It will stop at 14 or 16 tram conferences. The 18-20 team conferences talk is just people blowing smoke and flames out their arses! :moon2:

(02-26-2013 09:45 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:   It will stop at 14 or 16 tram conferences. The 18-20 team conferences talk is just people blowing smoke and flames out their arses! :moon2:

I think the magic number is 16. This way conferences can have entire divisional game days where 8 games 4 in each division.

(02-26-2013 08:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:23 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  The B10 will take as many teams as it takes to make the ACC unstable. The end game has always been ND. It has to be unnerving to be a president of a school like UC, WF, Baylor right now. They could be easily left out depending on how this all goes down.

Even if everyone goes to 16, I don't believe the PAC has to. They are insulated pretty well. Also, having USC and now Oregon will help. There is no hurry for them, they own the west coast.

I love how Cincy thinks they are on the same level as Wake Forest and Baylor right now. WF and Baylor have been members of major conferences for decades- as opposed to johnny come lately Cincy with not even 10 years(and that's if you consider the Old Big East as a major conference).

Georgetown football, woot!

Texas to the SEC?!



I don't see that happening. IMHO, Texas' preferences are:

1. Big XII



2. Independence




3. PAC12


4. Big 10/SEC

(02-26-2013 09:49 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:23 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  The B10 will take as many teams as it takes to make the ACC unstable. The end game has always been ND. It has to be unnerving to be a president of a school like UC, WF, Baylor right now. They could be easily left out depending on how this all goes down.

Even if everyone goes to 16, I don't believe the PAC has to. They are insulated pretty well. Also, having USC and now Oregon will help. There is no hurry for them, they own the west coast.

I love how Cincy thinks they are on the same level as Wake Forest and Baylor right now. WF and Baylor have been members of major conferences for decades- as opposed to johnny come lately Cincy with not even 10 years(and that's if you consider the Old Big East as a major conference).

Georgetown football, woot!

We'll be making more money than you so enjoy the Aresco league...

(02-26-2013 09:44 AM)Big 12 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 09:41 AM)Tallgrass Wrote:  VA, VA Tech, NC, and NCSU to B1G and SEC, B12 expands by four: Louisville, FSU, Clemson, and GaTech.

[b]TRUNCATED ACC:[/b]
Boston College/Syracuse
UConn/Temple
Pitt/Cincy
Wake Forest/Memphis
USF/UCF

FSU will want Miami instead of Lville......as would the networks.

The Big 12 had Lville begging for an invite for a long time, they even had Senators trying to strong-arm people into letting Lville into the Big 12, but they just don't do enough for the networks and would end up costing the league $.

I don't have tv numbers so I don't know what to say. I will say I like Louisville with both strong FB and BB programs, and a perfect travel partner to ISU. I corrected ACC lineup as I forgot about Miami and erred in leaving them out of truncated ACC.

The magic number is 16 teams.
It's not a matter of if but when.
The ACC is doomed, DOOMED I tell ye!

Blah.
Blah.
Blah.

(02-26-2013 09:54 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  The magic number is 16 teams.
It's not a matter of if but when.
The ACC is doomed, DOOMED I tell ye!

Blah.
Blah.
Blah.

I'm not saying anything about teams moving- but 16 to me is a very strong number. Several reasons-
1- the divisional football games.
2- basketball- easy number for conference tournament- either normal 1/16 format or the format the BE has been using.
3- other sports- enough teams that are close enough to make olympic sports scheduling easier

14 to me seems like such a mish mash if you will.

(02-26-2013 09:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 09:49 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:23 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  The B10 will take as many teams as it takes to make the ACC unstable. The end game has always been ND. It has to be unnerving to be a president of a school like UC, WF, Baylor right now. They could be easily left out depending on how this all goes down.

Even if everyone goes to 16, I don't believe the PAC has to. They are insulated pretty well. Also, having USC and now Oregon will help. There is no hurry for them, they own the west coast.

I love how Cincy thinks they are on the same level as Wake Forest and Baylor right now. WF and Baylor have been members of major conferences for decades- as opposed to johnny come lately Cincy with not even 10 years(and that's if you consider the Old Big East as a major conference).

Georgetown football, woot!

We'll be making more money than you so enjoy the Aresco league...

Does it really upset you that UC comes into the Big East and wins more games than everybody else, and we might do the same thing in the ACC.
Or do you just dislike UC fans who post on this board? Maybe you want Gtown to be a real football program?

16 only works if you go to a 10 game conference schedule.

(02-26-2013 10:07 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 09:52 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 09:49 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-26-2013 08:23 AM)bearcat29 Wrote:  The B10 will take as many teams as it takes to make the ACC unstable. The end game has always been ND. It has to be unnerving to be a president of a school like UC, WF, Baylor right now. They could be easily left out depending on how this all goes down.

Even if everyone goes to 16, I don't believe the PAC has to. They are insulated pretty well. Also, having USC and now Oregon will help. There is no hurry for them, they own the west coast.

I love how Cincy thinks they are on the same level as Wake Forest and Baylor right now. WF and Baylor have been members of major conferences for decades- as opposed to johnny come lately Cincy with not even 10 years(and that's if you consider the Old Big East as a major conference).

Georgetown football, woot!

We'll be making more money than you so enjoy the Aresco league...

Does it really upset you that UC comes into the Big East and wins more games than everybody else, and we might do the same thing in the ACC.
Or do you just dislike UC fans who post on this board? Maybe you want Gtown to be a real football program?

Cincy winning more games in the Big East? Did I miss something? Between Syracuse, Louisville, Georgetown, Marquette, etc. I'm fairly certain that Cincy didn't win mroe games than anyone else.

(02-26-2013 10:08 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  16 only works if you go to a 10 game conference schedule.

Not really. 9 game works well with 16. Play 2 teams in other division.

1 thing you kind of get away from with 16 teams I think would be the idea of a permanent crossover opponent. That changes the equation quite a bit.

(02-26-2013 10:08 AM)curtis0620 Wrote:  16 only works if you go to a 10 game conference schedule.

McMurphy said the same thing, if you see the B1G go to 10 conference games then its guaranteed they are expanding.

Anyone who thinks UNC is going to cease being the alpha dog and join the B1G as just another pig at the trough under estimates their arrogance and self worth.

They are as proud of their position in the ACC has Texas is theirs in the BIG 12, Ohio State is theirs in the B1G and Alabama is theirs in the SEC.

There are too many non AQ teams to use as fillers for the Carolina four to panic to the point of abandoning the ACC.

(02-26-2013 10:14 AM)Rabonchild Wrote:  Anyone who thinks UNC is going to cease being the alpha dog and join the B1G as just another pig at the trough under estimates their arrogance and self worth.

They are as proud of their position in the ACC has Texas is theirs in the BIG 12, Ohio State is theirs in the B1G and Alabama is theirs in the SEC.

There are too many non AQ teams to use as fillers for the Carolina four to panic to the point of abandoning the ACC.

To me, the big one to watch would be UVA. Geography if they(and subsequently VT) leave really gets messed up.

(02-26-2013 09:54 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  The magic number is 16 teams.
It's not a matter of if but when.
The ACC is doomed, DOOMED I tell ye!

Blah.
Blah.
Blah.

ACC goes to 16 with UConn and Cincinnati.
Big goes to 16 with Kansas and Missouri.
SEC goses 16 with West Virginia, East Carolina and Oklahoma State.
PAC 12 goes to 16 with Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Kansas State.

Baylor, TCU and Iowa State go to CUSA, Mountin West or New Big East.

There is only 1 scenario where the math works out to 4 x 16 and that would require an extremely precise parsing out of the Big 12 in which the PAC and SEC would have to yield their preferences to make it amicably happen. In other words it's a nearly impossible target.

If the ACC is the one that is parsed there will be too much valuable property left dangling for the Big 10 or SEC to simply stop at 16. They both have, or will have networks, and any school that adds to the bottom line will be considered. So 18, 20, and even 24 are possible within the confines of a 12 game regular season in a new upper tier where only upper tier teams are played.

For those who do not believe that 3 conferences are possible all I have to say to you is that the elimination of that 4th conference in a 3 conference upper tier with 20 schools in each conference means that each of those schools will profit by their network expansions and then on top of that they will receive a little over 2 million more each for all 60 schools simply by eliminating the 4th conference. That's what we call incentive.

Now, I'm not advocating the dissolution of the ACC, Big 12, or any conference. I'm not advocating 20 team conferences. But I am acknowledging that the math simply isn't there for 4 x 16 without major unprecedented collusion. And as long as the Big 12 does not have a network it will not need or want 16 schools.

No matter how much we as rational humans want a neat and tidy setup it isn't likely to happen. In fact if the Big 12 survives (and I think it will, at least for a while) I can assure you we will not have symmetry.

And 64 is not going to prove to be a great number. It is a number that closely matches the number of teams that support their athletic budgets at least to some degree that is competitive with the top programs but that number is going to prove to be ultimately problematic. Why?

It is roughly the number of teams that annually go to bowls. Yeah we have way too many bowls, but my point is that the number represents about 3/4's of the schools that annually expect to have enough success to make a bowl. Without the Wake Forest's, Tulane's, Rice's, and Temple's of the world how are they going to stay happy? A reduced number of teams condensed to be more competitive will only reduce their own success rates by a 1/4 to a 1/3. That's going to piss off alumni, donors, and eventually ad companies who sponsor their games. In order to maintain the winning percentages of the top 64 teams we are going to need another 16 schools to occupy the bottom quarter of the new upper tier. So in reality we are looking at 80 schools to make that happen. But, if we go there the money per team will drop and drop significantly.

So, what I'm saying here is:
1. We are not going to wind up with 4 equally sized and relatively strong conferences.
2. There are problems with competitive expectations if we move to an upper tier of 64 or less.
3. There are problems with projected revenue if we move to an upper tier of 72 - 80.
4. The existing conference models are too diverse to allow for equality.
5. Motivation for conferences of 18 or 20 or more does actually exist for the Big 10, SEC and PAC.
6. Motivation to remain small exists for the Big 12.
7. If it is the ACC that gets raided 4 x 16 doesn't make sense for the Big 10 and SEC and the PAC is limited by geography.
8. An upper tier is still likely and that alone could redraw some boundaries extraneous to conference configuration.
9. While there may be some more resolution it will not be totally resolved for quite sometime to come.
10. The Global economic situation (which is becoming more precarious) is never factored into what could be a peaking sports entertainment market.

If your going with the big 12 doesn't last option, than i could see:

Big- KU, Missouri
Pac- Texas, TTech, OU, Ok state
Sec- WVU
ACC- Uconn, Temple, Cincy...football only to byu to pair with ND

Thus, you got 2 at 16, 1 at 18 and 1 at 14. ND keeps football indy + byu gets a football only invite to the party. Two good leagues develop a notch below with the MWC and NBE, who grab the big 12 leftovers, tcu, baylor, ksu and isu. If you want to be a little more inclusive have the pac 12 jump to 20 with more big 12 school's but i'm sure they would prefer just the 4 pack. If the acc gets ripped apart, i have no idea what will happen.

You talk about 3x20 being inevitable here and yet in another thread you talk about a move that would block the Big Ten from expanding. IF you think they will just fall in line and go to the Northeast for all their expansion then you are wrong. They will sit back with 14 and cozy up with the Big 12 and PAC 12 in blocking any future rules and your lovely SEC will be sitting there overweight and underpaid due to not getting those rule changes.

(02-26-2013 08:32 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I love how Cincy thinks they are on the same level as Wake Forest and Baylor right now. WF and Baylor have been members of major conferences for decades- as opposed to johnny come lately Cincy with not even 10 years(and that's if you consider the Old Big East as a major conference).

That's true, but it leaves out the important fact that conference affiliation only became critical about 15 years ago. Wake Forest's position in particular is total luck of the draw. They are in a major conference simply because UNC took them along for the ride when the ACC was formed.

Baylor at least knew how critical all this would become and fought for Big 12 inclusion. And in its defense, the Bears have been spending a ton of money to stay relevant.

But it isn't accurate to assert that those two schools are somehow intrinsically superior to Cincinnati because they have been affiliated with power conferences for a longer period of time.