(05-17-2012 08:35 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 07:17 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 02:01 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 01:25 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 01:08 PM)Ragu Wrote:  First of all FSU/Clemson would only leave if it went to 14 or 16.

Secondly even if it were only 12, there is no way that the divisions end up that way. They would split the Texas schools just like the ACC split the NC schools. Otherwise (once again), Clemson and FSU wouldn't go for KSU/KU/Iowa State.

Not flaming your post but would like clarifying support from reputable sources (not message boards):

Please provide sources (links). I've not read any info on this. I've only heard that FSU was #11, Clemson/Louisville/NotreDame as #12. No discussions of 14 or 16 (except from WVU homers).

I have not seen any articles on the potential divisions in the Big 12. Do you have links?

As for spliting the Texas schools, they did not do that when they had divisions before. Wouldn't the split of traditional rivalries of the Texas schools, the Oklahoma schools and the Frozen North schools (Kstate, Kansas, Iowa State) cause problems? Similar to the problems the ACC divisions cause?

This is stuff I have heard from insiders on a site I pay for and/or people who know the program. FSU/Clemson are not going to leave if it is 12 and those "Frozen North" schools are 3 of the other 4 in the division. I highly doubt that KSU/KU/Iowa St would be happy with leaving all the Texas/Oklahoma schools behind this time around.

You're kidding yourself if you believe that UT, TTU, OU and OSU will not be in the same division again.

Besides, the whole purpose of expansion beyond 12, which is your other point, is precisely to create an "eastern division" for WVU, FSU, Clemson. So those two other eastern schools plus two others will be in the same division. The two others will not be from amongst the 4 above and ISU has to go somewhere. So don't be surprised if its TCU and ISU completing the "eastern division".

Cheers,
Neil

Ug!

Ugh, is subjective, especially depending upon the other two "eastern" schools.

Right now, FSU fans are saying 'ugh' to BC, SU, and Wake. Can't say that I blame them in that regard.

Cheers,
Neil

That's a shame for FSU fans. I am excited to have Pitt and Syracuse (two of the most storied names in college football history) join the ACC.
BTW Carolina's first season (2 games) was in 1888. Both were played against Wake Forest. Wake won 'em both. Love to play the Deacs.

The BEST football game I EVER saw was the Pitt/Carolina game in Chapel Hill in 1979. Heels won 17-7.

(05-17-2012 01:08 PM)Ragu Wrote:  First of all FSU/Clemson would only leave if it went to 14 or 16.

That's what I used to think but now I'm not so sure. Although I do feel if we are looking like we are definitely leaving that other schools will be much more inclined to leave with us.

(05-17-2012 07:44 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  OK, we know FSU can make more revenue in the Big 12 - estimates range from $3M to $5M.

What combination of factors do YOU think would make FSU stay? go? If they stay, what changes need to happen in the ACC to keep them long-term?

What kind of estimate has FSU only making $3M more in the Big 12? Worded another way, what kind of estimate has the Big 12 not gaining any money by adding FSU (if $20M is accurate)?

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Rumor is the ACC isn't interested in letting schools keep significant percentages of their bowl payouts. Heck, let schools keep significant percentages of their NCAAT payouts, too. That would seem fair, although Duke would make less money from being a nationally relevant basketball school than VT being a nationally relevant football school, I think. But if this were an option it could help. I don't have any problem admitting FSU's been down and if this payout system were in place we'd only have ourselves to blame for any lack of revenue.

Add Notre Dame and increase the contract again. But I don't consider this a real option.

Change the divisions. I don't see this having any real impact on us staying unless paired with other factors.

Create a network with ESPN (presumably our only option) and hope that doesn't result in ESPN taking back too much of the $17M and then hope the network gets picked up early and brings in revenue that surpasses the difference in ESPN deals. For example, a $14-15M tv contract with a network that brings in $8M within 5 years. I would assume it would include a grant of rights like the Big Ten. Thing is, I don't see FSU agreeing to this if we're exploring other options.

What else is there that could realistically be done? Nothing off the top of my head.

------------------------------

I think it'll probably turn out to be the hybrid method where it's maybe the top 3 conference champs if ranked in the top 6, the highest ranked at-large, and then the next highest ranked at-large or two if there weren't enough conference champs. I actually like this model. If conference champs doesn't matter, why play a conference schedule?

If that happens it'd theoretically be easier to make the playoffs in the ACC by winning the conference but FSU might make more money in the Big 12 by having more conference members contribute to the playoff monies. Call it a push, pending how much playoff revenue turns out to be.

I'm sure VT would go along with the 'eat what you kill' in bowl money if that is what you want. FSU and Clemson have one each since expansion....so do Wake and GT. VT has 4 BCS games and 2 chic fil a and a gator bowl (all second place bowls).

P.S. You know that by the time you cut out BCS money everyone else is losing...cut out second place payout and it only gets worse.

FSU fans: please STOP believing everything that WVU is feeding you. They have an ulterior motive and they are NOT looking out for your best interests.

I bear the Seminoles no ill will, and it is my hope that your football program flourish both financially and on the field. If you get to the point where you are beating VT every year in the championship game, that just means we need to step it up (which I already know based on BCS bowls). Nobody wants you to fall behind Florida, et al.

However, as one who have many, many years of experience dealing with WVU fans I can tell you that any "inside information" coming from them should be questioned. They will tell you anything to secure an Eastern travel partner in the state of Florida. But reports from CBS (not WVU) state that the Big 12 will get either the same $20M/year for 12 teams (if FSU + one other join) or possibly $22M/year max - if the rights to the championship game have not already been sold (which no one but the Big 12 knows for sure). That's why I've stated $3M to $5M per year difference --> which amounts to 4% - 6% increase in total athletic department revenue.

Don't be seduced by $20M or even $22M - which sounds like a lot - look at it in terms of 4 to 6%, then ask yourself if THAT's big enough.

(05-17-2012 07:17 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 02:01 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 01:25 PM)HtownOrange Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 01:08 PM)Ragu Wrote:  

(05-17-2012 12:17 PM)4x4hokies Wrote:  Clemson has even less reason to leave the ACC. They are in a bus league when it comes to other sports. But lets assume they go too.

You end up with ISU, KSU, KU, WVU, CU, and FSU in a division.
So you are trading:
Clemson:Clemson
Maryland: WVU
BC: ISU
NCSU: KSU
Wake: KU
Syracuse: Baylor/OSU/TT/TCU
Miami: OU/UT
VT/UVA/Pitt/GT/UNC/Duke: Baylor/OSU/TT/TCU


So in the end you play GT even less and now you don't have Miami on the schedule either. I don't think the schedule is an upgrade. There may be some novelty to playing some of those teams the first time or two but year in and year out I'm not seeing the appeal of Baylor/TT/TCU/KSU/KU/ISU in particular.

First of all FSU/Clemson would only leave if it went to 14 or 16.

Secondly even if it were only 12, there is no way that the divisions end up that way. They would split the Texas schools just like the ACC split the NC schools. Otherwise (once again), Clemson and FSU wouldn't go for KSU/KU/Iowa State.

Not flaming your post but would like clarifying support from reputable sources (not message boards):

Please provide sources (links). I've not read any info on this. I've only heard that FSU was #11, Clemson/Louisville/NotreDame as #12. No discussions of 14 or 16 (except from WVU homers).

I have not seen any articles on the potential divisions in the Big 12. Do you have links?

As for spliting the Texas schools, they did not do that when they had divisions before. Wouldn't the split of traditional rivalries of the Texas schools, the Oklahoma schools and the Frozen North schools (Kstate, Kansas, Iowa State) cause problems? Similar to the problems the ACC divisions cause?

This is stuff I have heard from insiders on a site I pay for and/or people who know the program. FSU/Clemson are not going to leave if it is 12 and those "Frozen North" schools are 3 of the other 4 in the division. I highly doubt that KSU/KU/Iowa St would be happy with leaving all the Texas/Oklahoma schools behind this time around.

You're kidding yourself if you believe that UT, TTU, OU and OSU will not be in the same division again.

Besides, the whole purpose of expansion beyond 12, which is your other point, is precisely to create an "eastern division" for WVU, FSU, Clemson. So those two other eastern schools plus two others will be in the same division. The two others will not be from amongst the 4 above and ISU has to go somewhere. So don't be surprised if its TCU and ISU completing the "eastern division".

Cheers,
Neil

You are repeating what I have been saying . I said that not all KSU/KU/ISU would be in the East. TCU is the team I was figuring. If they went to 14, it would prob be FSU, Clemson, WVU, TCU, ISU, and the 2 other Eastern teams in the East Division.

(05-18-2012 09:06 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  FSU fans: please STOP believing everything that WVU is feeding you. They have an ulterior motive and they are NOT looking out for your best interests.

I bear the Seminoles no ill will, and it is my hope that your football program flourish both financially and on the field. If you get to the point where you are beating VT every year in the championship game, that just means we need to step it up (which I already know based on BCS bowls). Nobody wants you to fall behind Florida, et al.

However, as one who have many, many years of experience dealing with WVU fans I can tell you that any "inside information" coming from them should be questioned. They will tell you anything to secure an Eastern travel partner in the state of Florida. But reports from CBS (not WVU) state that the Big 12 will get either the same $20M/year for 12 teams (if FSU + one other join) or possibly $22M/year max - if the rights to the championship game have not already been sold (which no one but the Big 12 knows for sure). That's why I've stated $3M to $5M per year difference --> which amounts to 4% - 6% increase in total athletic department revenue.

Don't be seduced by $20M or even $22M - which sounds like a lot - look at it in terms of 4 to 6%, then ask yourself if THAT's big enough.

I think FSU fans are smart enough to come to their own conclusions. Nobody whose opinion I would listen to believes verbatim what The Dude or this Baylor guy are saying. I've never once claimed $30M as being legitimate but I don't see how we wouldn't up the value in any conference's current contract. I've seen what you're saying mentioned - the Big 12 not increasing from $20M unless they expand past 12 teams - but can you provide a link? Don't remember if I ever read an article about it. Just thinking about it reasonably, not increasing the value at all makes about as much sense as FSU and Clemson bringing the value to $30M. Fwiw, I believe the value would be much closer than $20M than $30M for these two. I fully believe VT and GT would add value to the Big 12's contract. There are a handful of schools in the ACC that would not.

Don't be seduced by $22M? You forgot the other revenue sources. I've actually pointed this out before in several other threads.

Just 6%? That's manipulating the figures. The ACC just increased revenue by 42%. That resulted in $5M. If the Big 12 increases 10%, that's also a $5M increase for FSU over the $17M in the ACC. Does that mean 42% is better than 10%? Absolutely not; $22M is better than $17M.