Of all the conference shifting madness... I've seen Liberty's name pop up the last few weeks more and more, especially this week obviously.

I never thought much of it, only that I didn't know who the hell they were and that I didn't want them in the league because I've never heard of them.

But after reading the boards the past few days it seems like there have been some underlying comments in posts regarding why people don't like Liberty, is it because of religion? I don't get it. I don't want Liberty in the league, but it has NOTHING to do with them being a Christian school.

Someone please explain the "Liberty hate" to me. Cause I'm clueless on this school.

(03-10-2013 08:17 PM)CajunJuice Wrote:  Someone please explain the "Liberty hate" to me. Cause I'm clueless on this school.

In a word: Garbage.

1
: the quality or state of being free:
a : the power to do as one pleases
b : freedom from physical restraint
c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control
d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges
e : the power of choice
2
a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : privilege
b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
3
: an action going beyond normal limits: as
a : a breach of etiquette or propriety : familiarity
b : risk, chance <took foolish liberties with his health>
c : a violation of rules or a deviation from standard practice
d : a distortion of fact
4
: a short authorized absence from naval duty usually for less than 48 hours

So y'all just don't like them cause they can do what private schools do, like raise money and not be restrained by the State? I mean, it doesn't really bother me that much... I still think no one in the country knows who they are so why should we be worried what they would do in the Sun Belt?

I think for some, its the conservative political activism of their founder Jerry Falwell who is deceased now. For others, it's the belief that they truly don't fit the mold of a Sunbelt school in academics, athletics, or both. For me, I just don't think they sit within the geographic footprint that I want our conference to have.

(03-10-2013 08:25 PM)troy4ever Wrote:  I think for some, its the conservative political activism of their founder Jerry Falwell who is deceased now. For others, it's the belief that they truly don't fit the mold of a Sunbelt school in academics, athletics, or both. For me, I just don't think they sit within the geographic footprint that I want our conference to have.

All of the above.

Plus, they teach pseudoscience. I hate pseudoscience.

(03-10-2013 08:26 PM)mathenis89 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:25 PM)troy4ever Wrote:  I think for some, its the conservative political activism of their founder Jerry Falwell who is deceased now. For others, it's the belief that they truly don't fit the mold of a Sunbelt school in academics, athletics, or both. For me, I just don't think they sit within the geographic footprint that I want our conference to have.

All of the above.

Plus, they teach pseudoscience. I hate pseudoscience.

We teach the same science as uva, duke, etc. Same books they use as well. We do have a creation class as well but its all the same science.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

(03-10-2013 08:46 PM)Liberty22 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:26 PM)mathenis89 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:25 PM)troy4ever Wrote:  I think for some, its the conservative political activism of their founder Jerry Falwell who is deceased now. For others, it's the belief that they truly don't fit the mold of a Sunbelt school in academics, athletics, or both. For me, I just don't think they sit within the geographic footprint that I want our conference to have.

All of the above.

Plus, they teach pseudoscience. I hate pseudoscience.

We teach the same science as uva, duke, etc. Same books they use as well. We do have a creation class as well but its all the same science.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Creation class? You mean Sunday school?

(03-10-2013 08:50 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:46 PM)Liberty22 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:26 PM)mathenis89 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:25 PM)troy4ever Wrote:  I think for some, its the conservative political activism of their founder Jerry Falwell who is deceased now. For others, it's the belief that they truly don't fit the mold of a Sunbelt school in academics, athletics, or both. For me, I just don't think they sit within the geographic footprint that I want our conference to have.

All of the above.

Plus, they teach pseudoscience. I hate pseudoscience.

We teach the same science as uva, duke, etc. Same books they use as well. We do have a creation class as well but its all the same science.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Creation class? You mean Sunday school?

Creation "class".

That's adorable.

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

I see I have struck a chord with the Liberty faithful. I thank you.

(03-10-2013 08:52 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

I see I have struck a chord with the Liberty faithful. I thank you.

It's not fair.

Why do they mention you by name and not me?

RAAAAAGE

(03-10-2013 08:52 PM)mathenis89 Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:52 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

I see I have struck a chord with the Liberty faithful. I thank you.

It's not fair.

Why do they mention you by name and not me?

RAAAAAGE

I got a way with people.

(03-10-2013 08:52 PM)Paul of Troy Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

I see I have struck a chord with the Liberty faithful. I thank you.

I'd also like to mention that your closing statement is completely false. The Georgia Southern and App fans have caught quite a bit of hell from quite a few on here. So, notice that if you will.

The school is an exceptionally poor fit for the Sun Belt.

1) They aren't in the neighborhood
2) They aren't very good at FCS football
3) They are private
4) Their president is the son of the founder. Dynastic succession is unheard of at SBC universities.
5) They discriminate in staff and faculty hiring on the basis of religion and sexual orientation.
6) They discriminate in admissions
7) They engage in political advocacy on a level unheard of by other Div 1 institutions, with the exception of BYU.
8) Their law school dean and professors are engaged in offensive behavior or an extreme sort. Here's a review of the Law School Dean, Matt Staver http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/p...mat-staver . Here's a review of Matt Barber, prominent Liberty Law School Professor http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/p...tt-barber. The rot in the Liberty Counsel (apparently run by the Law School) extends to some extremely ugly accusations, such as support for laws to throw all Gay persons into jail camps for the crime of being Gay, accuasations of existing Liberty personnel being involved in (without correction or condemnation by Liberty University) advocacy of denial of freedoms of petition, protest, religion (yes, even religion), press, assembly, and association for persons/groups that Liberty opposes.
9) Then there's the issue of Liberty constantly wrapping politics/evangelism around everything they do. And they don't seem to be praying with people or for people, but AT them.
10) Liberty has a history of making extremely offensive and inflammatory comments towards various members of the public. This isn't "we oppose Gay marriage". Its much more than that. I don't think supporting legislation currently pending in Nigeria for example that will be used to throw people in jail for up to 10 years for simply witnessing a same sex marriage ceremony in a Gay supportive church is something that a Sun Belt institution should be involved with. http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/02/01/8544

Hope this helps. I'm aware that most supporters of SBC schools tend very conservative and many are evangelical. There's a difference between a very conservative school like Georgia Southern and a school that behaves like Liberty. I have no problem with Georgia Southern being in the SBC. And yes, their most prominent alumni is Dan Cathy. I'm fully aware of that and ultimately do not have a problem with that. Do we really want a school that apparently is okay with its representatives advocating rounding up people and throwing them into jail camps for being Gay? Do we want schools that aren't going to hire the best talent in their Athletic Departments?

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

It WAS sincere and thank you very much for what seems to be the answers. I'll be the first to say that I don't care what is taught at your school in regards to religion, just as the far left believe they have the right discriminate against schools like yours, you also have the right to "discriminate" if you will against certain ways of living, if in fact you are a private institution. I mean, you're not forcing any kids to attend the school, they do so on their own will. I don't see why anything taught at your school would affect anything in the Sun Belt Conference sports arena.

I will say this, congrats on making it to the Big Dance and congrats on some solid baseball wins.... at UL, we have a pretty strong tradition in baseball so we know a thing or two about how tough it is to beat SEC competition.

I'll be honest, I still don't necessarily want to see Liberty added to our conference, but at the same time... I want to get out of this conference because it really seems like a sinking ship.

Without Jerry Falwell, you wouldn't have this kind of a debate. But he's who people think of, for better or worse, when they think of Liberty.

I'd prefer to pass on them personally, but I'm not wildly opposed to their addition. It's sports, not politics or religion.

(03-10-2013 08:58 PM)CajunJuice Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

It WAS sincere and thank you very much for what seems to be the answers. I'll be the first to say that I don't care what is taught at your school in regards to religion, just as the far left believe they have the right discriminate against schools like yours, you also have the right to "discriminate" if you will against certain ways of living, if in fact you are a private institution. I mean, you're not forcing any kids to attend the school, they do so on their own will. I don't see why anything taught at your school would affect anything in the Sun Belt Conference sports arena.

I will say this, congrats on making it to the Big Dance and congrats on some solid baseball wins.... at UL, we have a pretty strong tradition in baseball so we know a thing or two about how tough it is to beat SEC competition.

I'll be honest, I still don't necessarily want to see Liberty added to our conference, but at the same time... I want to get out of this conference because it really seems like a sinking ship.

People back in the day had the right to own slaves too. Didn't make owning slaves morally acceptable.

Same goes for discrimination.

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

Notre Dame hires Gay people. BYU discriminates, and was left out of every conference they tried to join because of it.

I'm sorry but a school that has its prominent professors, with no correction or condemnation by the Liberty admin, running around advocating throwing people in jail for 10 years for the crime of attending a Gay supportive church service or 14 years for being Gay in private isn't really a good fit for a modern conference.

The law refered to in the link, actually was increased to 10 years in prison for witnessing a same sex marriage ceremony. Gay people, apparently with the blessing of Liberty University Law School, are in prison for the crime of existing.

(03-10-2013 09:03 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-10-2013 08:49 PM)Libertygrad01 Wrote:  Your question seems sincere so I'll take a crack at answering. Liberty was founded by the late Jerry Falwell. Fallwell did some great things, but he also said some really dumb things that have alienated people against Liberty. Liberty is a Christian college. We have an honor system called the Liberty Way. It’s given to each student before they decide to attend Liberty. It's fairly strict, but seems to lighten up each year. When I graduated in 1996 there were some fairly crazy rules that have since been done away with. Probably the biggest issue people have with Liberty and especially on this board is Liberty's stance on homosexuality. Like most professing followers of Christ Liberty believes in the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman. Just as Notre Dame and BYU, Liberty will not hire homosexuals. One other sticking point for many is Liberty teaches Creationism or intelligent design. The theory of evolution is also taught, but as a theory. No matter what Paul of Troy or other posters write Liberty would be a great conference partner.
Not to blow our own horn, but just today Liberty moved on the NCAA tourney in BOTH men’s and woman's basketball. We beat Georgia is baseball which is out second win of the season over an SEC school. The other was a win over 5th ranked South Carolina.
Notice something if you will. Appy State and Ga Southern can come on and "pimp" their school on practically every thread, but when a Liberty poster does then the sky is falling.

Notre Dame hires Gay people. BYU discriminates, and was left out of every conference they tried to join because of it.

I'm sorry but a school that has its prominent professors, with no correction or condemnation by the Liberty admin, running around advocating throwing people in jail for 10 years for the crime of attending a Gay supportive church service or 14 years for being Gay in private isn't really a good fit for a modern conference.

The law refered to in the link, actually was increased to 10 years in prison for witnessing a same sex marriage ceremony. Gay people, apparently with the blessing of Liberty University Law School, are in prison for the crime of existing.

Well, golly gee gosh Tom! Ain't fuuutball more important dan all that silly stuff!