(03-18-2013 12:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  I think the biggest problem the C7 will have is say they remain 10 teams and get 6 schools in the tourney. The perception, right or wrong, will be that it's a letdown from the era that is ending. Esp. if the ACC is getting in 8 teams a year or more.

Stever what do you care what other people think? Do YOU believe that getting 6 of 10 teams in is a bad thing? The committee sure doesn't. Look at the respect they gave to the A-10 and MWC. Thats the only people you need to impress. They are smarter than we give them credit for.

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Interesting post. Thanks for working this up for us. Can you work up NIT?

Looks like ACC and C7/12 are winners here. C7/12 in that they didnt allow their situation to deteoriate in Nbe/A12.

Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

To be fair, if UConn was eligible, the unnamed conference would have likley had 5 of 10 in the tournament. 50% aint bad. As it is, 40% of the (insert generic name here) league is in.

(03-18-2013 01:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Interesting post. Thanks for working this up for us. Can you work up NIT?

Looks like ACC and C7/12 are winners here. C7/12 in that they didnt allow their situation to deteoriate in Nbe/A12.

Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

To be fair, if UConn was eligible, the unnamed conference would have likley had 5 of 10 in the tournament. 50% aint bad. As it is, 40% of the (insert generic name here) league is in.

Where are the 5? I count 4. Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn and ????

(03-18-2013 01:29 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Interesting post. Thanks for working this up for us. Can you work up NIT?

Looks like ACC and C7/12 are winners here. C7/12 in that they didnt allow their situation to deteoriate in Nbe/A12.

Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

To be fair, if UConn was eligible, the unnamed conference would have likley had 5 of 10 in the tournament. 50% aint bad. As it is, 40% of the (insert generic name here) league is in.

Where are the 5? I count 4. Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn and ????

Think he was using next year so Louisville.

(03-18-2013 01:36 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:29 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:27 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

To be fair, if UConn was eligible, the unnamed conference would have likley had 5 of 10 in the tournament. 50% aint bad. As it is, 40% of the (insert generic name here) league is in.

Where are the 5? I count 4. Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn and ????

Think he was using next year so Louisville.

Oooooooooooooh I C I C

If C7 had stayed- and UConn was eligible-
BE would have had-
Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn- that's 7 right there. For next year Louisville. That's 8. If the talk had been right to bring in Butler and Xavier- that's 9 with Butler.

(03-18-2013 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If C7 had stayed- and UConn was eligible-
BE would have had-
Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn- that's 7 right there. For next year Louisville. That's 8. If the talk had been right to bring in Butler and Xavier- that's 9 with Butler.

probably not because you have to take in the fact that all of our RPI's and SOS's take a HUUUUUGE hit with SMU, Houston, Tulane, ECU, and UCF replacing UofL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and WVU.

We were right to leave and bringing in a bunch of good programs.

What if UConn and Cincy leave by '15 or sooner?

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Interesting post. Thanks for working this up for us. Can you work up NIT?

Looks like ACC and C7/12 are winners here. C7/12 in that they didnt allow their situation to deteoriate in Nbe/A12.

Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

Not to be critical but it's a big assumption that when all the conference switching takes place that all teams who got in this year in the BE would also get in next year in the ACC. Therefore I can't crown the ACC as the Premier Hoops Conference. I would put them in the top 3 with the Big 10 and Big East.

Regarding the A12, their hoops standing will depend on who else they may invite and will add. UConn, Cincy, Memphis & Temple are solid cornerstones and adding VCU would definitely vault the A12 up a few notches to right below the top 3 leagues IMO and better than the SEC, 12 PAC or Big 12.

(03-18-2013 02:05 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If C7 had stayed- and UConn was eligible-
BE would have had-
Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn- that's 7 right there. For next year Louisville. That's 8. If the talk had been right to bring in Butler and Xavier- that's 9 with Butler.

probably not because you have to take in the fact that all of our RPI's and SOS's take a HUUUUUGE hit with SMU, Houston, Tulane, ECU, and UCF replacing UofL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and WVU.

We were right to leave and bringing in a bunch of good programs.

What if UConn and Cincy leave by '15 or sooner?

UCF was 100 RPI this year. That's not a huge hit at all.

Also- OOC RPI- which is important (remember ECU was fb only)
UCF 93
Tulane 72
SMU 119
Houston 101
Cincy 13
UConn 30
Memphis 58
Temple 51

(03-18-2013 02:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 02:05 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If C7 had stayed- and UConn was eligible-
BE would have had-
Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn- that's 7 right there. For next year Louisville. That's 8. If the talk had been right to bring in Butler and Xavier- that's 9 with Butler.

probably not because you have to take in the fact that all of our RPI's and SOS's take a HUUUUUGE hit with SMU, Houston, Tulane, ECU, and UCF replacing UofL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and WVU.

We were right to leave and bringing in a bunch of good programs.

What if UConn and Cincy leave by '15 or sooner?

UCF was 100 RPI this year. That's not a huge hit at all.

Also- OOC RPI- which is important (remember ECU was fb only)
UCF 93
Tulane 72
SMU 119
Houston 101
Cincy 13
UConn 30
Memphis 58
Temple 51

OMG Stever stop pining for the Aresco 12. If you don't think the new league is better for us than you are a lost cause.

(03-18-2013 02:18 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 02:16 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 02:05 PM)NJRedMan Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  If C7 had stayed- and UConn was eligible-
BE would have had-
Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, UConn- that's 7 right there. For next year Louisville. That's 8. If the talk had been right to bring in Butler and Xavier- that's 9 with Butler.

probably not because you have to take in the fact that all of our RPI's and SOS's take a HUUUUUGE hit with SMU, Houston, Tulane, ECU, and UCF replacing UofL, Cuse, Pitt, ND and WVU.

We were right to leave and bringing in a bunch of good programs.

What if UConn and Cincy leave by '15 or sooner?

UCF was 100 RPI this year. That's not a huge hit at all.

Also- OOC RPI- which is important (remember ECU was fb only)
UCF 93
Tulane 72
SMU 119
Houston 101
Cincy 13
UConn 30
Memphis 58
Temple 51

OMG Stever stop pining for the Aresco 12. If you don't think the new league is better for us than you are a lost cause.

I'm just refuting your thought that our RPI's would have taken a huge hit. With how they did OOC, it wouldn't have been.

I think both leagues are going to be significant basketball leagues going forward. The MVC is going backward in its replacement for Creighton as is the A-10, who's losses are deep, which will in turn hurt the CAA. The Southern Conference is going to feel the hurt soon with App and Georgia Southern moving to the Sun Belt...and where is CUSA in this? Can ODU come back from this year? Can Charlotte return to its old CUSA ways? I'm thinking CUSA is moving laterally as a 1 bid, sometimes 2 bid league...probably the same for the A-10.

95% of the basketball at-large bids are going to come from 8 leagues going forward...The Big 5, then the Big East, MWC and Aresco League. The other 5% will come from the WCC, MVC, CUSA or A-10....everyone else will be a one bid league.

(03-18-2013 02:52 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  and where is CUSA in this? Can ODU come back from this year? Can Charlotte return to its old CUSA ways? I'm thinking CUSA is moving laterally as a 1 bid, sometimes 2 bid league...

RPI teams Top 150 this year:
MTSU - 28
USM - 31
La Tech - 53
Charlotte - 68
UTEP - 95
ECU (for 1 year) - 100
FIU - 110
Tulsa - 127
UAB - 144
WKU (??) - 150

Difference between 1 and more will be how the top teams distance themselves from the bottom. The Top 4 need to sweep the bottom 4 cause the bottom is going to be bad. ODU and UAB are at historical lows, can they rebound?

(03-18-2013 08:55 AM)orangefan Wrote:  Now
1)BE8
2)B1G 7
3)A10 5
4)B12 5
5)MWC5
6)P12 5
7)ACC4
8)SEC3
9)MVC2
10)WCC2
SBC 2
CUSA 1

Future
1)ACC8
2)B1G 7
3)BE6
4)B12 5
5)MWC5
6)P12 5
7)SEC3
8)A12 3
9)A10 2
10)WCC2
CUSA1
MVC1
SBC1

My biggest takeaways.....

-ACC is going to take the place of the oBE as the new power basketball conference. This should help them down the road negotiating TV deals just like it helped the Big East secure a 13.8 million dollar offer from ESPN that wasn't signed.

-I can't see the MVC losing Creighton and placing them with Oral Roberts and continuing to stay on the same level. They'll pick up an at-large bid occasionally like a lot of leagues rated #11-#15.

-The A10 is going to be the top mid major in the East even with the defections. The Aresco League is going to be thought of more of as a major in basketball even as a G5 conference.

The problem that CUSA will have is the OOC schedule. This year the 16 teams in CUSA next year average OOC RPI is 149.94. So, when you get into conference play, you are building off of that..

For comparision sakes- the A12 is like 70. The BE is like 50. The teams have to perform OOC.

(03-18-2013 02:52 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I think both leagues are going to be significant basketball leagues going forward. The MVC is going backward in its replacement for Creighton as is the A-10, who's losses are deep, which will in turn hurt the CAA. The Southern Conference is going to feel the hurt soon with App and Georgia Southern moving to the Sun Belt...and where is CUSA in this? Can ODU come back from this year? Can Charlotte return to its old CUSA ways? I'm thinking CUSA is moving laterally as a 1 bid, sometimes 2 bid league...probably the same for the A-10.

95% of the basketball at-large bids are going to come from 8 leagues going forward...The Big 5, then the Big East, MWC and Aresco League. The other 5% will come from the WCC, MVC, CUSA or A-10....everyone else will be a one bid league.

This is pretty much true. I feel pretty good about the A10 if they can pick apart the CAA maintaining regular 2 bid status and 3 in some years.

Still a lot of tradition left in the A10. There are years where a school like George Washington or St. Joe's will come out of nowhere and have a Top 10 season. The performance of the bottom feeders in this league is usually good enough.

(03-18-2013 02:06 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-18-2013 09:03 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  Interesting post. Thanks for working this up for us. Can you work up NIT?

Looks like ACC and C7/12 are winners here. C7/12 in that they didnt allow their situation to deteoriate in Nbe/A12.

Lol....thier situation in terms of conference NCAA bids is identical to what it would have been if they had not split. The C-7 based Big East will have 6 NCAA bids. The unnamed conference has just 3 NCAA bids--but had the C-7 stayed, the conference would have had 6 NCAA bids as well. Also, keep in mind UConn was not eligible this year.

6/18 is a little different than 6/12. (Or 5/10, if we don't count SLU yet).

Stever, yes, the ACC has taken the mantle of Premier Basketball Conference. But as long as we're sending about half of our teams every year, we're in the conversation with them.

Not to be critical but it's a big assumption that when all the conference switching takes place that all teams who got in this year in the BE would also get in next year in the ACC. Therefore I can't crown the ACC as the Premier Hoops Conference. I would put them in the top 3 with the Big 10 and Big East.

Regarding the A12, their hoops standing will depend on who else they may invite and will add. UConn, Cincy, Memphis & Temple are solid cornerstones and adding VCU would definitely vault the A12 up a few notches to right below the top 3 leagues IMO and better than the SEC, 12 PAC or Big 12.

A12 should consider adding Witcha St., VCU, College of Charleston, & USL