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JMU - Whats the Plan
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ODU2003 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
JMU is a good school academically and has nice facilities. Unfortunately that's where it stops.

They have no brand and their media market is 178 just behind power houses like Watertown and Lake Charles.

So the reason they haven't been added is that they don't add value financially to any conference. Is it possible they would be added to the MAC? Sure. But what incentive would the MAC have to add them at this point? It would seem unlikely they just call JMU and ask them to join knowing it would reduce the value of the other schools.

Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.
03-25-2013 11:48 AM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #22
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  JMU is a good school academically and has nice facilities. Unfortunately that's where it stops.

They have no brand and their media market is 178 just behind power houses like Watertown and Lake Charles.

So the reason they haven't been added is that they don't add value financially to any conference. Is it possible they would be added to the MAC? Sure. But what incentive would the MAC have to add them at this point? It would seem unlikely they just call JMU and ask them to join knowing it would reduce the value of the other schools.

Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

Absolutely...it flies in the face of re-alignment 101...you have to have something of value...right now it has the stadium, which is good and needed because of the market. It has prepped itself in that way...but schools like ODU have the other angles covered, facilities can be built in the time it takes to move up.
03-25-2013 12:03 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  JMU is a good school academically and has nice facilities. Unfortunately that's where it stops.

They have no brand and their media market is 178 just behind power houses like Watertown and Lake Charles.

So the reason they haven't been added is that they don't add value financially to any conference. Is it possible they would be added to the MAC? Sure. But what incentive would the MAC have to add them at this point? It would seem unlikely they just call JMU and ask them to join knowing it would reduce the value of the other schools.

Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

JMU has plenty to offer, outside of TV sets. What is holding us back is a fantastically inept administration. They rebuffed all 3 of their possible options in the last 24 months.
03-25-2013 12:05 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 12:05 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  JMU is a good school academically and has nice facilities. Unfortunately that's where it stops.

They have no brand and their media market is 178 just behind power houses like Watertown and Lake Charles.

So the reason they haven't been added is that they don't add value financially to any conference. Is it possible they would be added to the MAC? Sure. But what incentive would the MAC have to add them at this point? It would seem unlikely they just call JMU and ask them to join knowing it would reduce the value of the other schools.

Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

JMU has plenty to offer, outside of TV sets. What is holding us back is a fantastically inept administration. They rebuffed all 3 of their possible options in the last 24 months.
4 options, we were in contact with the defunct WAC. Not a good option, but an option none the less.

The biggest thing holding JMU back is its own leaders and their arrogance.
03-25-2013 12:09 PM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #25
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
I just hope W&M and JMU are in communication as this unfolds. I want the tribe to jump to Patriot like they should have a five years ago.
03-25-2013 12:31 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #26
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
And here's the real problem with JMU's thought process. If they don't have a bid to the MAC or CUSA, they're stuck in FCS. And FCS is getting thinned out by programs willing to jump up. UMass, WKU, GaSouthern, App are all longstanding FCS programs moving on.

And do they realize that if the Belt decides to take someone else, they'll be full. Realignment will eventually stabilize. There are programs that want to jump up. Jax State and the unmentionable come to mind. And then there's one school that has an automatic bid to SBC football. That would be UTA, who is a member of the SBC for all sports save football.

I would much rather have JMU than Idaho (my God, I hope we made any bid contingent on them demolishing that inappropriate stadium), or Jax State, or the other team that's begging for a bid. But if we go to 12 without you, you're probably done with us
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2013 09:28 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-25-2013 09:15 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #27
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 12:22 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  When the CAA loses Old Dominion, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason......James Madison has to do something.

Travel costs are going to soar for JMU with those Virginia schools out of there. I guess Delaware and Towson are within 3-4 hours yet. William & Mary is 3 hours.

I don't think its inconceivable that the MAC would go out to offer JMU, Delaware and Towson as a group upgrading to FBS. All 3 have been discussed at one time or another as potential MAC members.

Even with dropping men's soccer, Towson may still be noncompliant with Title IX after starting up lacrosse and then adding the extra scholarships for football. Would they be able to make the jump to FBS as is?
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2013 09:26 PM by jdgaucho.)
03-25-2013 09:26 PM
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chess Offline
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Post: #28
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

I see many comments like this. While I don't want to single you out, I want to correct your misunderstanding. College sports, as it exists today, is not capitalism. The schools are subsidized and do not work in a free market. College athletics are "country clubs" operating at the tax payer's expense.

While your comments about James Madison athletics may be true, let us not misstate the crony system in which college athletics functions.
03-25-2013 10:18 PM
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Murray007 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 09:26 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 12:22 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  When the CAA loses Old Dominion, Virginia Commonwealth and George Mason......James Madison has to do something.

Travel costs are going to soar for JMU with those Virginia schools out of there. I guess Delaware and Towson are within 3-4 hours yet. William & Mary is 3 hours.

I don't think its inconceivable that the MAC would go out to offer JMU, Delaware and Towson as a group upgrading to FBS. All 3 have been discussed at one time or another as potential MAC members.

Even with dropping men's soccer, Towson may still be noncompliant with Title IX after starting up lacrosse and then adding the extra scholarships for football. Would they be able to make the jump to FBS as is?

If Towson makes an FBS move before JMU... How horrendous to even imagine. 03-puke
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2013 10:21 PM by Murray007.)
03-25-2013 10:20 PM
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Dukes09 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 09:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And here's the real problem with JMU's thought process. If they don't have a bid to the MAC or CUSA, they're stuck in FCS. And FCS is getting thinned out by programs willing to jump up. UMass, WKU, GaSouthern, App are all longstanding FCS programs moving on.

And do they realize that if the Belt decides to take someone else, they'll be full. Realignment will eventually stabilize. There are programs that want to jump up. Jax State and the unmentionable come to mind. And then there's one school that has an automatic bid to SBC football. That would be UTA, who is a member of the SBC for all sports save football.

I would much rather have JMU than Idaho (my God, I hope we made any bid contingent on them demolishing that inappropriate stadium), or Jax State, or the other team that's begging for a bid. But if we go to 12 without you, you're probably done with us

It's highly disappointing to hear that jmu has talked with a fourth conference and NOTHING seems to be good enough for them. Throw in the fact that we offer no TV market either and you cannot be this incessantly stubborn when you aren't even the most attractive candidate out there for most conferences!!!
We're like that girl sitting by herself in a nightclub, thinking she's too good to talk to anyone or let herself flirt with anyone. She then wonders why all of her friends are married and she's 30 and single.
(This post was last modified: 03-25-2013 10:21 PM by Dukes09.)
03-25-2013 10:20 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #31
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 10:20 PM)Dukes09 Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 09:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  And here's the real problem with JMU's thought process. If they don't have a bid to the MAC or CUSA, they're stuck in FCS. And FCS is getting thinned out by programs willing to jump up. UMass, WKU, GaSouthern, App are all longstanding FCS programs moving on.

And do they realize that if the Belt decides to take someone else, they'll be full. Realignment will eventually stabilize. There are programs that want to jump up. Jax State and the unmentionable come to mind. And then there's one school that has an automatic bid to SBC football. That would be UTA, who is a member of the SBC for all sports save football.

I would much rather have JMU than Idaho (my God, I hope we made any bid contingent on them demolishing that inappropriate stadium), or Jax State, or the other team that's begging for a bid. But if we go to 12 without you, you're probably done with us

It's highly disappointing to hear that jmu has talked with a fourth conference and NOTHING seems to be good enough for them. Throw in the fact that we offer no TV market either and you cannot be this incessantly stubborn when you aren't even the most attractive candidate out there for most conferences!!!
We're like that girl sitting by herself in a nightclub, thinking she's too good to talk to anyone or let herself flirt with anyone. She then wonders why all of her friends are married and she's 30 and single.

Ok, so Tulsa to the A-12 and WKU to the CUSA. That leaves one spot open for a moveup. And things could quiet down after that. I'd much rather have JMU over Jacksonville or ***erty. But so long as we're gonna do some travelling to Idaho, I see no reason to not open it up to NDSU (if they're willing to help us defer travel expenses) at least for consideration. Or Montana. Or Montana State. Or Missouri State. Or SHSU. I could be wrong, the door could be still wide open. I don't see it that way. Too many schools above us have are locked up by huge exit fees for this to continue much longer. There's one bid out there guys. Unless CUSA takes UMass (in which case there would likely be no bids out there - but that's unlikely to happen).
03-25-2013 10:35 PM
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chess Offline
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Post: #32
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
If JMU wishes to move up, the opportunity is today. Marshall, Old Dominion, and Charlotte make nice conference mates.
03-25-2013 10:50 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #33
Re: JMU - Whats the Plan
Amen to that. Don't know why they are holding back.

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03-25-2013 11:22 PM
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ODU2003 Offline
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Post: #34
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 10:18 PM)chess Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

I see many comments like this. While I don't want to single you out, I want to correct your misunderstanding. College sports, as it exists today, is not capitalism. The schools are subsidized and do not work in a free market. College athletics are "country clubs" operating at the tax payer's expense.

While your comments about James Madison athletics may be true, let us not misstate the crony system in which college athletics functions.

Thanks for taking the time to correct what you perceived to be my misunderstanding - that was generous.

The point wasn't that realignment is actual capitalism. It was an analogy indicating there are winners and losers. Sometimes in business a good company or technology doesn't win (or even survive). Similarly in realignment good schools don't always end up in the best conference possible for their situation.

So while I appreciate you taking time out of your life to correct mine, it really wasn't necessary.
03-26-2013 08:02 AM
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chess Offline
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Post: #35
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-26-2013 08:02 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 10:18 PM)chess Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

I see many comments like this. While I don't want to single you out, I want to correct your misunderstanding. College sports, as it exists today, is not capitalism. The schools are subsidized and do not work in a free market. College athletics are "country clubs" operating at the tax payer's expense.

While your comments about James Madison athletics may be true, let us not misstate the crony system in which college athletics functions.

Thanks for taking the time to correct what you perceived to be my misunderstanding - that was generous.

The point wasn't that realignment is actual capitalism. It was an analogy indicating there are winners and losers. Sometimes in business a good company or technology doesn't win (or even survive). Similarly in realignment good schools don't always end up in the best conference possible for their situation.

So while I appreciate you taking time out of your life to correct mine, it really wasn't necessary.

Actually it was necessary. Words have meanings.

Welcome to the board. 04-cheers
03-26-2013 08:30 AM
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ODU2003 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-26-2013 08:30 AM)chess Wrote:  
(03-26-2013 08:02 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 10:18 PM)chess Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.

I see many comments like this. While I don't want to single you out, I want to correct your misunderstanding. College sports, as it exists today, is not capitalism. The schools are subsidized and do not work in a free market. College athletics are "country clubs" operating at the tax payer's expense.

While your comments about James Madison athletics may be true, let us not misstate the crony system in which college athletics functions.

Thanks for taking the time to correct what you perceived to be my misunderstanding - that was generous.

The point wasn't that realignment is actual capitalism. It was an analogy indicating there are winners and losers. Sometimes in business a good company or technology doesn't win (or even survive). Similarly in realignment good schools don't always end up in the best conference possible for their situation.

So while I appreciate you taking time out of your life to correct mine, it really wasn't necessary.

Actually it was necessary. Words have meanings.

Welcome to the board. 04-cheers

Chess - thanks for welcoming me. It does seems strange that you would specify "words have meaning" and then be so loose with yours. For example you indicate that college athletics opporate at the "..tax payer's expense." We could tear that comment up completely now couldn't we? For instance Alambama had a net income of 31 million last year. And that's before we address several of the other questionable comments you made.

My guess is that you just accidentally apply a liberal standard to yourself but are just eagerly rigid when correcting others (but perhaps you intended to be a hipocryite?).

The last word is yours but I'm going to move along now. In the future please refrain from commenting directly on my posts unless you have a coherent, worthwhile thought. I'll afford you the same respect.
03-26-2013 11:52 AM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #37
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-25-2013 08:48 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Let's say the MAC decides to go out and add James Madison and Delaware all sports. Bowling Green of course moves to the West and JMU would have 2 bus rides in the conference (Ohio, Delaware).
I see why UMass at 8hrs driving time is a flight, but why is 5hrs (OhioU) a bus ride but under 6hrs (Kent & Akron) a flight?

I don't see the MAC making two adds unless UMass gets an invite to the Big TBA ~ and the inside money is on Tulsa getting that invite, instead. It would be more likely either JMU or Delaware than both.

(03-25-2013 10:18 PM)chess Wrote:  
(03-25-2013 11:48 AM)ODU2003 Wrote:  Reallignment is capitalism - unfortunately JMU just doesn't have a great situation.
I see many comments like this. While I don't want to single you out, I want to correct your misunderstanding. College sports, as it exists today, is not capitalism. The schools are subsidized and do not work in a free market. College athletics are "country clubs" operating at the tax payer's expense.
None of the counter arguments actually contradict the claim ~ it just says that college sports is another real world example of crony capitalism rather than some idealized competitive free market capitalism.
(This post was last modified: 03-26-2013 12:42 PM by BruceMcF.)
03-26-2013 12:26 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #38
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
It sounds like from reports today within the next 2-3 weeks the Tulsa to Aresco League and WKU to CUSA shoes are going to drop. At that point James Madison will be on the clock.

The MAC is running low on FB only options that have enough capacity for the FBS level. Missouri State, North Dakota St, James Madison and Delaware. Almost one of these schools have to move up into the MAC.

I think because the Missouri State situation is so similar to UMass in that its the #2 FB school in a reasonably populated state that might be the best value move for the MAC if they want to go the FB only direction.

It does not look like Delaware is even in the cards for the MAC if they are pursing an invite to the Atlantic 10. Delaware is also a smaller school with a more limited in state recruiting base than what you find at James Madison.

For the MAC the options are probably this by rank:

1) Missouri State
2) James Madison
3) Delaware

JMU I think could very well end up in the Sun Belt particularly because the division they would be playing in contains App State, GS, Troy, GSU and USA for all sports. That would be hard to turn down for staying in the CAA if Delaware also hits the exits for the A10.
03-26-2013 03:17 PM
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JMU2004 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=206935161

VERY different tune out of JMU today. We have been the biggest supporters of the CAA. That changed this afternoon.
03-26-2013 03:25 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: JMU - Whats the Plan
(03-26-2013 03:25 PM)JMU2004 Wrote:  http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=206935161

VERY different tune out of JMU today. We have been the biggest supporters of the CAA. That changed this afternoon.

If they are waiting until this summer to complete their strategic plan they won't be ready to pull the gun on a move to FBS this spring.

It sounds like JMU is going to end up stuck in a watered down version of the CAA unfortunately.
03-26-2013 03:30 PM
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