South Dakota State went to #16 New Mexico tonight and won 75-70. I think it's easy to think of the Valley as just a Basketball Conf. and look for some additions like SLU, UIC, Belmont, UW-Milw. But if the Conf. was ever trying to do something daring and push the envelope with football I think SDSU and NDSU as full members wouldn't be the worst thing ever if CU leaves.

Just depends what your trying to be. If Wichita would ever add their football program again you would have 8 of the 12 members (9 if Drake got out of the Pioneer league) playing football and basketball which would be intriguing to possibly moving the whole conference FBS. Bradley, Evansville, and Drake would be the 3 schools along with let's say UIC in this scenario that would be making it hard on the Conf. because they want nothing to do with football.

Lets say eventually BU and Evansville leave, Drake decides to start ponying up scholies to be in MVCF, and if you add UW-Milw that has had football before and has a pretty good club football team instead of UIC you have this.

UPPER
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Northern Iowa
Drake
UW-Milwaukee

LOWER
Illinois State
Indiana State
Southern Illinois
Missouri State
Wichita State

You could also add South Dakota to the Upper and Western Ill to the Lower if you thought they brought anything to basketball, which is probably questionable. That would get you to 12 teams instead of just 10.

Not saying I want this just trying to do a little out of the box thinking at how the MVC could solidly itself a little more and possibly get the best of both worlds with football and basketball.

If you could somehow get teams like Arkansas State and Tulsa to join you would really have an improved conference without lets say South Dakota/WIU and better diversity across the Midwest. Youngstown State would bring a lot for football if they got basketball going at all more so then USD or WIU from the MVCF.

No offense, but if the MVC did this upon a CU move, WSU would be looking for an even quicker exit than they already are. SDSU isn't a horrible program, but adding them and NDSU doesn't do a lot for the basketball side of things. And if you wanted to throw in WIU that would just make most of us vomit. Intense, painful vomiting.

If they added the Dakota schools for football, the 12th member would have to be basketball focused. And even then, WSU would have a foot out the door as we're not landing anybody that can replace CU.

And it's my understanding the the MVC can't move up football as a group so even thinking about an ASU or Tulsa is pointless. Wichita may or may not think about bringing back football in 5 years or so. There have been rumors, but priority one is investing in basketball and growing the student population. It's currently a little over 15k and the new president has a goal of at least 20k and closer to 25k. When we get up there, football will be looked at. But not until then.

I know most in Wichita don't consider there to be any chance that the MVC becomes improved with any departure outside of Evansville. And even if CU stays, I know WSU will be looking at other options. Until more schools show they're willing to invest in basketball, Wichita isn't thrilled about being where they are.

Trust me I don't think WIU should ever be in our conference because of their basketball, it's just they are in the MVCF. Drake on the other hand is in the Pioneer league but MVC basketball. I think to try and move the conference up to FBS you would need like members playing against each other in all sports, along with every member meeting the stadium and attendance requirements. This probably is the biggest hurdle because most do not. ISU is investing $25 million in suites, club level, along with a whole new East side and being at 15,000 for capacity won't get you into FBS. I don't think the Indy St., Drakes, even a good football school like UNI have the resources to commit even close to that kind of money.

My post was more of a dream because I think Valley Basketball is special and has really great tradition. I think the 10 team league where you get to play every Conf. member both Home and Away is as fair as you get to determining a Conf. Champion . You mention Wichita isn't happy with the lack of "commitment" by some of the schools. I'm guessing you're meaning financial backing. Mo State has a brand new arena...and so does Evansville. The arenas I think our crappy are Southern, UNI. , and Drake.

If your purely looking to add basketball only teams I think UIC is #1, followed by SLU or Milwaukee, and I know SubGod likes Denver and New Mexico State. Either way do you think going to 12 or 14 breaks away from the 10 team tradition that I think has made the Valley great?! Or is it time to get into more markets and grow the brand so we can try and be like the MWC.

I like 10 teams, but I like strength better. And I don't care about new arenas. MSU can't fill theirs and offer cheap tickets. They can't pay a head coach enough to not take the first offer out of town. Evansville is renting a city owned arena. They're not investing money into the program to make it any better. I have a little faith that ISU will continue to invest although I know they have dreams of FBS and are moving money there. I don't blame them. And I have hope that Bradley will turn things around and invest. Outside of that, I don't see any of the other schools putting forth the money and effort to better their basketball programs.

UIC isn't all that great to me and I don't like the thought of a 4th Illinois school. SLU is never going to happen. Milwaukee has always been on my list of possibilities. Solid, but not great program. Denver hasn't proven much but they're investing and have been improving. NMSU has great basketball history and tradition. Others that should be considered are ORU, Belmont, Murray State, Wright State and Arlington. And that's all just based upon what they show on the surface. A lot of digging into the athletic departments of each school would be required to see if they could put for the necessary tools to make basketball better and compete at the top of the MVC.

I'd gladly take 12 or 14 if it meant we were stronger as a conference. Preferably, I'd like to get out and get into a better one.

http://www.goredbirds.com/allaccess/

Click View by "Channels" Tab On top

Media Type "Features" on Left

Page 3, first 2 videos

Redbird Arena has a new 2 toned court, new men's locker rooms, and some sweet new jerseys. We are investing as much money as possible from private donations. Hopefully as the season goes on and the team keeps winning we are in the 7,000-8,000 crowd range with a couple 10,000+ sell outs for CU, WSU, Bradley, and good crowds for UNI and SIU. We have been in the 6,000 range for most of the Non. Conf. with no real exciting home games (all roadies or neutral for our better games).

On page 2 there is a media day video with new Head Coach Dan Muller. People Love the hire and a big reason you are seeing donors step up trying to help him be successful. ISU is going in the right direction don't worry about us.

Zo left for a job that pays more than any Valley school can afford. His base salary at Tennessee is more than any Valley coach makes. And they are a top 10 athletic department budget in the nation. It wasn't like we tried - we offered a 750k per year contract to Zo. Also it was no secert that Alford wanted to get back in the Big Ten. Also we don't have cheap tickets either - are tickets prices are more or equal to Wichita State's.
http://www.missouristatebears.com/ticket...askbl.html
http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/7500/Tic...EM_ID=7500
Not to mention we are finishing up a brand new practice facility inside JQH Arena that will be done for next fall. Our commitment is there.

*Disclaimer*
The current season is one of those once in a lifetime season, I never have seen a Bears this team bad and hopefully we will never see one like it again.

For MVC expansion, personally I don't see Creighton leaving unless the Catholic 7 go to 12. If they do go, I would go to 12. SDSU and NDSU would be locks. They fit MVC schools profile, strong performance in all-sports in the Summit League and under the MVC banner would get even better. For #12, Milwaukee seems to be the most logical choice. Also with the addition of NDSU, SDSU, and Milwaukee the MVC would get to add FS North to go along with FS Midwest and Comcast Chicago. Thats additonal 3 million tv sets to sell advertisers on ValleyTV.

I like the idea of going to 12.

The thing some overlook is the fact that most ALL leagues have a couple leaches. A-10, C-USA, Even XII.

When you look at FB you see the same thing. Those teams that guarantee the big boys will always be in the top half. Secret is those teams being strong enough not to pull them down.

(01-02-2013 08:08 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Secret is those teams being strong enough not to pull them down.

That's the key. There's been talk on some boards about the C7 not being strong, but the weaker teams in that group are still mostly in the 120-170 RPI range I believe. Yes, some drop below that but when the bottom of the conference is in the Top 175 or so, it's not a killer.

If we add teams, which I believe we should, we need to find schools that can invest and be no worse than middle of the road in the MVC and preferably schools that can or have the potential to compete in the upper half. There are probably 10 schools or so close enough to consider. I wish I had the time and ability to do some research into each one and try to discover what their AD is like and if they're capable of competing.

They need to be smart about it. And honestly, maybe the MVC does take a wait and see approach right now to see what the C7 does. On the off chance they leave Dayton and SLU in the A10, maybe that's the opening the MVC would need. If they're gone, or one remains, you could take the one and then add one of the other group, or two if CU was gone as well. We'd take a hit up front with that loss, but with the right adds, we could be okay in the long run.

Lets assume the C7 take Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, and Dayton/SLU.

That would leave in the A-10:

Dayton/SLU -- Good Markets
Duquesne -- Pittsburgh, PA
Fordham -- Bronx, NY
George Washington -- Washington, DC
La Salle -- Philadelphia, PA
Rhode Island -- Kingston??
Richmond -- Virginia
St. Josephs -- New York
St. Bonaventure -- BFE New York

Who would we want that would compete, bring TV dollars, and not become cost inhibitive for other sports?

(01-03-2013 07:28 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Lets assume the C7 take Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, and Dayton/SLU.

That would leave in the A-10:

Dayton/SLU -- Good Markets
Duquesne -- Pittsburgh, PA
Fordham -- Bronx, NY
George Washington -- Washington, DC
La Salle -- Philadelphia, PA
Rhode Island -- Kingston??
Richmond -- Virginia
St. Josephs -- New York
St. Bonaventure -- BFE New York

Who would we want that would compete, bring TV dollars, and not become cost inhibitive for other sports?

There are some decent/good schools there. But the real question is, would the MVC really want to add any of the Catholic schools that get left out of the new league to replace a Creighton if they left? I would be worried that those schools would just be in line for the next round of expansion if the Catholic League is a success and wants to add later.

Certainly, if SLU is left on an island in the A-10 by X, Butler and Dayton leaving and Creighton is not invited to the new league, I would make a push to add them. The same concerns about later expansion exist, but it is not a reach out of the current footprint (such as a Dayton and Duquesne) and might give CU another team to help anchor them in the MVC.

I do think there may be some push from Drake and Butler and to a lesser extent Evansville, to add another private school to the conference (like an ORU or Denver, maybe Valpo or Loyola). Or from WSU to look at a non-football school like Milwaukee or UIC.

I hope that there is some sort of plan/criteria in place, some of the recent reports and comments from Elgin and other seem to indicate that, but I just don't know. All this sitting and waiting for something else to happen to you and not being proactive is a little worrisome.

You definitely try to pull in SLU/Dayton if one is left out to replace Creighton. Not an upgrade, but if Dayton, not a downgrade either really. SLU isn't quite as good and with Majerus gone, I'm not sure what they can do. Outside of that, I'm not sure if anyone else in the A10 would be worth it or would be willing anyway. St. Joe's, Richmond, GW and Duquesne all have some history and potential but are too far away for even our less financially blessed friends in the eastern portion of the conference.

So if we were to just go back to 10, SLU/Dayton. If we wanted to go to 12 for some security and possibly more exposure and success, it gets interesting. Wright State (Not if we had Dayton), Milwaukee, Belmont, Murray State, ORU, UIC (I hate the thought of 4 IL schools), Detroit, NDSU, Denver, NMSU, Arlington, Little Rock, SDSU, Green Bay.... Those are all the possibilities off the top of my head. Some better than others on the surface, but before any addition, we need to dig deeper.

(01-04-2013 10:13 AM)TC4TC Wrote:  

(01-03-2013 07:28 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  Lets assume the C7 take Xavier, Butler, VCU, Creighton, and Dayton/SLU.

That would leave in the A-10:

Dayton/SLU -- Good Markets
Duquesne -- Pittsburgh, PA
Fordham -- Bronx, NY
George Washington -- Washington, DC
La Salle -- Philadelphia, PA
Rhode Island -- Kingston??
Richmond -- Virginia
St. Josephs -- New York
St. Bonaventure -- BFE New York

Who would we want that would compete, bring TV dollars, and not become cost inhibitive for other sports?

There are some decent/good schools there. But the real question is, would the MVC really want to add any of the Catholic schools that get left out of the new league to replace a Creighton if they left? I would be worried that those schools would just be in line for the next round of expansion if the Catholic League is a success and wants to add later.

Certainly, if SLU is left on an island in the A-10 by X, Butler and Dayton leaving and Creighton is not invited to the new league, I would make a push to add them. The same concerns about later expansion exist, but it is not a reach out of the current footprint (such as a Dayton and Duquesne) and might give CU another team to help anchor them in the MVC.

I do think there may be some push from Drake and Butler and to a lesser extent Evansville, to add another private school to the conference (like an ORU or Denver, maybe Valpo or Loyola). Or from WSU to look at a non-football school like Milwaukee or UIC.

I hope that there is some sort of plan/criteria in place, some of the recent reports and comments from Elgin and other seem to indicate that, but I just don't know. All this sitting and waiting for something else to happen to you and not being proactive is a little worrisome.

Why should we worry about expanding the footprint? It's not like we're stretched out as it is. If Dayton is an option, you definitely try to get them. Nice market and solid program and a nice area to get into for recruiting. I know some love SLU, but it's a middle of the pack team most years at best in my opinion. And with Majerus no longer there, they could fall off and I expect them to.

The biggest thing is to find a school or two or three, depending on what we need, that will actually invest in basketball and push itself to be more. Adding schools that will just compete at the bare minimum and finish at the bottom of the conference does nothing.

(01-04-2013 10:21 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  Why should we worry about expanding the footprint? It's not like we're stretched out as it is. If Dayton is an option, you definitely try to get them. Nice market and solid program and a nice area to get into for recruiting. I know some love SLU, but it's a middle of the pack team most years at best in my opinion. And with Majerus no longer there, they could fall off and I expect them to.

The biggest thing is to find a school or two or three, depending on what we need, that will actually invest in basketball and push itself to be more. Adding schools that will just compete at the bare minimum and finish at the bottom of the conference does nothing.

I'm not against expanding the footprint, but I also don't want to jump states just to add. If Dayton goes with Creighton, X, Butler and St. Louis, I wouldn't jump all of Ohio just to go try and lure Duquesne. They just aren't that great a get, good, not great.

I do like ORU, Denver and Milwaukee. All of whom are outside the footprint, alebit not much in the case of ORU and Milwaukee. NDSU and SDSU are other fringe teams. The Jacks have a good team this year and basketball tends to be that school's traditional sport even though they have FCS football. NDSU is a football school but is certainly willing to spend money and would bring a rabid fan base, and I mean almost literally rabid.

I really like the idea of adding ORU, UTA, and Denver. I don't see it happening as the Eastern Block would not go for it, but it would really balance out the geography, add nice markets, and schools willing to invest in their programs.

(01-05-2013 10:48 AM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  I really like the idea of adding ORU, UTA, and Denver. I don't see it happening as the Eastern Block would not go for it, but it would really balance out the geography, add nice markets, and schools willing to invest in their programs.

I would be okay with that. As long as ORU has their financial issues behind them. Arlington is investing and improving. Denver is investing and has shown some flashes. If we were adding three though, I'd assume we'd have to throw the east a bone and make at least one add that direction. In which case, right now, I'd go with ORU and Arlington and then Milwaukee.

Is UTA adding football or is that just the southern Texas-blanks? I would think the privates/non-football schools would want that kind of balance rather than add more football schools. Milwaukee has club ball but it doesn't seem likely to expand to even non-scholarship level any time soon.

Hadn't though of UTA, but that's not a bad add if ORU is also added-again it's the state-jumping thing as far as geography.

Here is another thought after reading an article I cant link to on my phone, but says that the C7 will take $5 mil a year and the other schools will basically split what is left.

What if Xavier, Butler, Dayton, Creighton and others said screw that, banded with some other schools and created thier own conference? Granted they would not bring in the dollars the C7 would, not right away anyways, but they could be equal partners. Imagine:

East:
Xavier
Butler
Dayton
VCU
George Mason
Richmond

West:
Creighton
Bradley
Wichita State
Gonzaga
St. Louis
St. Mary's

I only dont include Illinois State due to them looking to move to FBS football.

Creating a new conference would be difficult. No auto bid for 5 or 7 years and giving up earned NCAA credits, but that would be a solid conference that even without an auto could get half the conference to dance. And being that none of them have to worry about football, it would be intriguing. I'm not sure WSU has completely ruled out football down the road, but in a conference like that, they probably could and feel alright about where they are.