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Hornets' Nests
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #1
Hornets' Nests
I have thought about this a lot over the last few months, spending too much time actually, and I predict FSU, Clemson and VT will be among the additions when the SEC goes to 20.

As to FSU and Clemson, there never was a "Gentleman's Agreement", so do not even start. While a team's fans may not want an in-state rival moving up into their conference, state politicians and top academic leaders would never block their addition. See VT to the ACC with the help of UVA as an example.

Now it is true that the SEC already has the Florida and South Carolina markets, these teams are marketable and would provide quality content for all three tiers of the SEC's media deal, and quality content trumps market every time.

Imagine the great television the following just add water instant rivalries would provide:

Hornets’ Nest #1
FSU joins the SEC West where they will play the following geographically neighbors, either annually or semi-annually, depending on how the sub-divisions are drawn up, FSU-AL, FSU-AU, FSU-LSU (another I-10 rivalry), plus Ole Miss, MSU and probably Mizzou. FSU-A&M would be a huge State of Texas vs State of Florida state.

Hornets’ Nest #2
Clemson and Virginia Tech joins the SEC East and regularly plays each other, UGA, SC and TN. Look at a map; UGA-Clemson, UGA-VT, TN-Clemson, TN-VT, and SC-VT would be huge and SC-Clemson would be a conference game. While the gators are not as close geographically when any of the above plays UF it would be a big game.

The SEC could just add water and grow even more money.

Lurker Above
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2013 12:23 AM by Lurker Above.)
02-24-2013 11:17 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:17 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  I have thought about this a lot over the last few months, spending too much time actually, and I predict FSU, Clemson and VT will all be among the SEC additions.

As to FSU and Clemson, there never was a "Gentleman's Agreement", so do not even start. While a team's fans may not want an in-state rival moving up into their conference, state politicians and top academic leaders would never block their addition. See VT to the ACC with the help of UVA as an example.

Now it is true that the SEC already has the Florida and South Carolina markets, these teams are marketable and would provide quality content for all three tiers of the SEC's media deal, and quality content trumps market every time.

Imagine the great television the following just add water instant rivalries would provide:

Hornets’ Nest #1
FSU joins the SEC West where they will play the following geographically neighbors, either annually or semi-annually, depending on how the sub-divisions are drawn up, FSU-AL, FSU-AU, FSU-LSU (another I-10 rivalry), plus Ole Miss, MSU and probably Mizzou. FSU-A&M would be a huge State of Texas vs State of Florida state.

Hornets’ Nest #2
Clemson and Virginia Tech joins the SEC East and regularly plays each other, UGA, SC and TN. Look at a map; UGA-Clemson, UGA-VT, TN-Clemson, TN-VT, and SC-VT would be huge and SC-Clemson would be a conference game. While the gators are not as close geographically when any of the above plays UF it would be a big game.

The SEC could just add water and grow even more money.

Lurker Above

Not entirely.
UVA did indeed make every effort to block Virginia Tech from the ACC.
It was, in fact, action by the legislature of the Commonwealth of Va, that forced UVA to "lobby strongly" for VT
02-24-2013 11:32 PM
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Lurker Above Offline
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RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:32 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 11:17 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  I have thought about this a lot over the last few months, spending too much time actually, and I predict FSU, Clemson and VT will all be among the SEC additions.

As to FSU and Clemson, there never was a "Gentleman's Agreement", so do not even start. While a team's fans may not want an in-state rival moving up into their conference, state politicians and top academic leaders would never block their addition. See VT to the ACC with the help of UVA as an example.

That was my point. It happened.
Now it is true that the SEC already has the Florida and South Carolina markets, these teams are marketable and would provide quality content for all three tiers of the SEC's media deal, and quality content trumps market every time.

Imagine the great television the following just add water instant rivalries would provide:

Hornets’ Nest #1
FSU joins the SEC West where they will play the following geographically neighbors, either annually or semi-annually, depending on how the sub-divisions are drawn up, FSU-AL, FSU-AU, FSU-LSU (another I-10 rivalry), plus Ole Miss, MSU and probably Mizzou. FSU-A&M would be a huge State of Texas vs State of Florida state.

Hornets’ Nest #2
Clemson and Virginia Tech joins the SEC East and regularly plays each other, UGA, SC and TN. Look at a map; UGA-Clemson, UGA-VT, TN-Clemson, TN-VT, and SC-VT would be huge and SC-Clemson would be a conference game. While the gators are not as close geographically when any of the above plays UF it would be a big game.

The SEC could just add water and grow even more money.

Lurker Above

Not entirely.
UVA did indeed make every effort to block Virginia Tech from the ACC.
It was, in fact, action by the legislature of the Commonwealth of Va, that forced UVA to "lobby strongly" for VT
02-24-2013 11:34 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Hornets' Nests
VT: sure

FSU/Clemson? Not unless we get VT but NCSU says no and a #16 is needed immediately ala Mizzou.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013 11:40 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-24-2013 11:40 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Hornets' Nests
The SEC is probably far more interested in Va and NC, and specifically the #27 RDU television market; than it is to add to it's already current presence in Florida and South Carolina.
Currently, and in the foreseeable future, VT owns the Commonwealth of Virginia media. UVA is now an afterthought.

Therefore, I suspect that NC State and VT would be the primary targets of SEC expansion.

Remember, last year Chris Fowler (FWIW) said; "The SEC did not expand in order to enhance it's football product, but to increase it's television footprint."

With college football popularity moving South, particularly out of the Northeast; the Hokies and the Wolfpack would seem to be the obvious choices for SEC expansion.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2013 11:53 PM by ODUalum78.)
02-24-2013 11:47 PM
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:47 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  The SEC is probably far more interested in Va and NC, and specifically the #27 RDU television market; than to add to it's already current presence in Florida and South Carolina.
Currently, and in the foreseeable future, VT owns the Commonwealth of Virginia. UVA is now an afterthought.

Therefore, I suspect that NC State and VT would be the primary targets of SEC expansion.

Remember, Chris Fowler (FWIW) said; "The SEC did not expand in order to enhance it's football product, but to increase it's television footprint."

With college football popularity moving South, particularly out of the Northeast; the Hokies and the Wolfpack would seem to be the obvious choices for SEC expansion.

That part of a SEC expansion would include either a UNC/Duke combo or NCS is almost a given. So is VT. My post was about the other schools that should comprise a SEC 20. VT was mentioned with Clemson to highlight a second vortex of quality schools practically on top of one another.
02-24-2013 11:55 PM
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RE: Hornets' Nests
While I could see a Florida State addition, I don't ever see Clemson as part of the SEC. Although I applaud the Missouri invitation, many SEC fans thought FSU made more sense. They were not taking into consideration markets and were making their preference based on football and baseball tradition. Clemson may have some positives, but there are negatives and I believe they are several rungs down the pecking order. Before Clemson would be offered membership, I think there are as many as a dozen other schools that would be invited, including Va. Tech, UNC, NCSU, West Virginia, Duke and FSU.
02-24-2013 11:59 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:55 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 11:47 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  The SEC is probably far more interested in Va and NC, and specifically the #27 RDU television market; than to add to it's already current presence in Florida and South Carolina.
Currently, and in the foreseeable future, VT owns the Commonwealth of Virginia. UVA is now an afterthought.

Therefore, I suspect that NC State and VT would be the primary targets of SEC expansion.

Remember, Chris Fowler (FWIW) said; "The SEC did not expand in order to enhance it's football product, but to increase it's television footprint."

With college football popularity moving South, particularly out of the Northeast; the Hokies and the Wolfpack would seem to be the obvious choices for SEC expansion.

That part of a SEC expansion would include either a UNC/Duke combo or NCS is almost a given. So is VT. My post was about the other schools that should comprise a SEC 20. VT was mentioned with Clemson to highlight a second vortex of quality schools practically on top of one another.

Ok I see what you mean.
That makes sense If the SEC expands for the sake of expansion.

It's just my opinion, but I see the SEC as after media markets. The Gators already supply Florida the state, and Tallahassee (FSU) as a stand alone market is a small #105.

Clemson, on the other hand, is a little more enticing with it's #37 market.
NC St. and UNC should both be on the table. Duke is less likely as a private which will never make a substantial commitment to football.

As far as privates go, Miami may be the most attractive IF the SEC goes after another Florida school. Even though they don't even fill their stadium, the Miami market is such that there is likely more money to be made from the fan who stays home and watches on TV than if that same fan went to the game.

Assuming that the SEC is only after new media markets, the most likely candidates are NC St/UNC and VT.

I don't think the SEC will expand just for the sake of expanding. but if they do, look for Clemson and/or Miami.
FSU and Duke not so much.

The B1G has it's network -for now; but in the long term, the geography of that conference is going to be a detriment in football, as that region continues to lose recruits and fans to warmer climates.
I think that you will see FSU, Clemson, GT, UVA/VT, UNC/NC State, and Miami in the Big 12 discussions down the road, as it targets the SEC, market for market.

All of this is of course just my opinion, as I have no inside info at all. 04-chairshot
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2013 10:14 PM by ODUalum78.)
02-25-2013 12:44 AM
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NJRedMan Offline
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RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:59 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  While I could see a Florida State addition, I don't ever see Clemson as part of the SEC. Although I applaud the Missouri invitation, many SEC fans thought FSU made more sense. They were not taking into consideration markets and were making their preference based on football and baseball tradition. Clemson may have some positives, but there are negatives and I believe they are several rungs down the pecking order. Before Clemson would be offered membership, I think there are as many as a dozen other schools that would be invited, including Va. Tech, UNC, NCSU, West Virginia, Duke and FSU.

I agree 100%. If the B1G goes to 18 the SEC can very well add VT, NC St, WVU and FSU.

Honestly after the Big 3 (B1G, SEC and Pac-12) gets done expanding the ACC could stand to lose as many as 9 members (including Maryland).
02-25-2013 01:15 AM
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Lurker Above Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-24-2013 11:59 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  While I could see a Florida State addition, I don't ever see Clemson as part of the SEC. Although I applaud the Missouri invitation, many SEC fans thought FSU made more sense. They were not taking into consideration markets and were making their preference based on football and baseball tradition. Clemson may have some positives, but there are negatives and I believe they are several rungs down the pecking order. Before Clemson would be offered membership, I think there are as many as a dozen other schools that would be invited, including Va. Tech, UNC, NCSU, West Virginia, Duke and FSU.

No love for Clemson? While it pains my Bulldawg soul to compliment the orange and purple tigers, they are a proud program that has an 85k capacity stadium, a 1981 national football championship, a SEC football culture, and a USNWR ranking inside the top 75.

I predict Clemson would be picked before WV, and since it is very unlikely all three North Carolina schools would be invited to one conference, if the tigers are competing with the six schools you listed they get an invite.

IMO, if Clemson is not invited that means OU will be.

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02-25-2013 10:04 PM
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RE: Hornets' Nests
(02-25-2013 10:04 PM)Lurker Above Wrote:  
(02-24-2013 11:59 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  While I could see a Florida State addition, I don't ever see Clemson as part of the SEC. Although I applaud the Missouri invitation, many SEC fans thought FSU made more sense. They were not taking into consideration markets and were making their preference based on football and baseball tradition. Clemson may have some positives, but there are negatives and I believe they are several rungs down the pecking order. Before Clemson would be offered membership, I think there are as many as a dozen other schools that would be invited, including Va. Tech, UNC, NCSU, West Virginia, Duke and FSU.

No love for Clemson? While it pains my Bulldawg soul to compliment the orange and purple tigers, they are a proud program that has an 85k capacity stadium, a 1981 national football championship, a SEC football culture, and a USNWR ranking inside the top 75.

I predict Clemson would be picked before WV, and since it is very unlikely all three North Carolina schools would be invited to one conference, if the tigers are competing with the six schools you listed they get an invite.

IMO, if Clemson is not invited that means OU will be.
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Lurker Above

Don't think OU will becoming....they previuosly had an opportunity to join the SEC and chose not to.
02-26-2013 12:01 AM
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