(12-21-2012 12:36 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 04:29 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 02:51 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 12:45 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  

(12-20-2012 11:13 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  When I speak of coaching success in year three I'm not talking about all coaches, I'm talking about UTEP coaches since Haskins.

What direction was UTEP basketball heading in Rab's third season?

Billy G did not coach a third season here.

What direction was the program headed in Doc's third season?

Barbee admittedly has the program on the rise but was rapidly approaching his ceiling.

Wow, that was quite the whiff on your part, lol!

All of the coaches you mentioned had winning seasons in their second season. Floyd is now in his third season and before last night, looked like he was headed for another losing season.

At least now the team looks like they could end up .500 if they continue to play the way they played last night.

No sir. No. Look at the original quote. You specifically referred to the third season of a coach's run at UTEP. I didn't mention them, you did. Now you want to talk about their second season. By that logic, Coach Floyd is even better because he had a winning season in his first season here.

That's right. Going into their third season, most coaches had already brought their teams back from a rebuilding season. Floyd was not able to do that and it's still not clear if this team will have a winning season either.

his second season was a rebuilding season, so if by your account it takes 3 seasons to rebuild... you do the math

Mistabinks

The point I am making is that compared to other UTEP coaches after Haskins, season three had the teams coming off of winning seasons. Their season three may not have ended up as expected but going into their third season, fans were expecting a winning season and post season play.

If you listen to talk radio regularly, there is plenty of talk and expectation that Floyd should reach the post season this year.

Your point is well taken, you are some others are willing to wait 3 or 4 seasons for an overall better program.

Let me remind you however that this is the same attitude that gave us several consecutive losing seasons with Mike Price.

Based on what I am hearing from talk radio, I don't think most UTEP fans are willing to make the same mistake twice.

Fitbud

There is not strict cookie cutter formula to coaching. Everything situation is different. Billy G set an NCAA record. We can't expect every UTEP coach to accomplish what he did. Doc had the program in a nosedive. We can lower our expectations to that level. Barbee was average in every sense of the word. We shouldn't accept average. Hell, we considered Barbee to be a great recruiter. Compare him to Saint Floyd. No contest. Every coaching staff faces their own challenges. I could not care less what expectations are going into a third season. UTEP basketball is on the rise. Maybe you are okay with a decent second season with the program going south. That's you. I rather take my lumps now and land on the moon the very near future.

Coach Tim Floyd has so much support that you lose any argument comparing him to Mike Price. It is not even worth the time to pick apart your argument. Mike Price had two good seasons and 7 disappointing ones. That is not comparable to Coach Tim Floyd and this is coming from a Mike Price supporter.

We are going to have a nationally relevant basketball program by Coach Tim Floyd's fifth season. There are very few schools that wouldn't be happy with that.

(12-29-2012 10:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Mistabinks

The point I am making is that compared to other UTEP coaches after Haskins, season three had the teams coming off of winning seasons. Their season three may not have ended up as expected but going into their third season, fans were expecting a winning season and post season play.

If you listen to talk radio regularly, there is plenty of talk and expectation that Floyd should reach the post season this year.

Your point is well taken, you are some others are willing to wait 3 or 4 seasons for an overall better program.

Let me remind you however that this is the same attitude that gave us several consecutive losing seasons with Mike Price.

Based on what I am hearing from talk radio, I don't think most UTEP fans are willing to make the same mistake twice.

oh sthu... You always try to speak for everyone (nobody wants the stadium, it isn't going to pass, my crazies will stop it, etc), but just like the bond elections, you are in the minority. It is the same song and dance from you, day in, day out.

(12-29-2012 02:49 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  Fitbud

There is not strict cookie cutter formula to coaching. Everything situation is different. Billy G set an NCAA record. We can't expect every UTEP coach to accomplish what he did. Doc had the program in a nosedive. We can lower our expectations to that level. Barbee was average in every sense of the word. We shouldn't accept average. Hell, we considered Barbee to be a great recruiter. Compare him to Saint Floyd. No contest. Every coaching staff faces their own challenges. I could not care less what expectations are going into a third season. UTEP basketball is on the rise. Maybe you are okay with a decent second season with the program going south. That's you. I rather take my lumps now and land on the moon the very near future.

Coach Tim Floyd has so much support that you lose any argument comparing him to Mike Price. It is not even worth the time to pick apart your argument. Mike Price had two good seasons and 7 disappointing ones. That is not comparable to Coach Tim Floyd and this is coming from a Mike Price supporter.

We are going to have a nationally relevant basketball program by Coach Tim Floyd's fifth season. There are very few schools that wouldn't be happy with that.

I don't disagree with your post. We have more in common than you think. I too want UTEP basketball to be successful. The only difference is that I am not willing to wait 5 seasons for it to happen and I don't think there are many others that will. If it takes Floyd 5 seasons before UTEP because a relevant bball team again, I would be surprised if people don't start calling for his firing.

The reason why I compared Floyd to Price is because they are good coaches who are expected to bring UTEP to new levels. Price was never able to do that and it remains to be seen if Floyd can.

I predict that Floyd will have only moderate success and that is only because CUSA will be a pretty pathetic basketball conference in a couple of years.

In Floyd El Paso trusts. No significant number will ever call for his firing. And not within his first five years.

(01-01-2013 08:09 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  In Floyd El Paso trusts. No significant number will ever call for his firing. And not within his first five years.

Perhaps that is the biggest problem with UTEP and the whole "good ol boy" system in El Paso.....


As long as we keep hiring our friends and family, it doesn't matter what kind of job they do.

You may be 100% correct. I'm hoping however that El Paso has learned something from last 7 years with Mike Price.

Trust in Floyd has nothing to do with the good ole boy system. You don't see Aaron Price or Andre Patterson coaching the football team, do you? Nice try. UTEP basketball is on the rise. That is all that matters. Especially after the way Barbee left the program.

(01-02-2013 03:59 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  Trust in Floyd has nothing to do with the good ole boy system. You don't see Aaron Price or Andre Patterson coaching the football team, do you? Nice try. UTEP basketball is on the rise. That is all that matters. Especially after the way Barbee left the program.

Tim Floyd got the job because he used to be an assistant at UTEP under Haskins.

Let's be honest here. Lots of people didn't like Barbie and it wasn't because he wasn't a good coach, it was because he "didn't fit in" wink wink.

Stull was smart enough to know that people would be happier with a familiar name so he went with the easy choice. Tim Floyd.

Although I am happy with the new football hire,( because it is a guy whose star is on the rise and not setting, ) he didn't stray far from the nest there either.


There is a big difference between what the boosters will tolerate and what the rest of El Paso will tolerate.

If you've ever watched a basketball game from center court anywhere within the first 10 rows you would know exactly what I am talking about.

(01-03-2013 11:30 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 03:59 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  Trust in Floyd has nothing to do with the good ole boy system. You don't see Aaron Price or Andre Patterson coaching the football team, do you? Nice try. UTEP basketball is on the rise. That is all that matters. Especially after the way Barbee left the program.

Tim Floyd got the job because he used to be an assistant at UTEP under Haskins.

Is that the only reason? Stull does like continuity but Floyd is a world class coach that would take a pay cut to coach here.

(01-03-2013 11:30 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Let's be honest here. Lots of people didn't like Barbie and it wasn't because he wasn't a good coach, it was because he "didn't fit in" wink wink.

Expand. Source? Make an actual point. None of this wink wink crap. None of this 'most people' crap.

(01-03-2013 11:30 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Stull was smart enough to know that people would be happier with a familiar name so he went with the easy choice. Tim Floyd.

Wrong. Stull and UTEP were fortunate that Billy G became a player in the 11th hour. Dickey all but had the job initially and the fan base wasn't happy with that.

(01-03-2013 11:30 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If you've ever watched a basketball game from center court anywhere within the first 10 rows you would know exactly what I am talking about.

I watch every single game from that area

(01-03-2013 11:30 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-02-2013 03:59 PM)mistabinks Wrote:  Trust in Floyd has nothing to do with the good ole boy system. You don't see Aaron Price or Andre Patterson coaching the football team, do you? Nice try. UTEP basketball is on the rise. That is all that matters. Especially after the way Barbee left the program.

Tim Floyd got the job because he used to be an assistant at UTEP under Haskins.

Let's be honest here. Lots of people didn't like Barbie and it wasn't because he wasn't a good coach, it was because he "didn't fit in" wink wink.

Stull was smart enough to know that people would be happier with a familiar name so he went with the easy choice. Tim Floyd.

Although I am happy with the new football hire,( because it is a guy whose star is on the rise and not setting, ) he didn't stray far from the nest there either.


There is a big difference between what the boosters will tolerate and what the rest of El Paso will tolerate.

If you've ever watched a basketball game from center court anywhere within the first 10 rows you would know exactly what I am talking about.

see that is your problem, you can't see inside the don from tennis west

Tim Floyd being a assistant coach wasn't the only reason why he got the job obviously. However, his connection to Haskins and name recognition was a big factor.

As for Tony Barbie, all you have to do is listen to Sports Talk 600 to know that people in El Paso didn't like Tony Barbie and it wasn't because they thought he was a bad coach because his record speaks for itself. People said things such as, " He doesn't fit in". " He hasn't reached out to the fans". "He seems distant", " He is not endearing". We all know what this is code for. If you don't get it then I can't help you with that.

This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but wtf, here is goes...

People didn't like Barbee for two main reasons, which dovetail:
1. He played an uptempo style of offense, and defense was secondary, even to the most seasoned observers. This was a departure from the years of defense first basketball fans were accustomed to with Haskins, and to an extent, BG and Doc Sadler.
2. He never denied, nor tried to hide, that UTEP was a stepping stone job for him, and he would bolt at the first good offer. UTEP fans were spoiled by the longevity of Haskins, and most were/are unrealistic as to the chances of a solid coach staying at UTEP for 20+ years.

An additional reason, which was secondary, but fits to the notion that he "didn't fit in," was that Barbee was an unapologetic East Coast prick to most people. He didn't understand, nor did he try to, understand the sleepy, slowed-down ways of Far West Texas.

IMHO.

(01-09-2013 04:26 PM)zyxwvutsru Wrote:  This is probably going to be an unpopular opinion, but wtf, here is goes...

People didn't like Barbee for two main reasons, which dovetail:
1. He played an uptempo style of offense, and defense was secondary, even to the most seasoned observers. This was a departure from the years of defense first basketball fans were accustomed to with Haskins, and to an extent, BG and Doc Sadler.
2. He never denied, nor tried to hide, that UTEP was a stepping stone job for him, and he would bolt at the first good offer. UTEP fans were spoiled by the longevity of Haskins, and most were/are unrealistic as to the chances of a solid coach staying at UTEP for 20+ years.

An additional reason, which was secondary, but fits to the notion that he "didn't fit in," was that Barbee was an unapologetic East Coast prick to most people. He didn't understand, nor did he try to, understand the sleepy, slowed-down ways of Far West Texas.

IMHO.

Very good points

I don't disagree with your assessments.

IMHO however, there were still others (like myself) who welcomed the modern, high flying style of Barbie and his connections to the east coast.

It was awesome for UTEP to step on the floor and be the most talented team on the court.


Haskins was awesome but that style of basketball isn't very exciting or modern.

Highlights of UTEP top commit Isaac Hamilton and St. John Bosco High School of California.

1/21 against Orange Lutheran
1/9 against Mater Dei
12/26 against Blanche Ely
12/14 against Inglewood

Stay tuned in to iBN Sports Network all season long for more great action!
http://www.youtube.com/ibnsportsnetwork

I certainly hope that Hamilton will be a good player for UTEP.

One thing that I have noticed is that expectations for this kid are more realistic on this board and less realistic in the local sports talk shows.

Many on Sports Talk 600 honestly believe that this guy is going to be the savior of UTEP. I don't think it is wise to put that much pressure on a freshmen.