(06-20-2012 03:27 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Terry what is the ND read on this? Are they solid to the BE? or would they jump? How about an ACC counteroffer?

No idea. I just heard the ND receipt of the offer information. Nothing else.

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse?

I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

4 teams is plausible for me. (6 Big 12 opponents per year, though, doesn't sound like something ND would agree to.) Maybe they'd play UT and OU annually for 2 games and then use the other 2 games to rotate through the rest of the Big 12 (giving all of them games against ND 2 years out of every 8-eyar cycle, which could be enough to sway the non-UT/OU members). The Big 12 might also be accommodating to scheduling those games in November when it's more difficult for ND to get top tier non-conference opponents.

As I've said elsewhere, ND moving to the Big 12 would surprise me, but definitely wouldn't shock me. It makes sense on some levels (more athletic departments like UT, OU and KU that are on the level of ND's athletic department and the maintaining the stature of being in a "Big Five" conference) and doesn't make sense on other levels (Catholic school connections and Midwestern/East Coast geography that matters more for non-FB and is more accessible to where ND alums actually live).

(06-20-2012 03:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:19 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  The B12 doesn't have the balls to tell ND all or nothing?

Why would you tell ND that and then ruin any chance whatsoever at getting them for all sports in the future? It has nothing to do with not having "balls". It has everything to do with making a smart business decision. Notre Dame is going to do whatever they want to do as long as they have a large following and an NBC over the air TV deal that trumps everybody.

ND has been slipping of late, their partial membership in the BE has lead to part of the BE's problems.

B12 lays down the law about coming over and not bowing to their elitist football demands then things will change for the better. The B12 has the tv money to not need ND as much as ND might need them when the BE for all their other sports goes south.

ND is a completely different animal than anyone else in college football. You don't alienate ND with demands that ND doesn't NEED right now. The Big East is still an acceptable spot for ND but it HAS gone South in their eyes. They've said it's not the same conference they originally signed up for. There's probably a lot more to this story if it's true. ND knows something is up.

ND will probably play teams where the biggest Big XII Catholic populations are.

The stray sports can join any conference they want.

(06-20-2012 03:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:19 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  The B12 doesn't have the balls to tell ND all or nothing?

Why would you tell ND that and then ruin any chance whatsoever at getting them for all sports in the future? It has nothing to do with not having "balls". It has everything to do with making a smart business decision. Notre Dame is going to do whatever they want to do as long as they have a large following and an NBC over the air TV deal that trumps everybody.

ND has been slipping of late, their partial membership in the BE has lead to part of the BE's problems.

B12 lays down the law about coming over and not bowing to their elitist football demands then things will change for the better. The B12 has the tv money to not need ND as much as ND might need them when the BE for all their other sports goes south.

Clearly, the Big 12 thinks differently than you.

If the "Big 12 laid down the law", then their offer would be met with a quick, polite "no" by ND.

Then, ND would just play their other sports in the Big East.

The Big 12 clearly sees value in making a partial, hybrid, no football offer to ND.

(06-20-2012 03:35 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:27 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:19 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  The B12 doesn't have the balls to tell ND all or nothing?

Why would you tell ND that and then ruin any chance whatsoever at getting them for all sports in the future? It has nothing to do with not having "balls". It has everything to do with making a smart business decision. Notre Dame is going to do whatever they want to do as long as they have a large following and an NBC over the air TV deal that trumps everybody.

ND has been slipping of late, their partial membership in the BE has lead to part of the BE's problems.

B12 lays down the law about coming over and not bowing to their elitist football demands then things will change for the better. The B12 has the tv money to not need ND as much as ND might need them when the BE for all their other sports goes south.

Clearly, the Big 12 thinks differently than you.

If the "Big 12 laid down the law", then their offer would be met with a quick, polite "no" by ND.

Then, ND would just play their other sports in the Big East.

The Big 12 clearly sees value in making a partial, hybrid, no football offer to ND.

The ACC better see the value too! This would be real bad for the ACC.

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn? When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

Lol at the Big East if this happens.

(06-20-2012 03:48 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Lol at the Big East if this happens.

I think the Big East would split if ND leaves too.

Do the majority of them just join the A10?

I think this is a an excellent move for the big 12 if it can land Nd without football...not sure its a good move for ND but that's another issue. Big 12 could add ND and nobody else or go with the byu football only route to pair with ND, than target 1-3 football school's to balance everything. Another option is Depaul and the chicago market to pair with ND but that just seems ?. I will state again, insane for the acc to not match this offer for ND without football. Nd seems like a better fit for the acc and i would guess they would accept it over the big 12 invite as long as football is still indy.

I have no say in this whatsoever but I think this will be a huge mistake. While I fully admit that Tx Tech is tied to UT, we already have a ND in this conference and I see no need to add another.

Now if ND comes as a full member then I have no problem with that but we all know that won't happen.

If the ACC is smart, they will "top" that offer by telling ND they only have to play 2 or 3 FB games each year vs ACC teams.

(06-20-2012 03:14 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Sounds like a bidding war between the Big Texas XII and the ACC.

Shouldn't be, but you are probably right.

Notre Dame without football brings nothing of value to the ACC other than another mouth to feed.

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn. When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I'm sorry but the Big East might be a "known" in basketball but 2 or 3 Catholic schools + UL + Uconn are the biggest name brands they've got left. The Catholic schools have tiny fanbases in comparison to the Big 12. The Big 12 is made up of major players across the board in college sports, not just basketball. I wouldn't be surprised if ND felt like they "identified" more with the Big 12 than the Big East now.

If ND goes to the Big 12 you can almost be guaranteed UL will be in tow.

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn. When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

Texas has a lot of Catholics and is growing. ND can still play in NY (Army/Navy), Philly (Navy), and Chicago is next door to South Bend.

(06-20-2012 03:51 PM)bluesox Wrote:  I think this is a an excellent move for the big 12 if it can land Nd without football...not sure its a good move for ND but that's another issue. Big 12 could add ND and nobody else or go with the byu football only route to pair with ND, than target 1-3 football school's to balance everything. Another option is Depaul and the chicago market to pair with ND but that just seems ?. I will state again, insane for the acc to not match this offer for ND without football. Nd seems like a better fit for the acc and i would guess they would accept it over the big 12 invite as long as football is still indy.

What is gained by having ND join without football? They already play about 4 games with ACC schools already.

The national ND fans are fans of their football team. I don't know how many of those t-shirt fans care that they have a basketball team.

(06-20-2012 03:53 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:44 PM)attackfrog Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:09 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:00 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  Are there 4 teams in the XII that ND would want to play? Texas and Oklahoma for sure, but after that? WVU? And again, what does non-FB membership in the XII offer ND that they don't get in the BE? What does ND do with men's soccer and lacrosse? I have no doubt that the XII has offered, but what is the realistic possibility that they will accept?

1) Better TV deal for their non-FB sports.
2) Better football scheduling agreements.
3) Better name brands schools to play in other sports.
4) Who cares about soccer and lacrosse? They can play anywhere.

It's pretty much common sense if you think about it. I would've expected ACC instead of Big 12 but I'd imagine the ACC wasn't interested at all in a partial membership. ND solves a lot of "issues" for the Big 12, namely WVU being on an island and offsetting BYU FB only if that's the plan.

If this is true I'd fully expect Louisville to Big 12 smoke to appear VERY soon.

All 4 of those answers are very weak. We dont have any idea how well an olympic sports only team would be paid in the Big 12. Id say most of the Big-12's TV value is in football. As for a football scheduling agreement---since when has Notre Dame needed that? Notre Dame can schedule anyone they want by just picking up a phone. Better name brands for other sports in the Big 12? Better than Georgetown? Better than St Johns? Better than UConn. When it comes to basketball some of the best "name" brands in the nation are in the Big East.

I tend to think Notre Dame is not going anywhere. They are not going to give up games in New York, Philly and Chicago to play in Stillwater and Norman.

I'm sorry but the Big East might be a "known" in basketball but those Catholic schools + UL + Uconn are the biggest name brands they've got left. The Catholic schools have tiny fanbases in comparison to the Big 12. The Big 12 is made up of major players across the board in college sports, not just basketball. I wouldn't be surprised if ND felt like they "identified" more with the Big 12 than the Big East now.

If ND goes to the Big 12 you can almost be guaranteed UL will be in tow.

Where will UL be in tow to? UL might sneak in whatever's left of the ACC, but the Big 12 door is closed to them most likely.

(06-20-2012 03:38 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  The ACC better see the value too! This would be real bad for the ACC.

ACC should consider a similar deal with ND for 6 fb games. It can even treate 6 fb-game member as a full member. Or ACC can take ND, GTown, St. Johns, and Nova as non-fb members.

(06-20-2012 03:52 PM)catdaddy_2402 Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:14 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  Sounds like a bidding war between the Big Texas XII and the ACC.

Shouldn't be, but you are probably right.

Notre Dame without football brings nothing of value to the ACC other than another mouth to feed.

LOL...you obviously are too provincial to understand.

(06-20-2012 03:50 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  

(06-20-2012 03:48 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  Lol at the Big East if this happens.

I think the Big East would split if ND leaves too.

Do the majority of them just join the A10?

I think the basketball schools found a new conference, and raid the A10.

Butler
DePaul
Georgetown
Marquette
Providence
St. John's
St. Louis
Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier