Louisville made 15 million in profits last year for hoops, the most of any school, so hoops can generate big bucks as well.

Quote:- Unlike football with it's all-day event status and mostly weekend schedule, basketball has many games on weeknights and often several games close together. Therefore programs in larger metropolitan areas often have more regular fan support or media attention. Pitt has averaged better than 10k per game since the Pete opened, roughly 2-4k more than WVU in that same span. Obviously success has a lot to do with it, but I think Pitt will also join the ranks of Cincy and Louisville as a program able to market itself to the general basketball fans in the area. Tapping into a pro-style fan base, if you will, wherein they can reach a larger number of people looking for something to do, even if they're not affiliated with the school. Especially if the arena is off-campus or a metro attraction for other events that can cross-promote the team.

- On average, basketball's deepest pool of fans and recruits come from urbanized areas, or at least places with the opportunity for a lot of rec league and pick-up play. Often these recruits will want that environment for their choice of school, if available: Coach Hewitt plays that card a lot at GT.

- WVU isn't intending to dispense with the football school image anytime soon, and unless Wannstedt really revs up the Panther program I don't know that the Panthers will ever be able to carry the same luster. Thus, from my perspective, the average basketball player would feel a little more cachet at Pitt than at WVU, where the focus will ever be on the gridiron.

As I said, these are generalozations and surely WVU's current cage success is fully in the spotlight. At least, when folks aren't reminiscing about the Sugar Bowl...

Pitt is not a perennial blue-chip basketball program and in terms of program success it may be no better than WVU. But it's hard to look at the other major programs within the BE, which WVU is competing against, and not feel that Pitt at least has the same trappings and urban vibe that Louisville, Cincy, UConn, SJU, Nova and others have. That environment is part of the reason the BE is different and special when it comes to basketball, isn't it.

That's all I'm saying. And I say this while enjoying the Mounaineers success, having them shake up the norm. You know I'll be praying they pound UConn something fierce!

-- I agree with about everything that you have said. I am not sure people realize how farflung WVUs fan base is. On football saturdays you have fans driving 100s of miles from all over the state to be at Mountaineer Field. So no, we probably won't be able to compete with Pitt night in and night out in bball attendance as long as Pitt is winning. However, if you look at Pitt's bball attendnace before the Pete was built and during losing seasons and I think you will see the two schools being about even or WVU being ahead. The point I was trying to make above is that traditionall WVU has put a much better product on the bball floor then Pitt. Especially when the two schools were in the same league.

-- WVU is very much an oddball in this league. Can't argue that we are a football schools first. An example of that realy hit home for me the other day when I was talking to a few UL posters about exanding Papa Johns staduim. The Cardinal fans told me that it would happen eventually but ULs administration was much more concerned with building the new bball areana first. Basketball would never take the priority over football at WVU. Like I have it said before, in many ways WVU is the 13th SEC school or the SEC school that just happened to be a couple 100 miles too far north. The priorites of our athletic department are in line with the SEC (even to the point of accepting non qualifers ;-) ), the academics of the University is more in line with the SEC, the rural fan base/rural state etc.


Jackson

bcat80 Wrote:How about an Big East/ACC challenge instead of the Big 10/ACC challenge!

There used to be one. They got tired of being beaten so they moved on to a conference they could dominate.

Jackson1011 Wrote:Like I have it said before, in many ways WVU is the 13th SEC school or the SEC school that just happened to be a couple 100 miles too far north. The priorites of our athletic department are in line with the SEC (even to the point of accepting non qualifers ;-) ), the academics of the University is more in line with the SEC, the rural fan base/rural state etc.

I was never a big fan of joining the SEC. The football departments may be more aligned but otherwise I think we would be out of place. Most schools would be farther away then our current conference. WV is really not a southern state. I would fear that we would end up in a situation like Boston College. I"m happy right where we are at with traditional and new rivals.

BTW. WVU will do just fine with the new entry standards if Coach Rod is as good a coach as I think he is and WVU has another great year or two. WVU will be able to put some of these guys on the back burner until they do qualify. You'll see more prep school kids.

Quote: was never a big fan of joining the SEC. The football departments may be more aligned but otherwise I think we would be out of place. Most schools would be farther away then our current conference.WV is really not a southern state. I would fear that we would end up in a situation like Boston College"

-- Your location in WV has a large effect on whether you conisder it to be northern or southern. You certainly are not in the south if you live in Wheeling. You certainly are not in the north if you live in Bluefield. I would rather just call it Appalchain. WVU in the SEC would be in a similar geographic situation as Penn St is in the Big 10. Of course PSU/Ohio St makes sense just as Kentucky playing WVU makes sense. However Iowa/PSU and Arkansas/WVU not so much

Quote:I"m happy right where we are at with traditional and new rivals.

-- Trouble is there aren't many of our traditional rivals left around. Penn St, Virginia Tech and Boston College are long gone. However, with all that being said WVU chances of making into the SEC are slim and none. We had our bags packed once already and they called South Carolina instead (still have trouble understanding that one). I guess we will have to make due with being the rednecks in a urban league

Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:However, with all that being said WVU chances of making into the SEC are slim and none. We had our bags packed once already and they called South Carolina instead (still have trouble understanding that one)

Never underesitmate the power of stupid people in large numbers.... or try to understand their actions. ;-)

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote: was never a big fan of joining the SEC. The football departments may be more aligned but otherwise I think we would be out of place. Most schools would be farther away then our current conference.WV is really not a southern state. I would fear that we would end up in a situation like Boston College"

-- Your location in WV has a large effect on whether you conisder it to be northern or southern. You certainly are not in the south if you live in Wheeling. You certainly are not in the north if you live in Bluefield. I would rather just call it Appalchain. WVU in the SEC would be in a similar geographic situation as Penn St is in the Big 10. Of course PSU/Ohio St makes sense just as Kentucky playing WVU makes sense. However Iowa/PSU and Arkansas/WVU not so much

Quote:I"m happy right where we are at with traditional and new rivals.

-- Trouble is there aren't many of our traditional rivals left around. Penn St, Virginia Tech and Boston College are long gone. However, with all that being said WVU chances of making into the SEC are slim and none. We had our bags packed once already and they called South Carolina instead (still have trouble understanding that one). I guess we will have to make due with being the rednecks in a urban league

Jackson

From reading your posts Jackson, it sounds as if you would rather be in the SEC.

I must admit that I am ecstatic that SU stayed in the BE. This league is starting to make a move towards respectability.

Dont forget that WV still has its biggest rival in Pitt, as well as Cuse. I think Louisville/WV will become huge. Louisville/Cincy will be a big deal too. i have a good feeling about this league and the programs that are apart of it.

Quote:From reading your posts Jackson, it sounds as if you would rather be in the SEC.

I must admit that I am ecstatic that SU stayed in the BE. This league is starting to make a move towards respectability.

Dont forget that WV still has its biggest rival in Pitt, as well as Cuse. I think Louisville/WV will become huge. Louisville/Cincy will be a big deal too. i have a good feeling about this league and the programs that are apart of it.

-- Given time to gell/split...the current BE football schools will be fine on the gridiron

-- If I had my pick...I would want West Virginia to be an the Eastern league...the trick is the Eastern league would have to include Penn St, BC, and/or Virginia Tech/Maryland...I think that would be the ideal situation for WVU

-- I haven't seen enough of the SEC to know if I want to be apart of them or not....we do have upcoming series with Mississippi State and Auburn. Also rumors persist that WVU is really trying to restart the Kentucky football series. Maybe I will be a better judge of things after a few trips south to watch the Mounties. However, from my point of view it is kind of sad to look around and see no other school in the league that is like WVU. The loss of Virginia Tech really hurt in that regard.

-- As Gunner pointed out...bball is bigger then football at almost every BE school (Pitt is still an exception, not ready to give him that one yet). From what I have been told, there were almost more WVU fans when we were at UC then Bearcat fans. When WVU played @ Rutgers, you could hear the let's go Mountaineers chear at times during the game as if it were a home game. The other fans of the league just don't have the same taste for football. I guess that's what bothers me. East Carolina brings more football fans to Morgantown then anyone in our league does with the exception of UL and Pitt. I guess I just want more schools like us (rural, football oriented fan base that travels), which is one reason why I favor ECU to join us in the future

Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:Also rumors persist that WVU is really trying to restart the Kentucky football series.
Jackson

Good luck trying to get that going! UK recently agreed with IU to drop their longstanding September series because both wanted a guaranteed win against a MAC team at home. That series is over, even though they have played every year since 1987. It doesn't even make sense for UK, because despite how bad the Wildcats are, they are 9-2 against the Hoosiers since 1995. I mean really, how pathetic is your program when you are in a BCS league and you have to drop IU so you can assure yourself a win every year (or vice versa)?

UK has filled up their schedule with I-AA's, Temple, 1 or 2 Sun Belt's, and multiple MAC schools from 2006-2009. In fact, I don't think the Wildcats have a schedule opening until 2009 at the earliest. The best is that they went for one of those "bodybag" games in 2004 and lost to Ohio at home so hopefully that will happen once or twice again.

One might think I am exagerrating about how bad UK's non-conference schedule is since they are UofL's prime rival, but consider that besides UofL every year, UK does not have another game scheduled for the rest of the decade against another non-SEC BCS school

CollegeCard Wrote:... but consider that besides UofL every year, UK does not have another game scheduled for the rest of the decade against another non-SEC BCS school

I won't blame UK for doing this on a temporary basis, after all they know they're going to face Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South Carolina, Ole Miss and Louisville every year. Given the state of their program they need some wins and home games to rebuild some faith, if thats possible. Now, if after a few years of winning most of those games they fail to improve their scheduling then I'd be picky about it.

Plus I imagine that Indiana was dropped in part because Louisville is now that much more a high profile opponent. There aren't too many (any?) BCS teams that pursue 2 out of conference rivalries on an annual basis. The last I can think of was FSU, which didn't like it so much they pushed for their conference to adopt on of their rivals. UGA and Clemson only meet once in a blue moon. Ditto GT-Auburn.

Jackson1011 Wrote:-- If I had my pick...I would want West Virginia to be an the Eastern league...the trick is the Eastern league would have to include Penn St, BC, and/or Virginia Tech/Maryland...I think that would be the ideal situation for WVU

Don't worry too much. Apart from the Ivy league I don't think anyone is perfectly happy with their conference. I could think of all sorts of dream scenarios for my ACC but could also find faults in each one. (Swap PSU for BC = even less attractive basketball and Duke fans PO'd about all the large state schools).

I do think WVU is being caught in the middle, sadly. Culturally and geographically it's far enough on the fringe that both the SEC and now the ACC have turned their eyes elsewhere. You shouldn't have to lose both the Maryland and VT rivalries, and I'm appalled that appears to be the case. But at least you've established relations with most of the current BE members. Had WVU joined the SEC then the risk is being "too northern" and smalll enough to risk ending up the eastern division's version of Ole Miss or MSU. In the ACC it'd always be "that team from the other side of Appalachia." (I like referring to Miami as North Cuba U, but that's another story ;-) )

All these people wondering whether WVU would rather have a national title in football or basketball don't know much about West Virginians. In a state where there are few jobs, people, or opportunities, any national title is going to reverberate through the corridors of time as one of the greatest moments in the history of the state. West Virginia has a proud tradition in many sports, several of them becoming national champions (WVU's rifle tradition), but football and basketball are passions that run deep.

The model for the NBA logo is a WVU alumnus, as is the only Super Bowl MVP from a losing team. West Virginia holds more hall of fame members per capita (by population percentage) than any state in the nation. I'd love to see the basketball and football teams win championships. West Virginia holds the most NCAA victories in basketball and football of teams that have not won a national championship. It would be cause for a statewide holiday, and celebrations that would last a lifetime in the memories of faithful fans.

Jackson1011 Wrote:-- Your location in WV has a large effect on whether you conisder it to be northern or southern. You certainly are not in the south if you live in Wheeling. You certainly are not in the north if you live in Bluefield. I would rather just call it Appalchain. WVU in the SEC would be in a similar geographic situation as Penn St is in the Big 10. Of course PSU/Ohio St makes sense just as Kentucky playing WVU makes sense. However Iowa/PSU and Arkansas/WVU not so much

I suppose that is true. As someone from the northern part of the state I can relate closer to the PA, Midwest/Big Ten areas then the SEC areas. I'm sure the opposite is true for someone from Bluefield. This might lead me to believe that adding a team like Memphis or East Carolina to the BE might be the best addition to give a balanced schedule to the whole state of WV. Of course this is all just theoretical and doesn't reflect the views of other BE fans.

Quote:I do think WVU is being caught in the middle, sadly. Culturally and geographically it's far enough on the fringe that both the SEC and now the ACC have turned their eyes elsewhere. You shouldn't have to lose both the Maryland and VT rivalries, and I'm appalled that appears to be the case. But at least you've established relations with most of the current BE members. Had WVU joined the SEC then the risk is being "too northern" and smalll enough to risk ending up the eastern division's version of Ole Miss or MSU. In the ACC it'd always be "that team from the other side of Appalachia." (I like referring to Miami as North Cuba U, but that's another story )

-- Exactly right...You've outlined perfectly why WVU wasn't included in the ACC when the league formed (despite our frantic efforts to try to jump on board)

-- As for being in the NBE....WVU in some ways is in better of in football position then say...Syracuse....Both schools lost a major rival in the ACC raid...but WVU has always played UC and UL here and there...Like I said above...I really jope the league finds a way to get East Carolina in. They are a traditional game for the Mountaineers and have a fan base that is very similar to ours. TV markets aren't everything ;-)

Jackson

Jackson1011 Wrote:TV markets aren't everything ;-)

They most certainly are not.

Miss St?
Wash St?
4 teams in NC?

'tis strange how some things have evolved.

GunnerFan Wrote:

Jackson1011 Wrote:TV markets aren't everything ;-)

They most certainly are not.

Miss St?
Wash St?
4 teams in NC?

'tis strange how some things have evolved.

It's also strange how some haven't. TV still drives the market in scheduling Big East basketball, especially if you listen to the coaches in Connecticutt and Syracuse complaining. But TV won't drive the Big East football market, that's for sure, unless they drive it away.