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If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
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Blackhawk-eye Offline
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Post: #41
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
If the B1G could pick up UVA, Mizzou, Kansas and Texas in the process that would be great.

I wouldn't care about what else happens with the rest of college sports.
04-02-2013 11:58 AM
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JunkYardCard Offline
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Post: #42
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-02-2013 09:07 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think it will be necessary for a 16 team league where most teams won't win conference titles that often but winning your division essentially gets you into the playoffs

Totally agree. Excluding semi-final games would be complete chaos for determining the champion for a conference with four pods of four.
04-02-2013 03:10 PM
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Melky Cabrera Offline
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Post: #43
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-01-2013 11:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 10:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I'm not aware that NCAA rules allow for semi-final conference games. AFAIK the rule only speaks to a conference championship game after a conference reaches 12 members or more.

There are none....yet Conference Commissioner Bowlsby certainly thinks about such so much that he thought it was important to go public about how the NCAA should stay out of the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments for football. He literally said those words. IF this concept was not regular talk within certain circles, he wouldn't have bothered to make the Big 12's stance on it public.

It is all just theory at this time that we will see conference tournaments for football in the future, but it is a pretty strong theory based upon the money interest involved in such ventures.

It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.
04-02-2013 07:36 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #44
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-02-2013 07:36 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 11:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 10:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I'm not aware that NCAA rules allow for semi-final conference games. AFAIK the rule only speaks to a conference championship game after a conference reaches 12 members or more.

There are none....yet Conference Commissioner Bowlsby certainly thinks about such so much that he thought it was important to go public about how the NCAA should stay out of the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments for football. He literally said those words. IF this concept was not regular talk within certain circles, he wouldn't have bothered to make the Big 12's stance on it public.

It is all just theory at this time that we will see conference tournaments for football in the future, but it is a pretty strong theory based upon the money interest involved in such ventures.

It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.

When Bowlsby talked publicly about Conference Football Tournaments, he let the cat out of the bag. Obviously that is a subject that is heavily talked about in the upper echelon, the Administration level. I don't know why anyone would question the validity of that. The money for those games would be astounding.

The NCAA sets regulations for across the board competition. That way every conference operates under the same standards. You want a conference championship? You have to go through the same process as every other conference to get it. I like the fact that the NCAA sets such guidelines. The NCAA is not some high in the sky pontificators. The NCAA is made up of University Presidents. It is now a Democratic Republic so to speak, just as our country is.

The NCAA will set similar rules in the future for conference football tournaments as they do now for conference championships.

In terms of the money, the Semifinal games will actually end up making the Conference Championship games worth even more individually than they are worth currently. The future of these tournaments is very real, Bowlsby seems to be the guy that continuously is the mouthpiece of what is coming down the line. Whether he is doing that in spitefulness of what he is hearing, or whether he is doing it at the behest of someone like DeLoss Dodds who is super traditional and hates all the change that is coming or perhaps he is just playing the game his way to try and get his conference a leg up when the Big 2 are showing more and more that they are pulling away.
04-03-2013 09:35 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #45
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-03-2013 09:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 07:36 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 11:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 10:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I'm not aware that NCAA rules allow for semi-final conference games. AFAIK the rule only speaks to a conference championship game after a conference reaches 12 members or more.

There are none....yet Conference Commissioner Bowlsby certainly thinks about such so much that he thought it was important to go public about how the NCAA should stay out of the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments for football. He literally said those words. IF this concept was not regular talk within certain circles, he wouldn't have bothered to make the Big 12's stance on it public.

It is all just theory at this time that we will see conference tournaments for football in the future, but it is a pretty strong theory based upon the money interest involved in such ventures.

It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.

When Bowlsby talked publicly about Conference Football Tournaments, he let the cat out of the bag. Obviously that is a subject that is heavily talked about in the upper echelon, the Administration level. I don't know why anyone would question the validity of that. The money for those games would be astounding.

The NCAA sets regulations for across the board competition. That way every conference operates under the same standards. You want a conference championship? You have to go through the same process as every other conference to get it. I like the fact that the NCAA sets such guidelines. The NCAA is not some high in the sky pontificators. The NCAA is made up of University Presidents. It is now a Democratic Republic so to speak, just as our country is.

The NCAA will set similar rules in the future for conference football tournaments as they do now for conference championships.

In terms of the money, the Semifinal games will actually end up making the Conference Championship games worth even more individually than they are worth currently. The future of these tournaments is very real, Bowlsby seems to be the guy that continuously is the mouthpiece of what is coming down the line. Whether he is doing that in spitefulness of what he is hearing, or whether he is doing it at the behest of someone like DeLoss Dodds who is super traditional and hates all the change that is coming or perhaps he is just playing the game his way to try and get his conference a leg up when the Big 2 are showing more and more that they are pulling away.

He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.
04-03-2013 10:39 PM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #46
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-03-2013 10:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 09:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 07:36 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 11:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 10:09 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  I'm not aware that NCAA rules allow for semi-final conference games. AFAIK the rule only speaks to a conference championship game after a conference reaches 12 members or more.

There are none....yet Conference Commissioner Bowlsby certainly thinks about such so much that he thought it was important to go public about how the NCAA should stay out of the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments for football. He literally said those words. IF this concept was not regular talk within certain circles, he wouldn't have bothered to make the Big 12's stance on it public.

It is all just theory at this time that we will see conference tournaments for football in the future, but it is a pretty strong theory based upon the money interest involved in such ventures.

It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.

When Bowlsby talked publicly about Conference Football Tournaments, he let the cat out of the bag. Obviously that is a subject that is heavily talked about in the upper echelon, the Administration level. I don't know why anyone would question the validity of that. The money for those games would be astounding.

The NCAA sets regulations for across the board competition. That way every conference operates under the same standards. You want a conference championship? You have to go through the same process as every other conference to get it. I like the fact that the NCAA sets such guidelines. The NCAA is not some high in the sky pontificators. The NCAA is made up of University Presidents. It is now a Democratic Republic so to speak, just as our country is.

The NCAA will set similar rules in the future for conference football tournaments as they do now for conference championships.

In terms of the money, the Semifinal games will actually end up making the Conference Championship games worth even more individually than they are worth currently. The future of these tournaments is very real, Bowlsby seems to be the guy that continuously is the mouthpiece of what is coming down the line. Whether he is doing that in spitefulness of what he is hearing, or whether he is doing it at the behest of someone like DeLoss Dodds who is super traditional and hates all the change that is coming or perhaps he is just playing the game his way to try and get his conference a leg up when the Big 2 are showing more and more that they are pulling away.

He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.

You know Bowlsby, always trying to paint a picture to scare people away from what is going on. He is alluding to college football turning into something very similar to the NFL when he talks about having just two very large organizations.

I agree with you that it will likely end up with three conferences.
04-04-2013 06:15 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #47
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-04-2013 06:15 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 10:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 09:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 07:36 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  
(04-01-2013 11:22 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  There are none....yet Conference Commissioner Bowlsby certainly thinks about such so much that he thought it was important to go public about how the NCAA should stay out of the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments for football. He literally said those words. IF this concept was not regular talk within certain circles, he wouldn't have bothered to make the Big 12's stance on it public.

It is all just theory at this time that we will see conference tournaments for football in the future, but it is a pretty strong theory based upon the money interest involved in such ventures.

It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.

When Bowlsby talked publicly about Conference Football Tournaments, he let the cat out of the bag. Obviously that is a subject that is heavily talked about in the upper echelon, the Administration level. I don't know why anyone would question the validity of that. The money for those games would be astounding.

The NCAA sets regulations for across the board competition. That way every conference operates under the same standards. You want a conference championship? You have to go through the same process as every other conference to get it. I like the fact that the NCAA sets such guidelines. The NCAA is not some high in the sky pontificators. The NCAA is made up of University Presidents. It is now a Democratic Republic so to speak, just as our country is.

The NCAA will set similar rules in the future for conference football tournaments as they do now for conference championships.

In terms of the money, the Semifinal games will actually end up making the Conference Championship games worth even more individually than they are worth currently. The future of these tournaments is very real, Bowlsby seems to be the guy that continuously is the mouthpiece of what is coming down the line. Whether he is doing that in spitefulness of what he is hearing, or whether he is doing it at the behest of someone like DeLoss Dodds who is super traditional and hates all the change that is coming or perhaps he is just playing the game his way to try and get his conference a leg up when the Big 2 are showing more and more that they are pulling away.

He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.

You know Bowlsby, always trying to paint a picture to scare people away from what is going on. He is alluding to college football turning into something very similar to the NFL when he talks about having just two very large organizations.

I agree with you that it will likely end up with three conferences.

Such comments are seldom random. He may well be trying to alarm people about a change his conference doesn't want, or he could be introducing a notion into the public debate to acclimate people and their discussion to the concept. That is what Alvarez, Saban, and few AD's have done with the parameters of 60 to 70 schools, and the reduction of power conferences first from 6 to 5, then from 5 to 4, and with the talk of Big 10 expansion and SEC expansion by both Delany and Slive as it pertains to ultimate numbers that could exceed 16 to possibly even 3 conferences.

People think it is all Delany, but as the additions of A&M and Mizzou were being discussed Slive was asked if 16 would be the perfect number and his response was the perfect number was only limited by the availability of schools that raised the profitability. That is an obvious dodge of the 16 number to which so many cling.

In my opinion He1nous all such comments are designed to test the resistance level of the public and then by introducing it to the public's consciousness, and permitting its debate, they reduce by familiarity the public's resistance to it. This could be a clear indicator that much larger organizations than once thought were acceptable are in the works. Perhaps not at the next step, but the one that will come after it (the establishment of parameters following the breakaway from the NCAA).
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2013 10:02 AM by JRsec.)
04-04-2013 09:58 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #48
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-04-2013 09:58 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-04-2013 06:15 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 10:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 09:35 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  
(04-02-2013 07:36 PM)Melky Cabrera Wrote:  It's not that the NCAA is in the business of telling conferences how they can have conference tournaments. Fact is that they don't have any rules about conference tournaments.

What the NCAA does regulate is the number of games allowed in a season. The CCG is simply one of the exceptions to the limit on the maximum number of games. Basically what's involved is that the NCAA would have to allow an increase in the number of games allowed, which could open a whole unintended can of worms. The CCG exemption has already done this once as I'm sure they're acutely aware.

When Bowlsby talked publicly about Conference Football Tournaments, he let the cat out of the bag. Obviously that is a subject that is heavily talked about in the upper echelon, the Administration level. I don't know why anyone would question the validity of that. The money for those games would be astounding.

The NCAA sets regulations for across the board competition. That way every conference operates under the same standards. You want a conference championship? You have to go through the same process as every other conference to get it. I like the fact that the NCAA sets such guidelines. The NCAA is not some high in the sky pontificators. The NCAA is made up of University Presidents. It is now a Democratic Republic so to speak, just as our country is.

The NCAA will set similar rules in the future for conference football tournaments as they do now for conference championships.

In terms of the money, the Semifinal games will actually end up making the Conference Championship games worth even more individually than they are worth currently. The future of these tournaments is very real, Bowlsby seems to be the guy that continuously is the mouthpiece of what is coming down the line. Whether he is doing that in spitefulness of what he is hearing, or whether he is doing it at the behest of someone like DeLoss Dodds who is super traditional and hates all the change that is coming or perhaps he is just playing the game his way to try and get his conference a leg up when the Big 2 are showing more and more that they are pulling away.

He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.

You know Bowlsby, always trying to paint a picture to scare people away from what is going on. He is alluding to college football turning into something very similar to the NFL when he talks about having just two very large organizations.

I agree with you that it will likely end up with three conferences.

Such comments are seldom random. He may well be trying to alarm people about a change his conference doesn't want, or he could be introducing a notion into the public debate to acclimate people and their discussion to the concept. That is what Alvarez, Saban, and few AD's have done with the parameters of 60 to 70 schools, and the reduction of power conferences first from 6 to 5, then from 5 to 4, and with the talk of Big 10 expansion and SEC expansion by both Delany and Slive as it pertains to ultimate numbers that could exceed 16 to possibly even 3 conferences.

People think it is all Delany, but as the additions of A&M and Mizzou were being discussed Slive was asked if 16 would be the perfect number and his response was the perfect number was only limited by the availability of schools that raised the profitability. That is an obvious dodge of the 16 number to which so many cling.

In my opinion He1nous all such comments are designed to test the resistance level of the public and then by introducing it to the public's consciousness, and permitting its debate, they reduce by familiarity the public's resistance to it. This could be a clear indicator that much larger organizations than once thought were acceptable are in the works. Perhaps not at the next step, but the one that will come after it (the establishment of parameters following the breakaway from the NCAA).

Whether it is three conferences or two, doesn't really matter to Bowlsby. In either circumstance he is out of a job. There is absolutely some self-preservation involved in this.
04-04-2013 05:08 PM
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JunkYardCard Offline
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Post: #49
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-03-2013 10:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.

Not sure how old you are, but this is starting to remind me of the old Rollerball movie with James Caan, where the team franchises were directly owned by corporate sponsors. We aren't too far from The Fox Conference, The ESPN/ABC Conference and the NBC Conference. CBS appears to be late to the party.
(This post was last modified: 04-05-2013 12:16 PM by JunkYardCard.)
04-05-2013 12:15 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #50
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-05-2013 12:15 PM)JunkYardCard Wrote:  
(04-03-2013 10:39 PM)JRsec Wrote:  He also alluded to the possibility that the Big 2 could wind up being basically the only two. I still think 3, but two 32 to 40 team conferences is also possible some day. Especially if the college football world is divided between FOX and ESPN for tier 2 & 3 rights and then divided again for tier 1 from ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX and ESPN. Essentially two leagues comprised of 6 to 8 divisions with internal playoffs and what in essence would be a super bowl of college football. I'd rather have 4 x 16, but don't see it ultimately emerging. I'd settle for 3 x 20 or even 3 x 24. But 2 x 32 or 40 is way too NFL for my taste.

But in a two league setup FOX and ESPN would recoup their initial outlay when the other networks subsidized them for tier 1 rights. As a business model it makes sense, but for the future of college athletics it's rather chilling the amount of control they would have over the product.

Not sure how old you are, but this is starting to remind me of the old Rollerball movie with James Caan, where the team franchises were directly owned by corporate sponsors. We aren't too far from The Fox Conference, The ESPN/ABC Conference and the NBC Conference. CBS appears to be late to the party.

JOHN-A-THON! I'm not old as dirt, but I can still recall the primordial ooze! Yep, I think your Rollerball analogy is unfortunately getting to be spot on. But instead of moving toward deadlier rules (or lack thereof as they did in Rollerball) we are moving toward two hand touch.
04-05-2013 03:48 PM
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JunkYardCard Offline
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Post: #51
RE: If the SEC and B1G go to 20 and have a semi-final conference game...
(04-05-2013 03:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Yep, I think your Rollerball analogy is unfortunately getting to be spot on. But instead of moving toward deadlier rules (or lack thereof as they did in Rollerball) we are moving toward two hand touch.

Great point on the rules of the game going the other way. But corporate control is definitely more and more prevelant.
04-05-2013 04:05 PM
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