(06-15-2012 11:30 AM)panama Wrote:  You cannot disagree with facts.

You CAN fix a school's sport with better facilities and a new coaching staff.

You CANNOT create a sizeable market where none exist.


You snidely refer to markets vs. product not realizing or caring that Statesboro is also a market, just not a large one. FBS Conferences are a business and that mean revenue producing in in football and basketball and that means TV dollars followed by ticket sales. You may not like that dynamic but that IS the dynamic.

It is easier to fix a sport by building facilities and hiring a new coach than it is to create a market. Stop taking your non-inclusion personally.

Not taking anything personally. Take another look at the conversation. Panthersville mentioned it's easier to have a better program in a major market and I disagreed with that based on UCF and USF. I don't think they can be considered successful programs on a whole. Then my questions was, where is there a successful PROGRAM in a large market. It was an honest question and statement.

Although it's obvious the conferences are adding media markets I will disagree with you and say that will change as well. Media markets won't be the only thing driving this moving forward. Do you watch football game based on the fact the teams are located in larger media markets? I would venture to say no. Like the rest of us, I would think you watch the games that are the most competive or have the most on the line or you have a personal interest in. Media market only take schools so far.

(06-15-2012 11:57 AM)Tennessee_Eagle Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 11:30 AM)panama Wrote:  You cannot disagree with facts.

You CAN fix a school's sport with better facilities and a new coaching staff.

You CANNOT create a sizeable market where none exist.


You snidely refer to markets vs. product not realizing or caring that Statesboro is also a market, just not a large one. FBS Conferences are a business and that mean revenue producing in in football and basketball and that means TV dollars followed by ticket sales. You may not like that dynamic but that IS the dynamic.

It is easier to fix a sport by building facilities and hiring a new coach than it is to create a market. Stop taking your non-inclusion personally.

Not taking anything personally. Take another look at the conversation. Panthersville mentioned it's easier to have a better program in a major market and I disagreed with that based on UCF and USF. I don't think they can be considered successful programs on a whole. Then my questions was, where is there a successful PROGRAM in a large market. It was an honest question and statement.

Although it's obvious the conferences are adding media markets I will disagree with you and say that will change as well. Media markets won't be the only thing driving this moving forward. Do you watch football game based on the fact the teams are located in larger media markets? I would venture to say no. Like the rest of us, I would think you watch the games that are the most competive or have the most on the line or you have a personal interest in. Media market only take schools so far.

Wasnt UCF ranked in the top 25 in 3 sports just the year before last. I know that USF made the Top 25 faster than any startup program ever.

Nobody is saying that media markets are the only thing but to say its going to change is preposterous unless we start trading in sticks and stones instead of dollars. This is not the first realignment cycle that has been about markets. They all have been for the last 15 to 20 years. USF has leveraged that now twice to go from FCS to CUSA to the Big East. The reason that no Southern big city urban public startup has ever played 5 years in FCS is because of realignment and markets. This goes all the way back to UAB in 1991. You're right, media market only takes you so far, But you presuppose that large markets and good football are mutually exclusive. Its an argument that plays to your advantage if it were true but the facts do not support it.

(06-15-2012 11:10 AM)Tennessee_Eagle Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 08:45 AM)Panthersville Wrote:  Conference championships in non-FBS conferences don't mean as much - in ANY sport. The fact remains that it is easier to build and maintain a better overall athletics program in a major market and in an FBS conference.

I disagree. I don't think you can say UCF and USF have successful athletic programs. Matter of fact, are there any athletic programs in major markets that are really successful? When I ask that, I am not just referring to football. Stanford maybe? Is Palo Alto considered a major market?

Palo Alto (Stanford) is in a 6+mio market. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose (Bay area market).

(06-15-2012 12:18 PM)panama Wrote:  Wasnt UCF ranked in the top 25 in 3 sports just the year before last. I know that USF made the Top 25 faster than any startup program ever.

Nobody is saying that media markets are the only thing but to say its going to change is preposterous unless we start trading in sticks and stones instead of dollars. This is not the first realignment cycle that has been about markets. They all have been for the last 15 to 20 years. USF has leveraged that now twice to go from FCS to CUSA to the Big East. The reason that no Southern big city urban public startup has ever played 5 years in FCS is because of realignment and markets. This goes all the way back to UAB in 1991. You're right, media market only takes you so far, But you presuppose that large markets and good football are mutually exclusive. Its an argument that plays to your advantage if it were true but the facts do not support it.

Just talking about programs as a whole in big markets. Not just football.

Plus, if a conference has all the larger media markets in their region wrapped up, why would an App or GS not be invited just because they are in a small market. Especially when they bring pretty strong programs with them. I would venture to guess most of the alums of these school end up at some point working in one of these large markets anyhow.

(06-15-2012 12:42 PM)GEAGLESJAG Wrote:  Palo Alto (Stanford) is in a 6+mio market. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose (Bay area market).

Thanks....so there's one. Always ranked as a top athletic program.

(06-15-2012 12:43 PM)Tennessee_Eagle Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 12:42 PM)GEAGLESJAG Wrote:  Palo Alto (Stanford) is in a 6+mio market. San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose (Bay area market).

Thanks....so there's one. Always ranked as a top athletic program.

USC, UCLA and Miami (FL) would also qualify. There are other successful programs in large areas as well. Not as big as L.A. and Miami but look at a school like NC State located in Raleigh, also a decent sized city. Louisville would fall into that category as well.

I do agree that the focus will eventually move away from TV markets a bit. Once the large market schools have established homes for the foreseeable future and the realignment at the top stops and the stability trickles down, I believe we'll see conferences seeking out established programs. The question is how far off is that?

(06-15-2012 12:42 PM)Tennessee_Eagle Wrote:  Plus, if a conference has all the larger media markets in their region wrapped up, why would an App or GS not be invited just because they are in a small market. Especially when they bring pretty strong programs with them. I would venture to guess most of the alums of these school end up at some point working in one of these large markets anyhow.

Of course it could happen (GS & ASU to FBS) and may well happen next year. However the WAC E thing will not work. Do not see NCAA approving 6 FCS schools to FBS when the league only has two teams. With the crazy realignment scene who knows what will happen next. I would like to be a fly on the wall of the FBS conferences when expansion/membership/realignment is discussed.

(06-15-2012 04:49 PM)RidgeRunner Wrote:  Of course it could happen (GS & ASU to FBS) and may well happen next year. However the WAC E thing will not work. Do not see NCAA approving 6 FCS schools to FBS when the league only has two teams. With the crazy realignment scene who knows what will happen next. I would like to be a fly on the wall of the FBS conferences when expansion/membership/realignment is discussed.

I think if 6 came forward and said they want to make the move, then the NCAA would approve it.

The NCAA has already shown a desire to keep the WAC alive, and with the NCAA recognizing that conference realignment is nowhere near done, the likelihood that the "east 6" would stay in the WAC is very slim.

So, the NCAA could approve it and in three years, all six are in the Sun Belt or CUSA, or wherever.

(06-15-2012 05:15 PM)TheRevSWT Wrote:  I think if 6 came forward and said they want to make the move, then the NCAA would approve it.

The NCAA has already shown a desire to keep the WAC alive, and with the NCAA recognizing that conference realignment is nowhere near done, the likelihood that the "east 6" would stay in the WAC is very slim.

So, the NCAA could approve it and in three years, all six are in the Sun Belt or CUSA, or wherever.

I agree that the NCAA would be willing to grant waivers and do what they can to keep the WAC alive. I do not think they want to see the conference fold or force Idaho/NMSU into either FBS independence or the FCS.

However, my doubts are in regards to six schools officially announcing that they want to move together. A lot of moving parts there and time is of the essence if the plan is to revive the WAC. Appalachian and Liberty are willing and ready to go. JMU and Delaware could do it but do they want to make the move now? Jacksonville State and Georgia Southern have FBS intentions and are working towards it, but are they financially ready to make an immediate move?

I would love to see those six institutions stick together and make a move but the logistics, along with potential travel questions, make me think it is unlikely.

(06-15-2012 05:27 PM)asumike83 Wrote:  I agree that the NCAA would be willing to grant waivers and do what they can to keep the WAC alive. I do not think they want to see the conference fold or force Idaho/NMSU into either FBS independence or the FCS.

However, my doubts are in regards to six schools officially announcing that they want to move together. A lot of moving parts there and time is of the essence if the plan is to revive the WAC. Appalachian and Liberty are willing and ready to go. JMU and Delaware could do it but do they want to make the move now? Jacksonville State and Georgia Southern have FBS intentions and are working towards it, but are they financially ready to make an immediate move?

I would love to see those six institutions stick together and make a move but the logistics, along with potential travel questions, make me think it is unlikely.

I feel the WAC deal is a fall back for App and GS if we can't make something else happen. I am still under the belief that App and GS are being marketed as a package deal which makes them both more attractive. Not to say one wouldn't leave without the other.

GS is not near as financially bad off as every one says. Is there room for improvement yes, but we could and would go now if an invite presents itself.

The east: Liberty, App St, JMU, Georgia Southern, Chattanooga, Coastal Carolina, Jacksonville St, Eastern Kentucky, & Tenn State University. That's my East. Someone out West build that side.

(06-15-2012 05:32 AM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  

(06-15-2012 01:22 AM)GoApps70 Wrote:  I fail to see App State saying that they are persuing the WAC, just that there is another thing mentioned.

Get over Hot, Hot, Hot - for an old parody, not the worst. Think our band needs to learn to play it and put it up on the video board. Even bad advertising has it's attributes. Makes me a little nuts listening to it.

Talk about Hot, Hot, Hot - Appalachian's first game will be on Fox against East Carolina 9/1/2012 at Noon, it was just announced.
That is going to be one hot game.
Hope the next week's game against Montana in Boone is for later in the day.

Is that a fox regional or just fox? I'd like to see that one.

The WAC should just put thier thumb in the eye of the NCAA and invite all comers. Eastern Kentucky would be interested.

Fox Sports Network. 9/1/2012 Noon - App State -vs- East Carolina
Am told national, but guess some local teams in the East could be put on if their game is at noon also, but would probably only be in the East.

Last time I went to Eastern Kentucky to see my Apps play the Colonels was years ago the week after App State had played in Hawaii. Windy as heck. Remember their punter punting and the wind took it 10 yards the wrong way. EKU actually made the FCS playoffs and had a home game last year.

Until GA St. wins some games on the field the FACTS about them bringing nothing but location (not a market which is very different) will continue.

In addition the post about championships in non-FBS conference meaning nothing is funny. SoCon baseball was ranked 7th in the nation, with 3 teams in the NCAA. Conferences are better at different sports, there is no brightline rule that FBS conferences are better in all sports. The Big Ten sucks in baseball.

(06-16-2012 07:06 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Until GA St. wins some games on the field the FACTS about them bringing nothing but location (not a market which is very different) will continue.

Don't you FCS butts stuck there forever give up and give it a rest. GSU made you did not! I would suggest you go on back to your FCS conference forum and haunt them with your stupidity.

(06-16-2012 08:29 PM)RidgeRunner Wrote:  Don't you FCS butts stuck there forever give up and give it a rest. GSU made you did not! I would suggest you go on back to your FCS conference forum and haunt them with your stupidity.

Calling others stupid, while putting your clumsy english skills on display.

You're such a winner.

(06-16-2012 09:52 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(06-16-2012 08:29 PM)RidgeRunner Wrote:  Don't you FCS butts stuck there forever give up and give it a rest. GSU made you did not! I would suggest you go on back to your FCS conference forum and haunt them with your stupidity.

Calling others stupid, while putting your clumsy english skills on display.

You're such a winner.

He does have a point...

(06-16-2012 09:52 PM)Glassonion Wrote:  

(06-16-2012 08:29 PM)RidgeRunner Wrote:  Don't you FCS butts stuck there forever give up and give it a rest. GSU made you did not! I would suggest you go on back to your FCS conference forum and haunt them with your stupidity.

Calling others stupid, while putting your clumsy english skills on display.

You're such a winner.

It may have been clumsy but at least I do not haunt sites that have nothing to do with my school. Oh, the e in English is always capitalized.

I used to have fun here.

(06-16-2012 08:29 PM)RidgeRunner Wrote:  

(06-16-2012 07:06 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Until GA St. wins some games on the field the FACTS about them bringing nothing but location (not a market which is very different) will continue.

Don't you FCS butts stuck there forever give up and give it a rest. GSU made you did not! I would suggest you go on back to your FCS conference forum and haunt them with your stupidity.

It's simple, win and those type of comments won't be true anymore until then that is reality.

(06-17-2012 08:40 AM)panama Wrote:  I used to have fun here.

Sorry guy but some of these forever FCS school fans and tee me off with there non-pertinent thread comments. They think it is cute to hijack a thread but it is not and just have a lot of problems letting it go.