(06-21-2012 11:21 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  No response to my request to defend your statement about the overlap in conferences?

Don't expect a defense of the indefensible.

From the final 2011 BCS rankings:

Top SBC
35 Arkansas State
63 Louisiana

Bottom CUSA
115 Memphis
116 Tulane

Not even close.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/bcs

(06-21-2012 07:56 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 03:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:11 AM)LR Eagle Wrote:  USM, Tulsa, and ECU have performed over a period of time longer than one year. No one in the Sun Belt has except Troy.

And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

MTSU, ASU, TROY and maybe FAU

This is based on Quality not Population of City... Only say FAU because they have had recent success and bowl wins and are in the Florida hot bed for recruiting...CUSA already has 3 other Texas schools. Of course NT fans are going to dog me for this but this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'll leave it.

ASU has a good case based on the merits of their program. The others, it really depends on how you define "recent".


At the time of C-USA's expansion there were only two Texas teams in Texas (Rice & UTEP) for the 2013 season.

Placing FAU on this list is just a joke. Looks like you just couldn't dream up a 4th team for your arguement. FAU is basicly down the road from FIU (same Florida hot bed for recruiting that C-USA get from FIU) and they don't match up when looking at "recent" on the field success. In your opinion, C-USA should have passed on UNT because there was a Texas team in Houston and another in El Paso, and that is enough representation in Texas, but picking up FAU down the street from FIU would have been a better choice?

2011

Troy (3-9) lost to UNT 38-33 at home
MTSU (2-10) lost to UNT 59-7 in Denton
FAU (1-11) lost to UNT 31-17 in Denton

That's recent , but not very successful. I wouldn't label it quality either.

I love how we circle the waggons when an outsider comes in and posts some bs. The MUTS have no love for Troy, but when a UAB fan tries to talk some weak smack, Blue Raider folks step up to defend the Sun Belt's honor. This is one of the biggest differences between C-USA and the SBC...we are a family.

Seriously Joe? You are going to take one season, Troy's worst season ever, and use that to say we aren't a great program? Our history screams of success and the fact we boast a tradition of winning championships. Dont even try to dawg the Trojans, we are a juggernaut of the Sun Belt.

(06-21-2012 11:44 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  Seriously Joe? You are going to take one season, Troy's worst season ever, and use that to say we aren't a great program? Our history screams of success and the fact we boast a tradition of winning championships. Dont even try to dawg the Trojans, we are a juggernaut of the Sun Belt.

I'm not saying Troy isn't a stronge Sun Belt program, just pointing out that when looking at the most recent preformances, saying there were 3 or 4 better options for than UNT, for C-USA, just doesn't make sense. FAU? Really?

(06-21-2012 11:36 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 07:56 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 03:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

MTSU, ASU, TROY and maybe FAU

This is based on Quality not Population of City... Only say FAU because they have had recent success and bowl wins and are in the Florida hot bed for recruiting...CUSA already has 3 other Texas schools. Of course NT fans are going to dog me for this but this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'll leave it.

ASU has a good case based on the merits of their program. The others, it really depends on how you define "recent".


At the time of C-USA's expansion there were only two Texas teams in Texas (Rice & UTEP) for the 2013 season.

Placing FAU on this list is just a joke. Looks like you just couldn't dream up a 4th team for your arguement. FAU is basicly down the road from FIU (same Florida hot bed for recruiting that C-USA get from FIU) and they don't match up when looking at "recent" on the field success. In your opinion, C-USA should have passed on UNT because there was a Texas team in Houston and another in El Paso, and that is enough representation in Texas, but picking up FAU down the street from FIU would have been a better choice?

2011

Troy (3-9) lost to UNT 38-33 at home
MTSU (2-10) lost to UNT 59-7 in Denton
FAU (1-11) lost to UNT 31-17 in Denton

That's recent , but not very successful. I wouldn't label it quality either.

I think Middle Tennessee is the only school in the conference with a legitimate argument to have been picked over UNT when you consider all factors. Troy can certainly make the argument for football, but it pretty much stops right there, UNT has the better athletic program by nearly every other metric(outside of not having baseball) and is a better fit for the "C-USA model", FAU has no real argument over UNT aside from a bit more recent football success and they got what they needed in geography out of FIU. Middle Tennessee has the better overall athletic program, but the two are close, both fill recently voided C-USA geography, but UNT's geography is probably a bit more important to the conference. I'm not saying C-USA did or didn't make the right choice selecting UNT over MT, but I think we're the only program that the argument could have legitimately been made.

And I agree with BTH, last year's football results have little to no bearing on the situation, it's not like UNT set the world on fire last year at 5-7, they probably could have gone 2-10(having lost to all three of FAU, Troy and MT) and outside of MT having had a 10+ win season, UNT would have likely still been the pick.

(06-22-2012 08:32 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:36 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 07:56 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 03:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

MTSU, ASU, TROY and maybe FAU

This is based on Quality not Population of City... Only say FAU because they have had recent success and bowl wins and are in the Florida hot bed for recruiting...CUSA already has 3 other Texas schools. Of course NT fans are going to dog me for this but this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'll leave it.

ASU has a good case based on the merits of their program. The others, it really depends on how you define "recent".


At the time of C-USA's expansion there were only two Texas teams in Texas (Rice & UTEP) for the 2013 season.

Placing FAU on this list is just a joke. Looks like you just couldn't dream up a 4th team for your arguement. FAU is basicly down the road from FIU (same Florida hot bed for recruiting that C-USA get from FIU) and they don't match up when looking at "recent" on the field success. In your opinion, C-USA should have passed on UNT because there was a Texas team in Houston and another in El Paso, and that is enough representation in Texas, but picking up FAU down the street from FIU would have been a better choice?

2011

Troy (3-9) lost to UNT 38-33 at home
MTSU (2-10) lost to UNT 59-7 in Denton
FAU (1-11) lost to UNT 31-17 in Denton

That's recent , but not very successful. I wouldn't label it quality either.

I think Middle Tennessee is the only school in the conference with a legitimate argument to have been picked over UNT when you consider all factors. Troy can certainly make the argument for football, but it pretty much stops right there, UNT has the better athletic program by nearly every other metric(outside of not having baseball) and is a better fit for the "C-USA model", FAU has no real argument over UNT aside from a bit more recent football success and they got what they needed in geography out of FIU. Middle Tennessee has the better overall athletic program, but the two are close, both fill recently voided C-USA geography, but UNT's geography is probably a bit more important to the conference. I'm not saying C-USA did or didn't make the right choice selecting UNT over MT, but I think we're the only program that the argument could have legitimately been made.

And I agree with BTH, last year's football results have little to no bearing on the situation, it's not like UNT set the world on fire last year at 5-7, they probably could have gone 2-10(having lost to all three of FAU, Troy and MT) and outside of MT having had a 10+ win season, UNT would have likely still been the pick.

I think MTSU would have been a solid addition to C-USA too. After losing Memphis, I thought they were going to get in. Middle has had the top over-all athletics program in the Belt for some time now.

Another poster introduced the "recent success" arguement to justify a reason for C-USA to look at Troy, MTSU, and FAU ahead of UNT. I only pointed out that when looking at the most recent season, the arguement didn't hold up. None of this matters. It's over and done with, for now.

How many days til kickoff?

You shouldnt look at one season to judge recent success. Id say you should take the past three seasons atleast.

(06-22-2012 08:56 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  You shouldnt look at one season to judge recent success. Id say you should take the past three seasons atleast.

Ok. Even looking at the last three seasons, it's hard to make an arguement for FAU ahead of UNT, when FIU is just down the road. Both UNT and FAU have 10-26 over the past 3 seasons, but UNT leads the series 2-1, having won the last two meetings.

2011 FAU (1-11) UNT (5-7) UNT beat FAU 31-17
2010 FAU (4-8) UNT (3-9) UNT beat FAU 21-17
2009 FAU (5-7) UNT (2-10) FAU beat UNT 44-41

Why don't you call out Atlanta Trojan for claiming C-USA had 3 or 4 better Sun Belt options than UNT? Had he claimed 1 or 2, I might not have responded, but 4 is just crazy.

I find it amusing that half of this thread you guys try to claim 'parity' between the SBC & CUSA then talk about schools "getting in" to CUSA as a step up.

Quote:"I think MTSU would have been a solid addition to C-USA too. After losing Memphis, I thought they were going to get in." - Side show Joe.

(06-21-2012 11:36 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 07:56 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 03:26 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 11:37 AM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 10:30 AM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  And what's funny is Troy is bottom of the list of expansion candidates. So what does that tell you of C-USA's leadership? It tells me that quality is not as important as perceived market size.

I want no part of Conference USA, their leadership seems to be foolish.

This....But the Big East does the same.

If I were CUSA I would have went with 2 other schools before I went with FIU....And I would have went with 3-4 schools teams before I went with NT. But I guess since they lost the FLA market and a couple schools out of Texas they needed a void to fill there. They already have a presence in Bama, if you want to call it that.

What three or four schools would you have added to C-USA ahead of UNT?

MTSU, ASU, TROY and maybe FAU

This is based on Quality not Population of City... Only say FAU because they have had recent success and bowl wins and are in the Florida hot bed for recruiting...CUSA already has 3 other Texas schools. Of course NT fans are going to dog me for this but this is MY opinion. Take it or leave it.

I'll leave it.

ASU has a good case based on the merits of their program. The others, it really depends on how you define "recent".


At the time of C-USA's expansion there were only two Texas teams in Texas (Rice & UTEP) for the 2013 season.

Placing FAU on this list is just a joke. Looks like you just couldn't dream up a 4th team for your arguement. FAU is basicly down the road from FIU (same Florida hot bed for recruiting that C-USA get from FIU) and they don't match up when looking at "recent" on the field success. In your opinion, C-USA should have passed on UNT because there was a Texas team in Houston and another in El Paso, and that is enough representation in Texas, but picking up FAU down the street from FIU would have been a better choice?

2011

Troy (3-9) lost to UNT 38-33 at home
MTSU (2-10) lost to UNT 59-7 in Denton
FAU (1-11) lost to UNT 31-17 in Denton

That's recent , but not very successful. I wouldn't label it quality either.

One season (NT 5-7) does not make you quality...When Troy has FIVE conference championships FIVE bowls and only 2 losing season since 2004. MTSU has had several winning seasons and bowls, as well as having a VERY well rounded sports program as a whole. FAU has had success but not the last couple years...NT has not had a winning season since what 04?

(06-22-2012 08:32 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I think Middle Tennessee is the only school in the conference with a legitimate argument to have been picked over UNT when you consider all factors.

Geography.
UNT plugs the hole between Rice and Tulsa.
Marketmania
Top TV market.

End of the day, I'm not terribly concerned with what C-USA does.

Arkansas State has a Hattiesburg sized market. We aren't going anywhere but we can afford to pay our head coach more than anyone in CUSA other than ECU or Tulsa and Tulsa is only paying $50,000 more. Our basketball coach was above the C-USA median salary when his deal was signed, probably a little under it now. We've got a big multi-million dollar upgrade coming that I think will impress most anyone.

Louisiana has a Greenville sized market but has Hudspeth up around the C-USA median. The fans have clearly demonstrated that they are more than willing to support the program when the university gives them a good product.

Troy has to be the micro-market poster child with what they've done.

MTSU can grump about not getting in C-USA, that's fine with me, focus on that. You guys are in a market that will get you considered and clearly you don't have to dominate the Sun Belt to move up so worry about UNT getting in before you or over you or whatever.

Just understand that us small market people are going to fight for the bowl bids and recognition within the conference.

(06-22-2012 01:11 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 08:32 AM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  I think Middle Tennessee is the only school in the conference with a legitimate argument to have been picked over UNT when you consider all factors.

Geography.
UNT plugs the hole between Rice and Tulsa.
Marketmania
Top TV market.

End of the day, I'm not terribly concerned with what C-USA does.

Arkansas State has a Hattiesburg sized market. We aren't going anywhere but we can afford to pay our head coach more than anyone in CUSA other than ECU or Tulsa and Tulsa is only paying $50,000 more. Our basketball coach was above the C-USA median salary when his deal was signed, probably a little under it now. We've got a big multi-million dollar upgrade coming that I think will impress most anyone.

Louisiana has a Greenville sized market but has Hudspeth up around the C-USA median. The fans have clearly demonstrated that they are more than willing to support the program when the university gives them a good product.

Troy has to be the micro-market poster child with what they've done.

MTSU can grump about not getting in C-USA, that's fine with me, focus on that. You guys are in a market that will get you considered and clearly you don't have to dominate the Sun Belt to move up so worry about UNT getting in before you or over you or whatever.

Just understand that us small market people are going to fight for the bowl bids and recognition within the conference.

I said as much in the remainder of that post and I wasn't really grumbling about not getting selected so much as just making the point that Atlanta Trojan said that there were several more deserving than North Texas and that Middle Tennessee was the only one that I think you can even make an argument for.

(06-21-2012 11:09 PM)Dedsquirrl Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 07:21 PM)airtroop Wrote:  

(06-21-2012 01:22 AM)mbelcher987 Wrote:  "... You're a USA fan, your primary team has yet to even play a down against a D1 opponent. ..."

USA went on the road last year and gave NC State & Kent State about all they could handle... @ NC State, game in doubt until (formerly disciplined afterward-- FACT) ACC refs intentionally handed the "W" to NCST in the 3rd and the game @ Kent State came down to fizzling out on the last play of the game -- a potential game tying TD with zero secs on the clock deep in Kent's red zone. You did know that, right?

Besteda, I believe, slipped that first tackle and I thought he was heading to the endzone. We had so much momentum against Kent State, I don't think they stood a chance if it went to OT.

Too bad.
Kent State ended up being an ok MAC school last year.
4-4 in their conference.

Yea Kent was a very strange team last year. At the start of the year they were very bad but then got much better at the end. That game against USA had the team go up in a very large lead and then did the classic mistake of sitting on your laurels which is a bad idea against a team that at the time had only lost once in its history. I am still unsure which Kent team is the real Kent team (I hope it was the later team).

Well we will see what South is really made of this season. I expect Troy to demolish them, anything less is a dissapointment.

(06-22-2012 10:13 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  Well we will see what South is really made of this season. I expect Troy to demolish them, anything less is a dissapointment.

This is what was said about us last season, too.

No one is going to know what USA is really capable of for a few years, at least.

(06-22-2012 10:21 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 10:13 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  Well we will see what South is really made of this season. I expect Troy to demolish them, anything less is a dissapointment.

This is what was said about us last season, too.

No one is going to know what USA is really capable of for a few years, at least.

I hope Troy has only one loss all season.

But that one loss gives their fans nightmares and an uncontrollable urge to check under the bed for Jaguars.

(06-22-2012 10:42 PM)Dedsquirrl Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 10:21 PM)Tiguar Wrote:  

(06-22-2012 10:13 PM)Burn the Horse Wrote:  Well we will see what South is really made of this season. I expect Troy to demolish them, anything less is a dissapointment.

This is what was said about us last season, too.

No one is going to know what USA is really capable of for a few years, at least.

I hope Troy has only one loss all season.

But that one loss gives their fans nightmares and an uncontrollable urge to check under the bed for Jaguars.

nice.