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UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 03:23 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 01:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Earlier tweet by same source:

PantherU.com‏@PantherU2h
For those wondering: UIC/Loy/VU talk to MVC, WSU 2 OVC, YSU 2 CAA, DET/CSU 2 A10. Everyone is looking for an out but MKE and GB.

Wright State talking to OVC - has to be a safety choice.
Youngstown St to CAA - presumably only for football.
Detroit / Cleveland St talking to A10.

Horizon has no interest in IPFW or IUPUI.
Horizon has interest in UMKC and Denver.

This news goes against your theory that the Horizon League is going to win a tug of war against the Summit conference with so many schools looking for the exit.

I don't buy that we'll see to many changes though.

If Oakland and Denver are gone, the Summit is effectively dead. The Summit can not interest a Horizon team, as the Horrizon has Butler's NCAA units.
04-04-2013 03:43 PM
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CPslograd Offline
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Post: #22
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 03:23 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 01:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Earlier tweet by same source:

PantherU.com‏@PantherU2h
For those wondering: UIC/Loy/VU talk to MVC, WSU 2 OVC, YSU 2 CAA, DET/CSU 2 A10. Everyone is looking for an out but MKE and GB.

Wright State talking to OVC - has to be a safety choice.
Youngstown St to CAA - presumably only for football.
Detroit / Cleveland St talking to A10.

Horizon has no interest in IPFW or IUPUI.
Horizon has interest in UMKC and Denver.

This news goes against your theory that the Horizon League is going to win a tug of war against the Summit conference with so many schools looking for the exit.

I don't buy that we'll see to many changes though.

How so?
And the basketball changes are going to be absolutely massive. How can they not be?
04-04-2013 03:46 PM
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CPslograd Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 03:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 03:23 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 01:44 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Earlier tweet by same source:

PantherU.com‏@PantherU2h
For those wondering: UIC/Loy/VU talk to MVC, WSU 2 OVC, YSU 2 CAA, DET/CSU 2 A10. Everyone is looking for an out but MKE and GB.

Wright State talking to OVC - has to be a safety choice.
Youngstown St to CAA - presumably only for football.
Detroit / Cleveland St talking to A10.

Horizon has no interest in IPFW or IUPUI.
Horizon has interest in UMKC and Denver.

This news goes against your theory that the Horizon League is going to win a tug of war against the Summit conference with so many schools looking for the exit.

I don't buy that we'll see to many changes though.

If Oakland and Denver are gone, the Summit is effectively dead. The Summit can not interest a Horizon team, as the Horrizon has Butler's NCAA units.

Only mostly dead. Conferences with autobids are awfully tough to kill. If the Summit has 4 or more it will find a way to survive just like the WAC did. If it gets down to two or three, it's awfully iffy.
04-04-2013 03:48 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 01:38 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 01:36 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What does UIC bring to the MVC other that they are in Chicago? The MVC isnt known for large city urban universities. UIC doesnt fit.

Chicago is all they bring. And less travel for the poorer schools of the conference. And a 4th school in IL. They also bring crap athletics and no fan support.

Does Wichita have to beg to get out of this conference now? Trust me. We're open to just about anything.

They bring 17 of the 18 MVC Sports, great academics, a new baseball stadium, pretty decent basketball arena. It was the best choice east of the Mississippi and we all knew that is where it was headed.
04-04-2013 03:54 PM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
I don't care how many sports they play. Only one really matters and they're only better than UMKC from the schools that had been mentioned. No fan support either. I guess that does mean they fit in with half the league already.
04-04-2013 04:11 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #26
UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
The Summit's problem is that it doesn't have enough members who play baseball to sponsor the three men's team sports under the current rules (which ironically were proposed by the WAC):

IPFW
IUPUI - no baseball
Western Illinois
Omaha
Denver - no baseball
South Dakota - no baseball or soccer
South Dakota State - no soccer
North Dakota State - no soccer

So the Summit has four members who play men's soccer and one is transitioning from Division II. There are only five members who play baseball, and again Omaha is transitioning. The Summit really needs to land SIUE from the OVC and NJIT from independence as they play both sports. NYIT, which is Division I in baseball only, can be brought on as an eighth member in baseball.

The alternative would be to add sports from within, especially at South Dakota and IUPUI for baseball, and all three Dakota schools for men's soccer.

Otherwise, the Summit will be dead when the grace period and the automatic bid expires.
04-04-2013 04:34 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 01:36 PM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  What does UIC bring to the MVC other that they are in Chicago? The MVC isnt known for large city urban universities. UIC doesnt fit.

That's exactly why they need a school like MVC. Their largest TV market is Wichita at #69. Even if it's not for TV value, that situation is unsustainable for recruiting purposes.
04-04-2013 04:43 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
Denver to the Horizon makes about as much sense as Denver to the Big West. I think their odds of joining the BW are going up.
04-04-2013 04:48 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 04:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Summit's problem is that it doesn't have enough members who play baseball to sponsor the three men's team sports under the current rules (which ironically were proposed by the WAC):

IPFW
IUPUI - no baseball
Western Illinois
Omaha
Denver - no baseball
South Dakota - no baseball or soccer
South Dakota State - no soccer
North Dakota State - no soccer

So the Summit has four members who play men's soccer and one is transitioning from Division II. There are only five members who play baseball, and again Omaha is transitioning. The Summit really needs to land SIUE from the OVC and NJIT from independence as they play both sports. NYIT, which is Division I in baseball only, can be brought on as an eighth member in baseball.

The alternative would be to add sports from within, especially at South Dakota and IUPUI for baseball, and all three Dakota schools for men's soccer.

Otherwise, the Summit will be dead when the grace period and the automatic bid expires.

As long as you have four full members who play a non-basketball sport you can continue to use affiliates. I don't think men's soccer or baseball are issues, yet.
04-04-2013 04:51 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 04:51 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 04:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Summit's problem is that it doesn't have enough members who play baseball to sponsor the three men's team sports under the current rules (which ironically were proposed by the WAC):

IPFW
IUPUI - no baseball
Western Illinois
Omaha
Denver - no baseball
South Dakota - no baseball or soccer
South Dakota State - no soccer
North Dakota State - no soccer

So the Summit has four members who play men's soccer and one is transitioning from Division II. There are only five members who play baseball, and again Omaha is transitioning. The Summit really needs to land SIUE from the OVC and NJIT from independence as they play both sports. NYIT, which is Division I in baseball only, can be brought on as an eighth member in baseball.

The alternative would be to add sports from within, especially at South Dakota and IUPUI for baseball, and all three Dakota schools for men's soccer.

Otherwise, the Summit will be dead when the grace period and the automatic bid expires.

As long as you have four full members who play a non-basketball sport you can continue to use affiliates. I don't think men's soccer or baseball are issues, yet.
Who can the Summit grab as affiliates? NJIT will likely land a conference spot before this round is over. NYIT doesn't count by the NCAA's bylaws for the fifth or sixth spot and an autobid spot, as it is not a full DI school.

The WAC took both UNC and UND baseball to limit the Summit's options. Maybe UND would move over if NDSU agreed to restart the ND football series, but that still likely leaves the Summmit one baseball team short.
04-04-2013 04:59 PM
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FargoBison Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
Well Oakland's AD reports that they have had no contact with the Horizon and SIU's Chancellor reports that no invites to the MVC have been made. Of course who really knows if that means anything.

Quote:.@Huth_AD: "We have not been contacted by the #HorizonLeague."

https://twitter.com/PaulKampe/status/319905276901855232

Quote:SIU Chancellor Rita Cheng, the ranking voting member for SIU for adding new schools, said no decision has been made to add new school.

https://twitter.com/THefferman_SI/status...8683537410
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 05:00 PM by FargoBison.)
04-04-2013 04:59 PM
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Poliicious Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
Can't imagine that Detroit is happy about Oakland joining the Horizon unless they plan on going elsewhere. Also don't get adding a 4th Illlinois team in the MVC. UIC is getting a new baseball stadium thanks to Curtis Granderson, but they don't bring enough to the table to warrant a moveup to the MVC. If the MVC wanted to make a statement they should add Oakland instead of UIC. Oakland outdraws UIC and has won the Summit several times in the last few years. They would also bring the MVC into a region they haven't recruited (Detroit) with a ton of talent and a hoops fanbase (look at the numbers that Michigan and MSU draw)

Question about the Shockers, given that they may want a change of location; which conference would you want them to join?
04-04-2013 05:00 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 04:59 PM)FargoBison Wrote:  Well Oakland's AD reports that they have had no contact with the Horizon and SIU's Chancellor reports that no invites to the MVC have been made. Of course who really knows if that means anything.

Quote:.@Huth_AD: "We have not been contacted by the #HorizonLeague."

https://twitter.com/PaulKampe/status/319905276901855232

Quote:SIU Chancellor Rita Cheng, the ranking voting member for SIU for adding new schools, said no decision has been made to add new school.

https://twitter.com/THefferman_SI/status...8683537410

Horizon League Presidents have almost certainly been in contact with Oakland's leadership, so the denial that Oakland has not been in contact with the actual Horizon League is certainly plausible. MVC Presidents almost certainly have strong ideas about which way they plan to vote.
04-04-2013 05:02 PM
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FargoBison Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 05:00 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  Can't imagine that Detroit is happy about Oakland joining the Horizon unless they plan on going elsewhere. Also don't get adding a 4th Illlinois team in the MVC. UIC is getting a new baseball stadium thanks to Curtis Granderson, but they don't bring enough to the table to warrant a moveup to the MVC. If the MVC wanted to make a statement they should add Oakland instead of UIC. Oakland outdraws UIC and has won the Summit several times in the last few years. They would also bring the MVC into a region they haven't recruited (Detroit) with a ton of talent and a hoops fanbase (look at the numbers that Michigan and MSU draw)

Question about the Shockers, given that they may want a change of location; which conference would you want them to join?

It appears the MVC strongly values getting into the Chicago market...makes me think they might take multiple schools. Not sure why they would go forward with four campus visits if they only wanted one school.
04-04-2013 05:04 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 05:00 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  Can't imagine that Detroit is happy about Oakland joining the Horizon unless they plan on going elsewhere. Also don't get adding a 4th Illlinois team in the MVC. UIC is getting a new baseball stadium thanks to Curtis Granderson, but they don't bring enough to the table to warrant a moveup to the MVC. If the MVC wanted to make a statement they should add Oakland instead of UIC. Oakland outdraws UIC and has won the Summit several times in the last few years. They would also bring the MVC into a region they haven't recruited (Detroit) with a ton of talent and a hoops fanbase (look at the numbers that Michigan and MSU draw)

Question about the Shockers, given that they may want a change of location; which conference would you want them to join?
Oakland would be a reasonable addition to a number of conferences: A10, Horizon, MVC.

The MVC schools seemed focused on travel costs. UIC seems the best of both worlds as it gives the MVC a large public in the largest nearby media market, gives access to a huge number of MVC alumni in Chicago an opportunity for a "home" game, and limits travel expenses for olympic sports.

Detroit and Cleveland St to the A10 have been rumored in today's tweets.
04-04-2013 05:06 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 05:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 05:00 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  Can't imagine that Detroit is happy about Oakland joining the Horizon unless they plan on going elsewhere. Also don't get adding a 4th Illlinois team in the MVC. UIC is getting a new baseball stadium thanks to Curtis Granderson, but they don't bring enough to the table to warrant a moveup to the MVC. If the MVC wanted to make a statement they should add Oakland instead of UIC. Oakland outdraws UIC and has won the Summit several times in the last few years. They would also bring the MVC into a region they haven't recruited (Detroit) with a ton of talent and a hoops fanbase (look at the numbers that Michigan and MSU draw)

Question about the Shockers, given that they may want a change of location; which conference would you want them to join?
Oakland would be a reasonable addition to a number of conferences: A10, Horizon, MVC.

The MVC schools seemed focused on travel costs. UIC seems the best of both worlds as it gives the MVC a large public in the largest nearby media market, gives access to a huge number of MVC alumni in Chicago an opportunity for a "home" game, and limits travel expenses for olympic sports.

Detroit and Cleveland St to the A10 have been rumored in today's tweets.

UIC does not play football either, something that may be important to the remaining Valley members.
04-04-2013 05:29 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 05:29 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 05:06 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 05:00 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  Can't imagine that Detroit is happy about Oakland joining the Horizon unless they plan on going elsewhere. Also don't get adding a 4th Illlinois team in the MVC. UIC is getting a new baseball stadium thanks to Curtis Granderson, but they don't bring enough to the table to warrant a moveup to the MVC. If the MVC wanted to make a statement they should add Oakland instead of UIC. Oakland outdraws UIC and has won the Summit several times in the last few years. They would also bring the MVC into a region they haven't recruited (Detroit) with a ton of talent and a hoops fanbase (look at the numbers that Michigan and MSU draw)

Question about the Shockers, given that they may want a change of location; which conference would you want them to join?
Oakland would be a reasonable addition to a number of conferences: A10, Horizon, MVC.

The MVC schools seemed focused on travel costs. UIC seems the best of both worlds as it gives the MVC a large public in the largest nearby media market, gives access to a huge number of MVC alumni in Chicago an opportunity for a "home" game, and limits travel expenses for olympic sports.

Detroit and Cleveland St to the A10 have been rumored in today's tweets.

UIC does not play football either, something that may be important to the remaining Valley members.

None of the MVC finalists (the ones with site visits) had football, but all of them were near major media markets.

Really doubt the MVC wants six football playing members, as that could force the dissolution of the MVFC and begin the MVC with football. SIU, ISU want to play WIU as a conference mate, and UNI seems to like the Dakota schools as conference mates. The non-football schools don't like any further emphasis on football by the MVC.
04-04-2013 05:39 PM
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CPslograd Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
(04-04-2013 04:51 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 04:34 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  The Summit's problem is that it doesn't have enough members who play baseball to sponsor the three men's team sports under the current rules (which ironically were proposed by the WAC):

IPFW
IUPUI - no baseball
Western Illinois
Omaha
Denver - no baseball
South Dakota - no baseball or soccer
South Dakota State - no soccer
North Dakota State - no soccer

So the Summit has four members who play men's soccer and one is transitioning from Division II. There are only five members who play baseball, and again Omaha is transitioning. The Summit really needs to land SIUE from the OVC and NJIT from independence as they play both sports. NYIT, which is Division I in baseball only, can be brought on as an eighth member in baseball.

The alternative would be to add sports from within, especially at South Dakota and IUPUI for baseball, and all three Dakota schools for men's soccer.

Otherwise, the Summit will be dead when the grace period and the automatic bid expires.

As long as you have four full members who play a non-basketball sport you can continue to use affiliates. I don't think men's soccer or baseball are issues, yet.

You have to have 6 full members that play 3 mens team sports if they don't have football. But I'm not sure how the rule works when you are a AAA conference that has some schools that play football in other leagues. For instance I don't know if you have 3 schools that play FCS football and 3 schools that have 3 mens team sports, does that qualify for the rule? I'm not sure, I think so, but don't know.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 07:20 PM by CPslograd.)
04-04-2013 07:15 PM
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Jet915 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
Not in the Valley anymore but UIC seems like a suspect move. Yes, they are in Chicago, but they don't get much fan support and don't have much success for basketball which is the MAJOR sport in the MVC.
04-04-2013 07:59 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #40
UIC to MVC, Oakland to Horizon
CPSLOgrad, you are right in that a conference has to have six members playing three team sports for each gender, unless if the conference sponsors football. The second team sport for each gender may use up to two affiliates towards the six school requirement.

The Horizon will still need one more school who plays baseball, as they only had five this season. The HL has until July 1, 2014 to come into compliance. This would seem to favor IPFW, as IUPUI does not play baseball. WIU or Chicago State would be poorer institutional fits, but would work here too. Assuming there are no further losses, the HL will have 8 for men's soccer, possibly 9 if there is an addition.
04-04-2013 08:42 PM
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