(12-14-2012 06:03 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:50 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:38 PM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:26 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

I am with you in my understanding of the MAC. Honestly, it's pretty embarrassing that the Sun Belt teams can pay 3 times as much for a HC as we do. And I have no delusions as to the excellence of the MAC.

Having said that, this is my thought. These four teams and especially UC and UConn did not sign up for this schit sandwich that they now have. In no parallel universe would they ever come to the MAC asking to be a member. However, the current state of affairs has to be really stressful to them. Take a look at what they have left. Their best option is to park their football teams in the MAC and follow this conference with their other sports but I hope the MAC doesn't allow that to happen. After all these other schools left CUSA, they backfilled with Sun Belt teams so that conference will be too big to backfill with their football onlys and it is spread all around. They aren't going to be getting the TV deal they used to get so it will be expensive to send all their sports teams across the country to play whereas the MAC is in a close footprint for them.

Let's say you absolutely hate tuna sandwiches and you could never imagine eating them in your lifetime. You eat filet mignon and T-Bone steaks every day. However, you wake up one day and all you can find in the stores and restaurants are pig schit sandwiches, dog schit sandwiches, and tuna sandwiches. After four days of not eating, would you go for the tasty pig schit sandwich or the delicious dog schit sandwich just because you were above the tuna sandwich (MAC) all your life?

Edit: Do you think Navy is going to remain a member? Maybe, maybe not. Are Boise and San Diego State going to stay? Highly doubtful. Are they going to be able to lure the remaining stronger non AQ teams to this mystery conference? Maybe but probably not. Is the MAC going anywhere? No. The MAC suddenly isn't as terrible of an option as it was even 6 months ago or a year ago.

UofToledofans: which women's basketball team will the UConn women be playing against in their current format that are better than Toledo? Toledo is no Tennessee, Baylor, etc. but I don't think they have those options either.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea but being a realist it will never occur. I hate to keep picking on EMU but teams like them, Akron, and Buffalo will prevent us from landing anyone with pedigree. Think the BE kicking out Temple a couple years back, or now the Catholic schools bolting because of Tulane and ECU coming in. It is all perception. As soon as those schools join the MAC their perception of themselves changes and the markets perception of them changes. There is just too much dead weight in this league for any big time programs to consider us.

Yea Akron and Buffalo bring more to hoops than NIU... Don't paint with too broad a brush there..

NIU all time record 1046 W 1031 L
Buffalo all time record 1055 W 1031 L
Bring more huh?

Viable MAC Expansion Candidates:

Big East Temple, Connecticut, Cincinnati, Memphis

Sun Belt Arkansas State, W. Kentucky, Georgia State

FCS Appalachian State, James Madison, Delaware


I don't really think the Big East schools are in play for the MAC but I suppose it isn't inconceivable if the B12 moved to 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis leaving UConn and Temple out on an island they might have some interest in MAC ball.

The SBC schools are for the first time obtainable and one of them per division doesn't impact travel too much while assisting the league with bowl games.

That is another big question for the league, what is the long term vision for its bowl games. If the MAC could get regional bowl games in Indianapolis, Atlanta and Little Rock that would be much better than having to settle for Boise and Hawaii. Far flung games convenient for few MAC fans.

1) Indianapolis (vs. SEC)
2) Detroit (vs. B1G)
3) Little Rock (vs. CUSA)
4) Atlanta (vs. SBC)

Something like this would be sustainable for the MAC if it had Arkansas State and Georgia State in the conference.

Hell!!! While we're at it lets invite Mt. Union too!!!! LOL

(12-14-2012 04:26 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  My biggest concern is that too many people on this board think after one great season the MAC is suddenly the best non-AQ. Considering we pay our coaches like crap and a lot of the top names continue to leave for greener pastures we will not retain on our status as a the top Non-AQ very long as we will always struggle to develop consistency which is what you need to raise the profile of the whole league. All the other leagues are making moves (up coaches pay, adding teams, etc.) which will allow them to eventually pass us. Meanwhile we just sit back and watch it go down.

MAC, SBC, CUSA, and WAC coaches will always move on to a bigger job if offered no matter how much money you give them. Arkansas St lost their coach after one season despite paying him $800k (?). San Jose St, Louisiana Tech, WKU, etc. all lost their coaches as well despite paying far more money than us.

We cannot keep pace with the ridiculous amounts of money BCS schools want to throw at coaches unless we somehow land one of those lucrative TV deals. Instead, we can use that money more wisely on getting BCS opponents in our stadium, facility improvements, etc.

Reward coaches who win with pay raises at the end of the year, but to just give someone a lot of money without proving anything doesn't make much sense at the mid-major level.

I would have had no problem with NIU giving Doeren a hefty pay raise after this season, but it wouldn't make much sense for us to have started him off at $800k+ with no prior head coaching experience just to keep pace with other schools.

(12-16-2012 05:06 PM)utpotts Wrote:  Hell!!! While we're at it lets invite Mt. Union too!!!! LOL

I'd rather see LK limited to just 2 stupid posts/week.

Anyway, I think MAC teams are more likely to be poached, than the MAC expand further.

What MAC member university wouldnt consider being in a bball league w/ UConn, Cincy, Temple...and maybe Memphis?

The end result could be a respectable EC conference, and maybe a more diverse MAC.

(12-16-2012 05:37 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-16-2012 05:06 PM)utpotts Wrote:  Hell!!! While we're at it lets invite Mt. Union too!!!! LOL

I'd rather see LK limited to just 2 stupid posts/week.

Anyway, I think MAC teams are more likely to be poached, than the MAC expand further.

What MAC member university wouldnt consider being in a bball league w/ UConn, Cincy, Temple...and maybe Memphis?

The end result could be a respectable EC conference, and maybe a more diverse MAC.

I disagree with you on this point.

The MAC is more likely to get a 14th school than to be poached. Some think UMass is headed for the BE but I don't see it until UConn leaves.

The MAC should have a 14th announced by this summer.

Quote:Brendan Prunty ‏@BrendanPrunty
Cincinnati and UConn also on the table as well, according to sources. Could work a deal for all sports and football elsewhere.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=607619

There is some preliminary talk here that UConn and UC will be joining the catholic school league while placing their football in another conference.

The Big East football conference looks to be on very shaky ground. I know the MWC has a counter offer out there to add SDSU, Boise, BYU, SMU, Houston and Memphis to become a more compact 16 team conference just as good as what the BE can put on the table.

Interesting times could be ahead....

(12-16-2012 08:32 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

Quote:Brendan Prunty ‏@BrendanPrunty
Cincinnati and UConn also on the table as well, according to sources. Could work a deal for all sports and football elsewhere.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=607619

There is some preliminary talk here that UConn and UC will be joining the catholic school league while placing their football in another conference.

The Big East football conference looks to be on very shaky ground. I know the MWC has a counter offer out there to add SDSU, Boise, BYU, SMU, Houston and Memphis to become a more compact 16 team conference just as good as what the BE can put on the table.

Interesting times could be ahead....

Better be the Sun Belt or that FCS monstrosity CUSA!! Screw that noise!

Edit: typed without thinking. Ok, I would be fine with UC and UConn coming in for football only if it meant Temple coming back for all sports, which gave UMASS enough of what it wanted to come in all sports then. That is the only way that I would be fine with the MAC welcoming those two schools in for football only.

(12-16-2012 04:24 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  Viable MAC Expansion Candidates:

Big East Temple, Connecticut, Cincinnati, Memphis

Sun Belt Arkansas State, W. Kentucky, Georgia State

FCS Appalachian State, James Madison, Delaware


I don't really think the Big East schools are in play for the MAC but I suppose it isn't inconceivable if the B12 moved to 12 with Cincinnati and Memphis leaving UConn and Temple out on an island they might have some interest in MAC ball.

The SBC schools are for the first time obtainable and one of them per division doesn't impact travel too much while assisting the league with bowl games.

That is another big question for the league, what is the long term vision for its bowl games. If the MAC could get regional bowl games in Indianapolis, Atlanta and Little Rock that would be much better than having to settle for Boise and Hawaii. Far flung games convenient for few MAC fans.

1) Indianapolis (vs. SEC)
2) Detroit (vs. B1G)
3) Little Rock (vs. CUSA)
4) Atlanta (vs. SBC)

Something like this would be sustainable for the MAC if it had Arkansas State and Georgia State in the conference.

I'm not as big a fan of Georgia State in the MAC. That might help our recruiting in the south and gives us more of a foothold in southern bowl games, but I think that the Chik-fil-a Bowl will stay firmly with the SEC and ACC, especially since there's going to be a new stadium being built there. There's a chance that the Georgia Dome will stay up and maybe two bowls will be played in the city like New Orleans and Orlando, but not very likely in my opinion. The travel costs as well wouldn't be so great, and it would go against the MAC strategy that we've been trying to stay true to over the course of realignment. I think it would turn out like UCF.

Really, I think the biggest thing about all of this realignment that's coming around is that mid-majors have to realize that they're not one of the big boys. The BE and the theoretical UConn/UC conference is forming with the intention of grabbing big TV markets to make a lot of money and outgun the Big Ten and SEC, which will never happen. We've realized this a long time ago as we've grown up in the shadows of OSU, Michigan, and other teams, with resources that have dwarfed ours since Oberlin beat OSU in the 1920's. We can expand our footprint all we want, but I think it's unsustainable for the MAC to pursue such aggressive expansion into geographically unstable territory. We saw that UCF bolted after they got a better opportunity, and it could very likely happen again if we expand, or one of our longtime MAC schools could leave. We don't know. The thing is, we just have to set ourselves up for a stable future, and we do that by attracting bowls and TV exposure.

By having a great year (by MAC standards), we can maybe eat away at the money that other non-AQ conferences have, and use the momentum we have now to make smart, rational decisions. UC/UConn is really a pipe dream, but they would make sense because they fit our geographical plan, they have solid markets, and they would definitely improve the MAC and its image as a whole. Temple is unlikely, but would help us out a lot too. We just have to send out offers to our dream choices, and work down from there. In a perfect world, MAC football would have a season like this every year, with a few ranked teams, a lot of bowl teams, and success against the big boys. We'll get poached for sure, but if we're on stable footing, we won't be reeling as much when it happens (see Miami football during Shane Montgomery).

Regional bowl games being created would be ideal for the MAC, but I'm not hearing any rumors that they're being created. In 2014 when the dust has settled (hopefully), I dream we could be here: Assuming the likely scenario that UC/UConn/Temple don't even sniff the MAC, we should accept UMass in full, go after stAte/Army/Navy, pursue JMU/UD if one of them decline, then fatten our TV contract. Try and get something with NBC Sports, CBS College, or FSN, while expanding our weeknights on ESPN. If an Indianapolis or Little Rock don't take charge, then go with this setup. I think with our success and a lineup of teams that includes some of the teams mentioned above, we could get to five bowls with a lot of luck, that's a big if though.

1. Independence (vs. SEC) - Southern bowl, close to stAte
2. Godaddy.com (vs. Belt) - Same as Indy Bowl
3. Detroit (vs. Big Ten) - Local bowl, pretty obvious
4. Military Bowl (vs. ACC) - For Army/Navy mostly
5. Hawaii (vs. MWC) - Someone has to take it, we will if we have the chance.
Alternates affiliations with:

It's time to start trying to bring Marshall back in

(12-17-2012 12:51 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Regional bowl games being created would be ideal for the MAC, but I'm not hearing any rumors that they're being created. In 2014 when the dust has settled (hopefully), I dream we could be here: Assuming the likely scenario that UC/UConn/Temple don't even sniff the MAC, we should accept UMass in full, go after stAte/Army/Navy, pursue JMU/UD if one of them decline, then fatten our TV contract. Try and get something with NBC Sports, CBS College, or FSN, while expanding our weeknights on ESPN. If an Indianapolis or Little Rock don't take charge, then go with this setup. I think with our success and a lineup of teams that includes some of the teams mentioned above, we could get to five bowls with a lot of luck, that's a big if though.

1. Independence (vs. SEC) - Southern bowl, close to stAte
2. Godaddy.com (vs. Belt) - Same as Indy Bowl
3. Detroit (vs. Big Ten) - Local bowl, pretty obvious
4. Military Bowl (vs. ACC) - For Army/Navy mostly
5. Hawaii (vs. MWC) - Someone has to take it, we will if we have the chance.
Alternates affiliations with:

Yes I think you understand well that its a process. The MAC doesn't enter into its negotiating window with ESPN until 2015 and the league is waiting to maximize its leverage once the parameters become clear.

1) Playoff-This one has been at the center of the debate for the past year. Its finally settled what the access and money is going to look like so the league can move forward.

2) Big East- What exactly is going to become of the Big East? I don't think anyone knows yet aside from that they have an unbalanced football membership starting in 2015 that needs to be filled.

The situation here is no different here than it was 2 months ago when they began deliberations over their TV network, still looking for a 14th back then. The BE lost 2 schools and gained 2 schools, still no 14th.

3) Bowls- I know the MAC leadership has been talking about bowl games and I think our tie-ins could be improved. Several schools have complained about the distance associated with bowl games held by the MAC and want something more regional.

4) Membership- The MAC has an opportunity to better its position with the correct selection of a 14th member. With the BE in flux its near impossible to make any decision now but hopefully that picture will clear up over the next 6 months as to what options are really on the table.

I like Arkansas State a lot because they deliver some bowl eligible seasons and you can fit them neatly into the MAC West Division. Down the road they could lead to the MAC establishing a bowl in Little Rock.

As you can see from above, the MAC is very much in waiting mode to see whatever moves the bigger conferences are making; from what schools they are adding to what bowl games they are after. Whatever is left over is what the MAC has to work with and hopefully build from there.

(12-16-2012 04:20 PM)NIUBIGGS Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 06:03 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:50 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:38 PM)Campbell4President Wrote:  

(12-14-2012 04:26 PM)HuskieTap22 Wrote:  

I am with you in my understanding of the MAC. Honestly, it's pretty embarrassing that the Sun Belt teams can pay 3 times as much for a HC as we do. And I have no delusions as to the excellence of the MAC.

Having said that, this is my thought. These four teams and especially UC and UConn did not sign up for this schit sandwich that they now have. In no parallel universe would they ever come to the MAC asking to be a member. However, the current state of affairs has to be really stressful to them. Take a look at what they have left. Their best option is to park their football teams in the MAC and follow this conference with their other sports but I hope the MAC doesn't allow that to happen. After all these other schools left CUSA, they backfilled with Sun Belt teams so that conference will be too big to backfill with their football onlys and it is spread all around. They aren't going to be getting the TV deal they used to get so it will be expensive to send all their sports teams across the country to play whereas the MAC is in a close footprint for them.

Let's say you absolutely hate tuna sandwiches and you could never imagine eating them in your lifetime. You eat filet mignon and T-Bone steaks every day. However, you wake up one day and all you can find in the stores and restaurants are pig schit sandwiches, dog schit sandwiches, and tuna sandwiches. After four days of not eating, would you go for the tasty pig schit sandwich or the delicious dog schit sandwich just because you were above the tuna sandwich (MAC) all your life?

Edit: Do you think Navy is going to remain a member? Maybe, maybe not. Are Boise and San Diego State going to stay? Highly doubtful. Are they going to be able to lure the remaining stronger non AQ teams to this mystery conference? Maybe but probably not. Is the MAC going anywhere? No. The MAC suddenly isn't as terrible of an option as it was even 6 months ago or a year ago.

UofToledofans: which women's basketball team will the UConn women be playing against in their current format that are better than Toledo? Toledo is no Tennessee, Baylor, etc. but I don't think they have those options either.

Don't get me wrong I like the idea but being a realist it will never occur. I hate to keep picking on EMU but teams like them, Akron, and Buffalo will prevent us from landing anyone with pedigree. Think the BE kicking out Temple a couple years back, or now the Catholic schools bolting because of Tulane and ECU coming in. It is all perception. As soon as those schools join the MAC their perception of themselves changes and the markets perception of them changes. There is just too much dead weight in this league for any big time programs to consider us.

Yea Akron and Buffalo bring more to hoops than NIU... Don't paint with too broad a brush there..

NIU all time record 1046 W 1031 L
Buffalo all time record 1055 W 1031 L
Bring more huh?

This decade... Hell yes Buffalo has brought more.. You want to go all the way back to when UB was a completely unfunded school? DII and DIII era? Sure yea, thats real relevant.

The fact is NIU basketball has become as embarrassing to the MAC as EMU or Buffalo football... Scratch that UB and EMU have managed 500 football seasons since 2006...

NIU basketball has become *MORE* embarrassing than UB football. Hell our football team this year got as many conference wins as your basketball team did last season..

I like NIU and I am only pointing this out so that you wont treat your well deserved trip to the Orange bowl as a chance to Shaq on other conference members.

Forget about Memphis. The MAC only has three spaces, since UMass is already on board for football, so get the other three with the condition that the Minutemen must also join for all sports. The A-10 is going to be raided anyway and become weaker so UMass should start preparing to get out of Dodge.

MAC EAST
UMass \ UConn
Temple \ Buffalo
Kent State \ Akron
Ohio \ Cincinnati

MAC WEST
Miami \ Ball State
Bowling Green \ Toledo
Eastern Michigan \ Central Michigan
Western Michigan \ Northern Illinois

This is why people should write this stuff out and look at how things fit together, rather than saying get a bunch of schools, since Memphis clearly does not belong in the MAC. Now of course I highly doubt UConn and Cincy are interested in the MAC, nor Temple, so this whole fantasy is extremely unlikely.

(12-17-2012 01:55 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Now of course I highly doubt UConn and Cincy are interested in the MAC, nor Temple, so this whole fantasy is extremely unlikely.

I would suggest the reverse not so much.

(12-14-2012 04:51 PM)jons99 Wrote:  Seems more likely that the left over Big East teams will try to cherry pick teams like NIU

NIU isn't going to that mess without 2-3 other MAC schools.

If 2 of the 3 were from this list that would be fine by me...
Toledo
BSU
Miami
WMU

make a list of all the schools in the 5 Little Sisters of the Poor conferences ranking them from most desirable to least desirable and slice them into 5 equally sized groups. There's your new conferences, and I bet none of them have UConn and UC mixed with the majority of current MAC teams.

(12-17-2012 02:12 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  make a list of all the schools in the 5 Little Sisters of the Poor conferences ranking them from most desirable to least desirable and slice them into 5 equally sized groups. There's your new conferences, and I bet none of them have UConn and UC mixed with the majority of current MAC teams.

I think you'd push to 6 conferences.

(12-17-2012 01:55 PM)Lolly Popp Wrote:  Forget about Memphis. The MAC only has three spaces, since UMass is already on board for football, so get the other three with the condition that the Minutemen must also join for all sports. The A-10 is going to be raided anyway and become weaker so UMass should start preparing to get out of Dodge.

MAC EAST
UMass \ UConn
Temple \ Buffalo
Kent State \ Akron
Ohio \ Cincinnati

MAC WEST
Miami \ Ball State
Bowling Green \ Toledo
Eastern Michigan \ Central Michigan
Western Michigan \ Northern Illinois

This is why people should write this stuff out and look at how things fit together, rather than saying get a bunch of schools, since Memphis clearly does not belong in the MAC. Now of course I highly doubt UConn and Cincy are interested in the MAC, nor Temple, so this whole fantasy is extremely unlikely.

I think MAC will add UConn football only and let them put everything else with the BE Catholic schools. It works for both the MAC, ESPN and UConn.

(12-14-2012 04:06 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Uconn.... has been national champs how many times in womens basketball? No way will they want to be beating Toledo by 60 points for their closest game of MAC play. You may want it, but that's like asking MAC teams to go play some DIII powerhouses in football, because sadly some of our teams play like DIII powerhouses.

Over 7300 rabid Rocket fans in Savage with the Huskies in town? I think we'd pull off the upset...