(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:46 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 06:22 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:51 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:22 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  I could see App State. They're atleast within realm of the footprint. UL Lafayette or Ark St. are getting pretty far south.

I can't see Appy State in the MAC; the MAC is mostly urban schools although some could argue that Ohio isn't in a real urban area since Athens is in the middle of nowhere

I've been to Athens more than once and it's a ***** of a drive

I'm still hoping that Marshall goes back to the MAC. I don't think that the C-USA will last past the next round of expansion and I think that MAC is a much better landing spot than the Sun Belt. Closer teams and a history in the league

Having said that, I doubt that Marshall will be invite to the America 12 or whatever name the new BE is going to be named.

Either the Aresco League folds or it loads up heavily with CUSA teams. The question then comes as to whether or not CUSA reloads with Sun Belt and some MAC schools or if those two conferences are able to keep their line ups intact and CUSA folds. If that is the case then I do think Marshall would end up in the MAC.

Again. Nobody in the MAC is leaving for CUSA at this point or else it would have happened already.

I'm pretty sure that's because CUSA doesn't want those teams. Banowsky doesn't go for established-but-mediocre rust belt schools. (Who does?) He goes for schools he perceives as up-and-coming, mostly in the south. Those MAC schools are too tight with a dollar to ever condone CUSA's sky-high administrative expenses, not the least of which is Banowsky's own salary.

That's what I was about to say. I don't know where this atttude that the MAC is so great is coming from . There are some nice programs in there in both football and basketball but a lot of the teams go up and down in cycles just as with CUSA and the Aresco league. But I will also say that the 6 Ohio schools aren't going to leave 5 others behind to join a league with no other Ohio schools. Makes no sense for them either.

Living in Ohio, I certainly don't get how the MAC can act like they are better than the new version of CUSA. As for this guy calling CUSA, FCS laden, well ODU is the only one coming from there. Sure others have spent time there but that is what happens with new schools.

With the MAC, many of these schools have been around 70 or more years in football with mediocre or bad results. So there was no FCS when they started. Schools like Ohio just won their 1st bowl game in the last couple of years. Akron/Kent St/Ohio have been jokes way more often than being good. BG/Toledo have bad years as well but have more success in recent decades overall.

CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

(03-15-2013 12:13 AM)Poliicious Wrote:  NIU is not really an urban school, neither is BSU or CMU or Miami for that matter. Buffalo, UMASS, Toledo, EMU & WMU yes.

Ypsilanti? Urban?

Because nothing says urban like this:


Kalamazoo and Amherst are stretching it a bit, but I can buy it.

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

I'll take the 2011 CUSA result (two teams in the final top 20 and at least one more getting votes) over NIU's little trip to the slaughterhouse. Besides, NIU isn't exactly a typical MAC team. They've parked themselves in the MAC, but they've got less history with the league than Miami, Ohio U, etc

(03-15-2013 08:56 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

I'll take the 2011 CUSA result (two teams in the final top 20 and at least one more getting votes) over NIU's little trip to the slaughterhouse. Besides, NIU isn't exactly a typical MAC team. They've parked themselves in the MAC, but they've got less history with the league than Miami, Ohio U, etc

2003 season
Miami ended the season ranked #11
BGSU ended the season ranked #24
NIU ended the season in the top 30 receiving votes.

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

An undeserved berth from a MAC title game with 2 teams who beat absolutely nobody worthy of giving them a BCS berth chance. It was a fluke year where the BCS buster beat nobody worth a damn and still got in.

Look my sister went to Kent State but I can say that neither of those teams in that title game were BCS worthy. Kent St lost to Kentucky by 33 and NIU lost to a bad Iowa team in the only OOC game worth a damn on their schedule. Doesn't scream BCS teams to me.

The MAC is a nice conference outside of the power 5. It is better than the Sun Belt now and before the teams left. But I don't see how people can act like they are a better league than CUSA overall.

(03-15-2013 08:56 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

I'll take the 2011 CUSA result (two teams in the final top 20 and at least one more getting votes) over NIU's little trip to the slaughterhouse. Besides, NIU isn't exactly a typical MAC team. They've parked themselves in the MAC, but they've got less history with the league than Miami, Ohio U, etc

Who earned more money from post-season? NIU slaughterhouse or CUSA Top 20? I don't know...just asking.

You have to consider that.

(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:46 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 06:22 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:51 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 08:22 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  I could see App State. They're atleast within realm of the footprint. UL Lafayette or Ark St. are getting pretty far south.

I can't see Appy State in the MAC; the MAC is mostly urban schools although some could argue that Ohio isn't in a real urban area since Athens is in the middle of nowhere

I've been to Athens more than once and it's a ***** of a drive

I'm still hoping that Marshall goes back to the MAC. I don't think that the C-USA will last past the next round of expansion and I think that MAC is a much better landing spot than the Sun Belt. Closer teams and a history in the league

Having said that, I doubt that Marshall will be invite to the America 12 or whatever name the new BE is going to be named.

Either the Aresco League folds or it loads up heavily with CUSA teams. The question then comes as to whether or not CUSA reloads with Sun Belt and some MAC schools or if those two conferences are able to keep their line ups intact and CUSA folds. If that is the case then I do think Marshall would end up in the MAC.

Again. Nobody in the MAC is leaving for CUSA at this point or else it would have happened already.

I'm pretty sure that's because CUSA doesn't want those teams. Banowsky doesn't go for established-but-mediocre rust belt schools. (Who does?) He goes for schools he perceives as up-and-coming, mostly in the south. Those MAC schools are too tight with a dollar to ever condone CUSA's sky-high administrative expenses, not the least of which is Banowsky's own salary.

Back in 2003 when the decision to add Marshall was made by CUSA they tried to convince either Miami OR Toledo to join them in the conference.

Miami and Toledo said it had to be both schools or else it didn't make sense due to travel costs. That is to join a CUSA that had TCU as a member at the time. CUSA didn't want both so the move didn't happen.

I know Ohio has certainly had conversations with CUSA during this realignment period but the school has been aiming higher (Aresco League) which sent reps to the Independence Bowl. The school has also explored putting basketball into the MVC or A10 while remaining in the MAC for football. This I can say as an insider.

With the possibility of an Aresco League invite for the past year hanging out there, a near certainty if Cincinnati leaves, there is no way Ohio would consider a CUSA invite. The same applies to UMass, Buffalo, Toledo, NIU and any of the other attractive schools in the MAC.

Its Aresco league or bust for the MAC unless Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan want to drop down to FCS and join the MVC.

Honestly are ANY of the Go5 "Better" then the others? Any program could probably take any other right now with the exception of Boise.

If so its in incremental ways. MAC/CUSA/SBC/MWC/'murica12 are all pretty much the same at this point from a perception standpoint.

(03-15-2013 09:23 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:46 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 06:22 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(03-14-2013 10:51 PM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

Its Aresco league or bust for the MAC unless Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan want to drop down to FCS and join the MVC.

Honestly that would probably be a better move for the MAC than adding anyone. Get rid of the deadweight. I would really like to see the MAC enforce more standards on its members for football and basketball. Currently there are none it would seem and this allow EMU to continue fielding the equivalent of a division 5 program that plays in front of 6 people and no one says anything. Any team leaving the MAC for another G5 conference is more about getting away from the EMUs of the world than anything else.

(03-15-2013 09:06 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

An undeserved berth from a MAC title game with 2 teams who beat absolutely nobody worthy of giving them a BCS berth chance. It was a fluke year where the BCS buster beat nobody worth a damn and still got in.

Look my sister went to Kent State but I can say that neither of those teams in that title game were BCS worthy. Kent St lost to Kentucky by 33 and NIU lost to a bad Iowa team in the only OOC game worth a damn on their schedule. Doesn't scream BCS teams to me.

The MAC is a nice conference outside of the power 5. It is better than the Sun Belt now and before the teams left. But I don't see how people can act like they are a better league than CUSA overall.

Yes NIU won the BCS lotto. Big deal...

But if NIU didn't earn a BCS game because of who they beat who did Louisville beat?

Rutgers?...who Kent St beat.
Cincinnati?...who Toledo beat.
USF?...who Ball St beat.

Lost to UCONN...who WMU beat.

NIU defeated all of those teams.



PS I don't see a single post saying MAC > CUSA. The only thing people are saying is that come 2014 the MAC = CUSA but will be spending much less on travel.

Louisville had a bad schedule due to the Big East going downhill (which is why they got out). Anyone with a working eye could see they were worthy at least and they proved it vs Florida.

As I said, I respect the MAC for what it is. Good conference for the small schools. But they aren't world beaters and I don't see that league being better overall than CUSA.

(03-15-2013 10:03 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:23 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:46 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 06:22 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

Its Aresco league or bust for the MAC unless Bowling Green and Eastern Michigan want to drop down to FCS and join the MVC.

Honestly that would probably be a better move for the MAC than adding anyone. Get rid of the deadweight. I would really like to see the MAC enforce more standards on its members for football and basketball. Currently there are none it would seem and this allow EMU to continue fielding the equivalent of a division 5 program that plays in front of 6 people and no one says anything. Any team leaving the MAC for another G5 conference is more about getting away from the EMUs of the world than anything else.

Um did you just start following the MAC or something? I can't see how anyone with knowledge of the confernce could call Bowling Green deadweight. I mean Buffalo and Western Michigan are way below them and so are Akron/Kent St overall.

(03-15-2013 10:27 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Louisville had a bad schedule due to the Big East going downhill (which is why they got out). Anyone with a working eye could see they were worthy at least and they proved it vs Florida.

As I said, I respect the MAC for what it is. Good conference for the small schools. But they aren't world beaters and I don't see that league being better overall than CUSA.

Again I dont see anyone saying that.


Maybe if Tulsa leaves but right now its equal.

(03-15-2013 09:02 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:56 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:45 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  CUSA schools spend 2X to 3X the average MAC school yet which league has garnered a BCS berth?

I'll take the 2011 CUSA result (two teams in the final top 20 and at least one more getting votes) over NIU's little trip to the slaughterhouse. Besides, NIU isn't exactly a typical MAC team. They've parked themselves in the MAC, but they've got less history with the league than Miami, Ohio U, etc

2003 season
Miami ended the season ranked #11
BGSU ended the season ranked #24
NIU ended the season in the top 30 receiving votes.

And there have been plenty of other seasons where CUSA put teams in the final poll. My point was that sending a team to a BCS game is not a valid test of conference supremacy. CUSA is better than the MAC because it has taken teams from the MAC and the reverse has never happened.

I'm being fair here. I call out other USM people when they try to say CUSA is better than the A12. It's not, and never will be. The pecking order is well-known.

(03-15-2013 10:30 AM)HuskieJohn Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 10:27 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Louisville had a bad schedule due to the Big East going downhill (which is why they got out). Anyone with a working eye could see they were worthy at least and they proved it vs Florida.

As I said, I respect the MAC for what it is. Good conference for the small schools. But they aren't world beaters and I don't see that league being better overall than CUSA.

Again I dont see anyone saying that.


Maybe if Tulsa leaves but right now its equal.

I have seen people say that, or at least insinuate it.

I've always thought the MAC was a good example of what USM should avoid. I think NIU would fit well into CUSA, maybe as a football only member.

(03-15-2013 10:28 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 10:03 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:23 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 07:46 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

Um did you just start following the MAC or something? I can't see how anyone with knowledge of the confernce could call Bowling Green deadweight. I mean Buffalo and Western Michigan are way below them and so are Akron/Kent St overall.

Did you just start following the conference? Everyone knows about EMU so not much to say there? BG has had some success but the challenge for them going forward will be from a fiscal standpoiunt. They are already near the back of the pack in coaches pay for both football and basketball within the league. There has been discussion of this on the MAC board and the feeling is that EMU and BG would be the most likely casualties to the league due to funding issues. Certainly this isn't immediate but over time this would be worth watching. I suspect there are teams in other G5 leagues which maybe looking at similar challenges as well, UAB is one that comes to mind. None of this fantasy commissioner stuff goes anywhere if the money isn't there.

UAB doesn't have a funding problem. They have a lack of people who are willing to stand up and say "I'm a UAB Blazers football fan" because they're located right on the corner of Lemming Lane and Bandwagon Boulevard. Will they drop FB? I kind of think they should consider it, but I doubt it happens.

Other than their FB issue, UAB is a solid institution in every respect. UAT is a dusty cow town built around a stadium in comparison.

(03-15-2013 10:27 AM)Ragu Wrote:  Louisville had a bad schedule due to the Big East going downhill (which is why they got out). Anyone with a working eye could see they were worthy at least and they proved it vs Florida.

As I said, I respect the MAC for what it is. Good conference for the small schools. But they aren't world beaters and I don't see that league being better overall than CUSA.

The computer ratings would give the nod to the MAC over the new CUSA in the short term with all the FCS upgrades. There is ODU, Charlotte and UTSA all recent FCS upgrades who've just established football programs at the FBS level.

10 years out will CUSA be marginally stronger than the MAC? I don't know the answer to that.

(03-15-2013 10:47 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 10:28 AM)Ragu Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 10:03 AM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 09:23 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(03-15-2013 08:08 AM)AndreWhere Wrote:  

Um did you just start following the MAC or something? I can't see how anyone with knowledge of the confernce could call Bowling Green deadweight. I mean Buffalo and Western Michigan are way below them and so are Akron/Kent St overall.

Did you just start following the conference? Everyone knows about EMU so not much to say there? BG has had some success but the challenge for them going forward will be from a fiscal standpoiunt. They are already near the back of the pack in coaches pay for both football and basketball within the league. There has been discussion of this on the MAC board and the feeling is that EMU and BG would be the most likely casualties to the league due to funding issues. Certainly this isn't immediate but over time this would be worth watching. I suspect there are teams in other G5 leagues which maybe looking at similar challenges as well, UAB is one that comes to mind. None of this fantasy commissioner stuff goes anywhere if the money isn't there.

EMU is over its head in the MAC (always has been) but has the facilities in the upper half of the league. It would be an institutional decision to move down to FCS in hopes of spurring more winning.

BG is a solid MAC football member but they've got issues with $$$ and have considered dropping athletics down to DII.