(02-11-2013 09:35 AM)wkuengineer Wrote:  I think Rubit is the best player, and it is not even close.

I agree.

(02-11-2013 11:08 AM)untgeorge Wrote:  

(02-09-2013 09:22 AM)SpaceRaider Wrote:  I suspect Marcos Knight will be MT's only first team selection, but believe three or four more Raiders would be excellent candidates if they were on other teams where there is a lack of quality bench play, which cuts MT players ability to build individual eye-popping stats due to sharing minutes.

I think Gant of FAU, Rubit of USA are sure bets for first team. Long (UL) and Oletayo (ULM) are others. Who am I overlooking?

Player of the Year? Can't see anyone else but Knight here

Coach of the Year? Kermit, with out a doubt

I don't see anyone from UNT on 1st or 2nd team, unless that position is earned by pre-season press clippings. I guess Jordan Williams has a shot at 2nd team if he finishes strong, is 7th leading scorer in the conf, considering conf games only. We could have a couple on honorable mention, if there is such a thing, none of which would be named Tony.

Alexis Hyder could be a lock for Freshman of the Year on the women's side, if there still is such an award. Leads freshmen in scoring and rebounding, and is only freshman to have been named player of the week. Could have a shot at 2nd team all conference.

Knight had a good game in Denton but I like Gant as player of the year, Kermit as coach.

I think Kermit as coach is a given.

Love it when MT plays against Rubit. He takes most of the shots and misses 2/3 of 'em.

Helps his rebounding total, though.

(02-11-2013 12:36 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Love it when MT plays against Rubit. He takes most of the shots and misses 2/3 of 'em.

Helps his rebounding total, though.

Love it when someone tries to make a jab only to have it come back and hit them in the face. Rubit only had 8 shots. He made 3 of them. Knight had 7 shots. He made 2 of them. Rubit only took one shot more than Knight. Does that mean Knight took most of MTSU's shots too? (By the way the answer is no as both team took 54 shots apiece). Rubit made slightly over 2/3 of his shots (37.5%). Knight made below 2/3 (28.57%). So I'm not sure I understand the smack here as your player comes out on the losing end on this argument.

For those wondering...

USA vs MTSU -- January 5, 2013

FG %
Rubit 3-8(37.5%)
Knight 2-7(28.57%)

FT %
Rubit 4-7(57.14%)
Knight 2-4 (50%)

Rebounds
Rubit 14
Knight 7

Assists
Rubit 3
Knight 2

Blocks
Knight 2
Rubit 0

Steals
Rubit 1
Knight 0

(02-11-2013 01:58 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 12:36 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Love it when MT plays against Rubit. He takes most of the shots and misses 2/3 of 'em.

Helps his rebounding total, though.

Love it when someone tries to make a jab only to have it come back and hit them in the face. Rubit only had 8 shots. He made 3 of them. Knight had 7 shots. He made 2 of them. Rubit only took one shot more than Knight. Does that mean Knight took most of MTSU's shots too? (By the way the answer is no as both team took 54 shots apiece). Rubit made slightly over 2/3 of his shots (37.5%). Knight made below 2/3 (28.57%). So I'm not sure I understand the smack here as your player comes out on the losing end on this argument.

For those wondering...

USA vs MTSU -- January 5, 2013

FG %
Rubit 3-8(37.5%)
Knight 2-7(28.57%)

FT %
Rubit 4-7(57.14%)
Knight 2-4 (50%)

Rebounds
Rubit 14
Knight 7

Assists
Rubit 3
Knight 2

Blocks
Knight 2
Rubit 0

Steals
Rubit 1
Knight 0

Oh, mista, puhlease don't 'trow me in dat brier patch.

I still luvs playing against Rubit.

2012-- 6-for-23 in two games with 7 turnovers.

Two beatdowns.

Never said any 'ting 'bout Knight, but I'd rather have Marcos on my team than Rubit. Proof is in the puddin'.

(02-11-2013 02:23 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Oh, mista, puhlease don't 'trow me in dat brier patch.

I still luvs playing against Rubit.

2012-- 6-for-23 in two games with 7 turnovers.

Two beatdowns.

Never said any 'ting 'bout Knight, but I'd rather have Marcos on my team than Rubit. Proof is in the puddin'.

My god. So many fallacies.

Obviously both fan bases are biased, but so far the non-MTSU/USA fans are favoring Rubit.
With good reason - he's better.

(02-11-2013 03:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  Obviously both fan bases are biased, but so far the non-MTSU/USA fans are favoring Rubit.
With good reason - he's better.

If you are saying he is better based on you have watched both players play multiple games this year and believe Rubit has more talent then that is fair and we will disagree, but if you are going off numbers than that is a skewed way to look at things because of the fact we don't have to rely only on Marcos to be successful. We have at least 7 players that would start at any belt school therefore Marcos doesn't have to be the "star". However, when he decides to take over a game he is down right nasty and can score from anywhere. When you're winning by 50 though he doesn't have to.

(02-11-2013 03:10 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 02:23 PM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Oh, mista, puhlease don't 'trow me in dat brier patch.

I still luvs playing against Rubit.

2012-- 6-for-23 in two games with 7 turnovers.

Two beatdowns.

Never said any 'ting 'bout Knight, but I'd rather have Marcos on my team than Rubit. Proof is in the puddin'.

My god. So many fallacies.

For example?

Look, we can debate all day. Point is Rubit has better numbers. MTSU fans claim it's because Rubit has more minutes. But playing a few more minutes per game has nothing to do with the %. And even though Rubit has a higher FG% than Knight, one stat that jumps out is number of times the players have been fouled.

Per minute (to take Rubit's extra minutes out of the equation) Knight averages getting fouled .1576 times. Rubit averages getting fouled .3708 times per minute. That is a huge difference. To put this another way, Knight is getting fouled on 29% of his shots. Rubit is getting fouled on 39% of his shots.

Here are other stats (per minute) so that time is taken out of the equation:
Points:
Rubit - .8619
Knight - .4827

Offensive Rebounds:
Rubit - .1992
Knight - .0665

Defensive Rebounds:
Rubit - .2820
Knight - .1674

Total Rebounds:
Rubit - .4812
Knight - .2339

Assists:
Knight - .1157
Rubit - .0512

Turnovers:
Knight - .0788
Rubit - .1065

Blocks:
Rubit - .0631
Knight - .0221

Steals:
Knight - .0394
Rubit - .0276

Rubit > Knight

EDIT: The stats are conference-only stats.

I've never heard of a player winning an award because of how many times they're fouled, that's just dumb. And you missed the point, mine at least. It isn't about him playing less time and having lower numbers it is him not needing to be "the guy" because of the talent that surrounds him.

(02-11-2013 04:48 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  I've never heard of a player winning an award because of how many times they're fouled, that's just dumb. And you missed the point, mine at least. It isn't about him playing less time and having lower numbers it is him not needing to be "the guy" because of the talent that surrounds him.

When you are double-teamed on almost every possession (because he doesn't have the quality depth around him that you are talking about) it makes a huge difference. That was my point. For Rubit to have better numbers despite the fact that he is double and sometimes triple-teamed speaks volumes for Rubit.

This discussion is going nowhere.

(02-11-2013 05:00 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  This discussion is going nowhere.

Quite the contrary.
I think it's interesting.

(02-11-2013 04:07 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 03:36 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  Obviously both fan bases are biased, but so far the non-MTSU/USA fans are favoring Rubit.
With good reason - he's better.

If you are saying he is better based on you have watched both players play multiple games this year and believe Rubit has more talent then that is fair and we will disagree, but if you are going off numbers than that is a skewed way to look at things because of the fact we don't have to rely only on Marcos to be successful. We have at least 7 players that would start at any belt school therefore Marcos doesn't have to be the "star". However, when he decides to take over a game he is down right nasty and can score from anywhere. When you're winning by 50 though he doesn't have to.

I've obviously seen Rubit more, as you have seen Knight more, but my opinion is based on seeing them perform with my own eyes as well as the numbers.

(02-11-2013 04:59 PM)SkullyMaroo Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 04:48 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  I've never heard of a player winning an award because of how many times they're fouled, that's just dumb. And you missed the point, mine at least. It isn't about him playing less time and having lower numbers it is him not needing to be "the guy" because of the talent that surrounds him.

When you are double-teamed on almost every possession (because he doesn't have the quality depth around him that you are talking about) it makes a huge difference. That was my point. For Rubit to have better numbers despite the fact that he is double and sometimes triple-teamed speaks volumes for Rubit.

I doubt Knight is such the extreme focus of opposing defenses as Rubit is, as the fouls show.
And that doesn't even take into account the huge volume of times he is fouled but it isn't called because the refs don't want to appear to be micro-managing the game. Defenses know this and take advantage.

(02-11-2013 05:01 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 05:00 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  This discussion is going nowhere.

Quite the contrary.
I think it's interesting.

Both sides seem to have an endless supply of arguments as to why their guy is better...it's getting rather stale I'd say especially when you consider all parties involved will ultimately come away with the exact same opinion they began with.

I guess the real question is how they decide it? In the past has it been more the best player on the best team or the person with the best numbers?

(02-11-2013 05:11 PM)Blueraidersig Wrote:  I guess the real question is how they decide it? In the past has it been more the best player on the best team or the person with the best numbers?

I think they have just tried to identify the best overall player, but certainly the number of wins his team has will always be a factor.

(02-11-2013 05:06 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 05:01 PM)AtlantaJag Wrote:  

(02-11-2013 05:00 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  This discussion is going nowhere.

Quite the contrary.
I think it's interesting.

Both sides seem to have an endless supply of arguments as to why their guy is better...it's getting rather stale I'd say especially when you consider all parties involved will ultimately come away with the exact same opinion they began with.

Just like threads about whether Ga State should be invited, if MTSU was screwed by Karl Benson, etc. It'll be news the first time a message board thread ends with somebody changing their opinion.