(03-16-2013 01:36 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Do you really not see the difference in VT's situation and the one facing UVa, UNC, etc....?

They know they have invites. Joining that lawsuit shows where they want to be.

You do what you have to do maintain your standing as a member of a conference until the moment you don't have to. Like the Hokies did once. That's all.

(03-16-2013 01:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  I'm saying that between now and then end of the ACC year (June 31?) something is going to happen. After that point the exit fee is more defensible if indeed the bylaws were violated by setting a fee that immediately took effect.

June 31?

(03-16-2013 01:31 PM)justinslot Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:25 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  Virginia Tech never thought they would get an ACC invite. UVa, UNC, GT, etc... know that they are the Big Ten's top targets. Your comparison would work for a school like Wake Forest who doesn't believe an invite is coming but not for the main players.

(WF wouldn't change it's mind if got one because the ACC is an ideal home for us.)

I wouldn't read anything into who is suing who, is my point.

Actually I think he makes a very good point. Why would a school jump aboard to enhance the ACC's position in litigation if that same school wanted to do what Maryland is doing soon?

Seriously, if there is a single president in the ACC that seriously considering leaving and challenging the ACC exit fee all the while simultaneously signing off on the ACC to aggressively pursue the money from Maryland he's one of the dumbest sob's on the planet. There is no logic in that.

(03-16-2013 08:30 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  20-30 million? Conveniently probably the same amount Maryland ends up paying to the ACC as an exit fee.

A lump sum paid to Maryland for future travel expenses for years to come? Yeah....right. Nice cover story for getting money to Maryland to help pay the expected exit fee amount.

In regards to Rutgers, they don't have nearly the exit fee to pay. Also, they wouldn't have gotten in without Maryland agreeing to come first.

Agree with this 100%

(03-16-2013 01:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  I'm saying that between now and then end of the ACC year (June 31?) something is going to happen. After that point the exit fee is more defensible if indeed the bylaws were violated by setting a fee that immediately took effect.

Notification to leave has to be submitted by August 15th of the year preceding the actual move.

(03-16-2013 02:10 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  I'm saying that between now and then end of the ACC year (June 31?) something is going to happen. After that point the exit fee is more defensible if indeed the bylaws were violated by setting a fee that immediately took effect.

Notification to leave has to be submitted by August 15th of the year preceding the actual move.

Unless you are in the Big 12 and a, "less than 12 month notice", will cost cost a school an exit fee of $31 million.

I can't believe this has run 7 pages. The issues are these:
1. Obviously the 30 million is for more than just travel. I think most everyone agrees on that.

2. 30 million could cover the portion of the exit fee not anticipated by Maryland who had agreed to a fee of 20 million, not 52 million.

3. The gift of such a consideration does indicate that a larger fee than 20 million is expected to be imposed, a fee in the neighborhood of 50 million to be precise.

4. Even if the fee is only 20 million there is only one ACC school beside Maryland that voted against the 52 million, Florida State.

5. If any of the remaining schools (even after a loss of Florida State) wanted to consider a move they would be subject to the 52 million dollar fee.

6. If Maryland's fee is indeed upheld at 52 million which this travel boon seems to indicate then not even Florida State will be able to escape without paying it.

7. Since most conferences expand in pairs allowances of up to $104 million would have to be given to facilitate the move, 64 million on the low side.

8. It appears the ACC will be fine unless someone wants to give up access to 64 million in a down economy, and maybe even as much as 104 million.

9. It appears as though the ACC will not lose another school if the 52 million is upheld, or possibly lose no more than 1 additional school if Maryland has to pay the original $20 million they agreed to.

10. I'd say with minor moves yet to be made that realignment may be over with for a while.

11. Slive has gone from saying that the SEC would respond to what was happening around them to the quote he gave yesterday: "12 was a family", "14 is more like cousins", "16 is like distant relatives." He is not a man of many words, but that is a significant statement.

12. Notre Dame would not have committed to the ACC early unless they were certain of its future.

That's it.

(03-16-2013 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I can't believe this has run 7 pages. The issues are these:
1. Obviously the 30 million is for more than just travel. I think most everyone agrees on that.

2. 30 million could cover the portion of the exit fee not anticipated by Maryland who had agreed to a fee of 20 million, not 52 million.

3. The gift of such a consideration does indicate that a larger fee than 20 million is expected to be imposed, a fee in the neighborhood of 50 million to be precise.

4. Even if the fee is only 20 million there is only one ACC school beside Maryland that voted against the 52 million, Florida State.

5. If any of the remaining schools (even after a loss of Florida State) wanted to consider a move they would be subject to the 52 million dollar fee.

6. If Maryland's fee is indeed upheld at 52 million which this travel boon seems to indicate then not even Florida State will be able to escape without paying it.

7. Since most conferences expand in pairs allowances of up to $104 million would have to be given to facilitate the move, 64 million on the low side.

8. It appears the ACC will be fine unless someone wants to give up access to 64 million in a down economy, and maybe even as much as 104 million.

9. It appears as though the ACC will not lose another school if the 52 million is upheld, or possibly lose no more than 1 additional school if Maryland has to pay the original $20 million they agreed to.

10. I'd say with minor moves yet to be made that realignment may be over with for a while.

11. Slive has gone from saying that the SEC would respond to what was happening around them to the quote he gave yesterday: "12 was a family", "14 is more like cousins", "16 is like distant relatives." He is not a man of many words, but that is a significant statement.

12. Notre Dame would not have committed to the ACC early unless they were certain of its future.

That's it.

JR that's a pretty good summary of everything that has been said on this board for quite a while.

(03-16-2013 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I can't believe this has run 7 pages.

7 pages? You know you can adjust that, right?

(03-16-2013 01:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 01:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  I'm saying that between now and then end of the ACC year (June 31?) something is going to happen. After that point the exit fee is more defensible if indeed the bylaws were violated by setting a fee that immediately took effect.

June 31?

Everyone together now, Thirty days hath September, April, June.......

(03-16-2013 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I can't believe this has run 7 pages. The issues are these:
1. Obviously the 30 million is for more than just travel. I think most everyone agrees on that.

2. 30 million could cover the portion of the exit fee not anticipated by Maryland who had agreed to a fee of 20 million, not 52 million.

3. The gift of such a consideration does indicate that a larger fee than 20 million is expected to be imposed, a fee in the neighborhood of 50 million to be precise.

4. Even if the fee is only 20 million there is only one ACC school beside Maryland that voted against the 52 million, Florida State.

5. If any of the remaining schools (even after a loss of Florida State) wanted to consider a move they would be subject to the 52 million dollar fee.

6. If Maryland's fee is indeed upheld at 52 million which this travel boon seems to indicate then not even Florida State will be able to escape without paying it.

7. Since most conferences expand in pairs allowances of up to $104 million would have to be given to facilitate the move, 64 million on the low side.

8. It appears the ACC will be fine unless someone wants to give up access to 64 million in a down economy, and maybe even as much as 104 million.

9. It appears as though the ACC will not lose another school if the 52 million is upheld, or possibly lose no more than 1 additional school if Maryland has to pay the original $20 million they agreed to.

10. I'd say with minor moves yet to be made that realignment may be over with for a while.

11. Slive has gone from saying that the SEC would respond to what was happening around them to the quote he gave yesterday: "12 was a family", "14 is more like cousins", "16 is like distant relatives." He is not a man of many words, but that is a significant statement.

12. Notre Dame would not have committed to the ACC early unless they were certain of its future.

That's it.

Once again...no it doesnt. It could just as easily mean that the Big Ten agreed to pay whatever cost Maryland would have to pay to leave the ACC.

Since it is 20 million to 30 million to Maryland, that could be the eventual negotiated exit fee.

But don't stop me from talking some sense into you, you have your little ACC mob cheering you on now here.

(03-16-2013 11:38 AM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 11:05 AM)Fireman451 Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 08:30 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  20-30 million? Conveniently probably the same amount Maryland ends up paying to the ACC as an exit fee.

A lump sum paid to Maryland for future travel expenses for years to come? Yeah....right. Nice cover story for getting money to Maryland to help pay the expected exit fee amount.

In regards to Rutgers, they don't have nearly the exit fee to pay. Also, they wouldn't have gotten in without Maryland agreeing to come first.

Yep, you got it.

Rutgers was obviously an afterthought. Certainly doesn't suggest that anyone expects Rutgers to make up their share of an extra cut of conference disbursals. Nor frankly does even the most optimistic BTN projections seem to work for Maryland. Big10 members are almost assured of making less money per school having added these two. Yes, their per school payout will increase with their next contract, but MD and RU will have very little to do with it and almost assuredly will not make up the difference of splitting it for two extra mouths. This makes it look like a pure strategy move to counter the ACC's northeastern push, and frankly, looks somewhat desperate. PSU must have been raising some serious noise.

What? Less? The Big Ten Network is the money making machine. It isn't the conference. It is forcing cable companies to add the Big Ten Network to the lower tier service and the fee per subscriber.

(03-16-2013 04:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I can't believe this has run 7 pages. The issues are these:
1. Obviously the 30 million is for more than just travel. I think most everyone agrees on that.

2. 30 million could cover the portion of the exit fee not anticipated by Maryland who had agreed to a fee of 20 million, not 52 million.

3. The gift of such a consideration does indicate that a larger fee than 20 million is expected to be imposed, a fee in the neighborhood of 50 million to be precise.

4. Even if the fee is only 20 million there is only one ACC school beside Maryland that voted against the 52 million, Florida State.

5. If any of the remaining schools (even after a loss of Florida State) wanted to consider a move they would be subject to the 52 million dollar fee.

6. If Maryland's fee is indeed upheld at 52 million which this travel boon seems to indicate then not even Florida State will be able to escape without paying it.

7. Since most conferences expand in pairs allowances of up to $104 million would have to be given to facilitate the move, 64 million on the low side.

8. It appears the ACC will be fine unless someone wants to give up access to 64 million in a down economy, and maybe even as much as 104 million.

9. It appears as though the ACC will not lose another school if the 52 million is upheld, or possibly lose no more than 1 additional school if Maryland has to pay the original $20 million they agreed to.

10. I'd say with minor moves yet to be made that realignment may be over with for a while.

11. Slive has gone from saying that the SEC would respond to what was happening around them to the quote he gave yesterday: "12 was a family", "14 is more like cousins", "16 is like distant relatives." He is not a man of many words, but that is a significant statement.

12. Notre Dame would not have committed to the ACC early unless they were certain of its future.

That's it.

Once again...no it doesnt. It could just as easily mean that the Big Ten agreed to pay whatever cost Maryland would have to pay to leave the ACC.

Since it is 20 million to 30 million to Maryland, that could be the eventual negotiated exit fee.

But don't stop me from talking some sense into you, you have your little ACC mob cheering you on now here.

Come on now He1nous, there is no mob. When this became a struggle between networks the whole dynamic shifted. The quote from Slive was particularly telling yesterday. It came in a press conference that followed the announcement that the SEC Network details would be made in mid April. When this was just about conferences and their actual or proposed networks the 18 and 20 team scenarios were likely, not just probable. But when this became about the purchased property of two networks vying for the control of College football product it became clear that things would be locked down until new strategies developed.

I'm sure Delany may have had grander plans when he invited Maryland and Rutgers, but FOX and YES Network changed that paradigm by making public the extent of FOX's future sports broadcasting plans. That's when things went into lock-down mode.

And I think that's a good thing. In the end we are all probably going to be glad that a little more tradition is preserved.

We may still move to 4 conferences of between 16 to 18 teams for a final upper tier of between 68 to 72 teams, but perhaps that final step will be carefully negotiated rather than hostile. But for now with the possible exception of Cincinnati, Connecticut, possibly South Florida and Central Florida, and maybe B.Y.U. finding new homes I think this is about over. Florida State has a low probability of being the last from a power conference to move at this time. But, I'm not expecting that move to happen.

What the hell are you talking about? I am talking simply about what the Big Ten giving 20-30 million to Maryland could mean. It does not definitively say that Maryland is ending up paying 50 million and you know that. It could mean that but it could just as well mean that the Big Ten agreed to pay all of Maryland's fee's and that could end up being somewhere between 20-30 million but the exact amount is yet to be fully negotiated.

All the rest of what you said really has nothing to do with this particular subject.

And yes you do have yourself a little love fest going on with XLance and your constant giving each other reputation so don't try to deny that you are pandering to their little mob. That doesn't make your idea's any more feasible. He supports anything that sounds good. He is nothing but a cheerleader. That is why I don't post here much anymore. It is nothing but cheerleader BS and most of the quality posters don't post here anymore.

(03-16-2013 04:04 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-16-2013 02:51 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I can't believe this has run 7 pages. The issues are these:
1. Obviously the 30 million is for more than just travel. I think most everyone agrees on that.

2. 30 million could cover the portion of the exit fee not anticipated by Maryland who had agreed to a fee of 20 million, not 52 million.

3. The gift of such a consideration does indicate that a larger fee than 20 million is expected to be imposed, a fee in the neighborhood of 50 million to be precise.

4. Even if the fee is only 20 million there is only one ACC school beside Maryland that voted against the 52 million, Florida State.

5. If any of the remaining schools (even after a loss of Florida State) wanted to consider a move they would be subject to the 52 million dollar fee.

6. If Maryland's fee is indeed upheld at 52 million which this travel boon seems to indicate then not even Florida State will be able to escape without paying it.

7. Since most conferences expand in pairs allowances of up to $104 million would have to be given to facilitate the move, 64 million on the low side.

8. It appears the ACC will be fine unless someone wants to give up access to 64 million in a down economy, and maybe even as much as 104 million.

9. It appears as though the ACC will not lose another school if the 52 million is upheld, or possibly lose no more than 1 additional school if Maryland has to pay the original $20 million they agreed to.

10. I'd say with minor moves yet to be made that realignment may be over with for a while.

11. Slive has gone from saying that the SEC would respond to what was happening around them to the quote he gave yesterday: "12 was a family", "14 is more like cousins", "16 is like distant relatives." He is not a man of many words, but that is a significant statement.

12. Notre Dame would not have committed to the ACC early unless they were certain of its future.

That's it.

Once again...no it doesnt. It could just as easily mean that the Big Ten agreed to pay whatever cost Maryland would have to pay to leave the ACC.

Since it is 20 million to 30 million to Maryland, that could be the eventual negotiated exit fee.

But don't stop me from talking some sense into you, you have your little ACC mob cheering you on now here.

Thing that has me puzzled, MD., by all accounts, has been fronted some money from future earnings in order to make this deal happen. Now, they are given a $20-$30 million dollar "gift" to compensate for travel. At some point, I have to wonder, what is the point of diminishing returns?

...or it could be a ten year sum to cover the 2-3mm annual increase in travel costs like they imply.

(03-16-2013 04:55 PM)S11 Wrote:  ...or it could be a ten year sum to cover the 2-3mm annual increase in travel costs like they imply.

Nooooo this is conference realignment! Everything always means something else!

(03-16-2013 04:55 PM)S11 Wrote:  ...or it could be a ten year sum to cover the 2-3mm annual increase in travel costs like they imply.

How much are they making now and how much will they be making in the BIG? I see that the premise of paying extra for travel sounds reasonable, but with the money they will be drawing from the conference, I tend to believe there was more to this than the travel.

(03-16-2013 04:45 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  What the hell are you talking about? I am talking simply about what the Big Ten giving 20-30 million to Maryland could mean. It does not definitively say that Maryland is ending up paying 50 million and you know that. It could mean that but it could just as well mean that the Big Ten agreed to pay all of Maryland's fee's and that could end up being somewhere between 20-30 million but the exact amount is yet to be fully negotiated.

All the rest of what you said really has nothing to do with this particular subject.

And yes you do have yourself a little love fest going on with XLance and your constant giving each other reputation so don't try to deny that you are pandering to their little mob. That doesn't make your idea's any more feasible. He supports anything that sounds good. He is nothing but a cheerleader. That is why I don't post here much anymore. It is nothing but cheerleader BS and most of the quality posters don't post here anymore.

You need to stop and check your claims. Everyone on this board has folks who agree with their posts and those who do not. There are no cheerleaders. XLance has had some rather profound disagreements with me in the past when I was more inclined to think that there would be three conferences of 20 or more because of the networks and financial rewards. You got a great deal of support from some of the West Virginia posters but nobody claimed that you were getting "a mob" together. That's just life and the way it works.

You think outside of the box and do a great job of laying out those scenarios. Some of them are plausible and some are not. Sometimes even the implausible ones illustrate points that need to be looked at and picked over. That's a great conversation starter for a chat room board. But just because others don't agree with you there is no reason to go off. The facts right now just don't support a big raid upon the ACC. The stuff that has happened in the last couple of days is shifting away from the likelihood of such and not towards it. You have made your views on the subject way more important to yourself than they should be. I would hate to see you leave the board, but sometimes each of us is just wrong, or we made a prediction that won't come true. If that happens and we have married ourselves to the position that is embarrassing, but it doesn't have to be. We are all entitled to our opinions, our likes, and our dislikes. Nobody I take seriously has insulted you, called you names, or assaulted you for your views. The fact that you go ballistic over nothing of great consequence means you are taking what for most of us is a welcome distraction from the world way too seriously. And that means you are taking yourself way too seriously. Lighten up, wind down, and stick around. I for one enjoy reading your ideas, even when I don't agree with them. You once told me to lay off the global stuff because this was an escape for you. You were right, and I have enjoyed it more. But if the Big 10 doesn't expand further and the ACC survives is that going to hurt anybody who posts here? Heck no, nor should it.

XLance is not your enemy and neither is anybody else here. If I'm wrong and Delany devours the ACC so what, I was wrong. My son-in-law was just diagnosed with metastatic cancer. That is important, this is just an escape.

And just for the record in my entire time on this board XLance has given me 2 reputation points and I have given him 6. Hardly a love fest or a mob.

Will be interesting to see how large of a "travel subsidy" FSU will be worth or Miami or both of the Florida programs?