. We're open to just about anything.

convince Denver to join the Big West and we'll see about squeezing you in as well.

(04-04-2013 01:34 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Kill me now

How about after the National Title game 4/8?

Just kidding.

(04-04-2013 11:40 PM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 04:43 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-04-2013 01:36 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What does UIC bring to the MVC other that they are in Chicago? The MVC isnt known for large city urban universities. UIC doesnt fit.

That's exactly why they need a school like MVC. Their largest TV market is Wichita at #69. Even if it's not for TV value, that situation is unsustainable for recruiting purposes.

Yes but Chicago doesn't support college sports teams. At all. I spent the better part of the past ten years on the northside of Chicago and people flat out dont support the local schools. It's a real hard sell and it can be a real pain to get from one side of town to the other. It doesn't matter how big the market is if you dont have a shot at any of it.

UMKC, Denver, Detroit-Mercy, and UW-Miwaukee are in markets much larger than Omaha (Creighton) and it is much more likely that fan support and interest will be potentially much stronger there than any university in Chicagoland.

It will be nice for the MVC schools to sell Chicago recruits on a visit back home annually. UIC would be the one I'd take from Chicago if I had to choose one. Even so, I think Chicago is the wrong place to look for a new MVC member. Just my thought.

Northwestern's football attendance has grown, up into the high 30K's and considering how bad the hoops has been, the Wildcats drawing over 5K and getting into the top 100 attendance is quite good.

DePaul has won maybe 5 total conference home games since joining the BE; the fact that 8K bother to show up to Allstate to watch them is a testament to the devotion of what fanbase they have.
Loyola not been to the Big Dance in decades. UIC not in 15 years, Chicago State & NIU have habitually lost 20 games per year.

When a local team makes the Big Dance they will start drawing, none have done that in 15 years; that's why attendance and interest aren't there.

Given that the MVC already has 3 teams in Illinois, they would be better off going after Oakland. Big public U with no football, their attendance is growing and they've made the Big Dance 3 times in the last 10 years (05,10 & 11) making it to the round of 32 in 05.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Gol...basketball

Would also put the MVC on the map in a large market with lots of hoops talent(Detroit). That alone will improve the quality of talent in the league

The Valley could go after Oakland and Milwaukee if they want to concentrate on markets:

West - Wichita State, Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Drake, Milwaukee, UIC
East - Illinois State, Bradley, Southern Illinois, Indiana State, Evansville, Oakland

(04-05-2013 05:56 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Valley could go after Oakland and Milwaukee if they want to concentrate on markets:

West - Wichita State, Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Drake, Milwaukee, UIC
East - Illinois State, Bradley, Southern Illinois, Indiana State, Evansville, Oakland

Trade SIU to the OVC for SIUE. Trade Evansville to the Horizon for UIC and UWM.

Why would we give up Southern for Edwardsville? I'm fine with the other trade. SIU will rebound and improve. SIU-E, not so much.

The MVC is a tougher league for UIC..don't see why there'd be an expectation of an improvement in W-L and thus fan support. I get it with the big market approach but agree with other posters that UIC doesn't deliver much of any of it, at least in Chicago. NW was given as an example of a Chicago area team drawing better, but they are in the B10 so that's not a fair comparison. When they get 40K for the Michigan game, it's 20K Michigan fans.

(04-08-2013 07:46 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Why would we give up Southern for Edwardsville? I'm fine with the other trade. SIU will rebound and improve. SIU-E, not so much.

SIUE is in the StL market.

(04-08-2013 09:10 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 07:46 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Why would we give up Southern for Edwardsville? I'm fine with the other trade. SIU will rebound and improve. SIU-E, not so much.

SIUE is in the StL market.

Does STL know that? I'd bet SIU gets more play in STL than SIU-E

(04-08-2013 01:06 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 09:10 AM)NoDak Wrote:  

(04-08-2013 07:46 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Why would we give up Southern for Edwardsville? I'm fine with the other trade. SIU will rebound and improve. SIU-E, not so much.

SIUE is in the StL market.

Does STL know that? I'd bet SIU gets more play in STL than SIU-E

Similar benefits to adding UIC: other MVC grads in St Louis metro have an easier drive than the 2 hours to Carbondale and St Louis actually has a recruiting and TV market base. Admittedly, being on the Missouri side with UMSL would have a bigger impact. SIU is about the smallest market in the MVC.

I understand Carbondale is tiny. I'm just saying they get more press in STL than SIU-E ever will. Even if they are two hours away. UIC at least puts you IN Chicago. It's still irrelevent and would be a dumb move for the MVC. But not near as dumb as adding a team that's been D1 for a handful of years and is irrelevent in a market. And the MVC as a whole is fine with where they currently stand in STL. If the MVC wants to grab markets, they need to step outside of the footprint to do it. But they also need to focus on the basketball side of the equation as that's by far the most important aspect. Especially if WSU gets lucky and has an offer from a better conference at some point. Markets won't mean jack if the products absolutely suck.

And I'm not saying that none of the other teams can improve and become factors. But I don't have a lot of confidence in prolonged future success on the court from anyone outside of Bradley.

(04-08-2013 01:19 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  I understand Carbondale is tiny. I'm just saying they get more press in STL than SIU-E ever will. Even if they are two hours away. UIC at least puts you IN Chicago. It's still irrelevent and would be a dumb move for the MVC. But not near as dumb as adding a team that's been D1 for a handful of years and is irrelevent in a market. And the MVC as a whole is fine with where they currently stand in STL. If the MVC wants to grab markets, they need to step outside of the footprint to do it. But they also need to focus on the basketball side of the equation as that's by far the most important aspect. Especially if WSU gets lucky and has an offer from a better conference at some point. Markets won't mean jack if the products absolutely suck.

And I'm not saying that none of the other teams can improve and become factors. But I don't have a lot of confidence in prolonged future success on the court from anyone outside of Bradley.

The problem with the Valley now is that there are no slam dunk choices, otherwise that school would already be added. UMKC is almost as ridiculous as SIUE, but it had a site visit because of its media potential. Moreover, SIU would never allow SIUE.

Some of the other choices I see MVC fans throw out there are fatally flawed to begin with:
St Louis wouldn't return an MVC phone call
Dayton won't happen when a Big East move could
Detroit won't happen as it would prefer the A10 (MVC schools think its too far)
Oakland won't happen because it's too far
ORU won't happen, same issues as a school like Liberty
Arlington wouldn't accept, as it means abandoning the potential of football
UALR wouldn't accept, as the MVC is too Midwestern
NMSU won't happen, as seen as a flight risk and too much travel
Belmont won't happen, as Horizon or even Sun Belt BBonly are better fits
Omaha won't happen, as it is too new to DI
Dakota's won't happen, as their markets are too small
Murray St won't happen, " " "
N Kentucky and Wright St wouldn't happen because they are too far.

Ideally, the MVC needs schools in (a) Chicago, (b) Minneapolis-St Paul, (c ) St Louis, and (d ) KC.

(b) doesn't have any, and © doesn't have any willing that wouldn't be blocked. The four schools under consideration are either from choices (a) or (d), and all are unappetizing to WSU.

From the WAC board, looks like the MVC is also going on site visits to Denver, Belmont, and ORU.

http://www.wjbc.com/common/page.php?feed...&is_corp=0

Quote:Elgin spoke about the search with Jim Rome of CBS Sports last weekend. MVC officials spent last week visiting several campuses, including the University of Illinois-Chicago, Loyola (Ill.), University of Missouri-Kansas City, and Valparaiso. Local media outlets near Belmont University in Nashville, Tenn., Oral Roberts in Tulsa, Okla., and Denver University in Colorado have also said visits are planned.

If it's Denver (can't imagine the Indiana/Illinois schools being too happy), the Summit could be in critical condition if the Horizon replaces Butler at the Summit's expense.

If it's ORU, the Southland might look at UTPA, but would probably settle on a Division II school looking to go FCS. If it's UTPA, the WAC may go after Omaha or Western Illinois-both from the Summit-depending on its needs to keep its automatic bid alive, if any.

If it's Belmont, I'm not really sure what the OVC does. They could pull Lipscomb, ETSU, or NKU from the Atlantic Sun; Western Illinois or IUPUI from the Summit; or North Alabama from Division II. Wright State could be in play if the Horizon has more defections, but would be a long shot.

I hope it's Denver.