(05-08-2012 12:53 PM)97App Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 12:25 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 11:28 AM)97App Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 12:02 AM)mufanatehc Wrote:  You might want to cross off ODU. If they turn down CUSA, it would be because of costs. In your plan, the Sun Belt would have a near identical footprint to CUSA, but likely with less payout. You also have to contend with a lesser pedigree in academics, football, and especially basketball.

I'd also add that ODU has strong ties with George Mason, VCU and JMU. IMO that's also adding to the hesitance of immediately jumping to CUSA. I wonder if the CAA is trying to put something on the table that could hold them all together (an attempt to move the CAA from FCS to FBS?). In the end I see ODU in CUSA.

The CAA can't go FBS - too many of its members have no interest/ability.

That's why I believe ODU will end up in CUSA. I think there will be conversations within the CAA but in the end not enough will buy in.

Also I believe there is a NCAA rule forbidding the movement of entire conferences from one level to another. If they were really serious about moving up, they'd have to file for a waiver, but more than likely a lawsuit.

(05-08-2012 09:13 PM)mufanatehc Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 12:53 PM)97App Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 12:25 PM)Panthersville Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 11:28 AM)97App Wrote:  

(05-08-2012 12:02 AM)mufanatehc Wrote:  You might want to cross off ODU. If they turn down CUSA, it would be because of costs. In your plan, the Sun Belt would have a near identical footprint to CUSA, but likely with less payout. You also have to contend with a lesser pedigree in academics, football, and especially basketball.

I'd also add that ODU has strong ties with George Mason, VCU and JMU. IMO that's also adding to the hesitance of immediately jumping to CUSA. I wonder if the CAA is trying to put something on the table that could hold them all together (an attempt to move the CAA from FCS to FBS?). In the end I see ODU in CUSA.

The CAA can't go FBS - too many of its members have no interest/ability.

That's why I believe ODU will end up in CUSA. I think there will be conversations within the CAA but in the end not enough will buy in.

Also I believe there is a NCAA rule forbidding the movement of entire conferences from one level to another. If they were really serious about moving up, they'd have to file for a waiver, but more than likely a lawsuit.

Not that I'm aware of but second year of transition you have to play five countable home games (5 FBS or 1 FCS and 4 FBS). While existing FBS members can count a second year transition team as FBS, it is my understanding that there is a policy statement by the NCAA that says the rule only applies to FBS members, since second year transition teams are NOT FBS as yet they cannot utilize the rule.

A conference could in theory move up en masse but would basically have to suspend league play in the second year of transition to find four existing FBS members to come to their place to play.

Under the current rule (which I think is subject to some legal issues) a school cannot move to FBS (or from Division II to Division I) without an invitation to join an existing league.

(05-09-2012 08:32 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Not that I'm aware of but second year of transition you have to play five countable home games (5 FBS or 1 FCS and 4 FBS). While existing FBS members can count a second year transition team as FBS, it is my understanding that there is a policy statement by the NCAA that says the rule only applies to FBS members, since second year transition teams are NOT FBS as yet they cannot utilize the rule.

A conference could in theory move up en masse but would basically have to suspend league play in the second year of transition to find four existing FBS members to come to their place to play.

Under the current rule (which I think is subject to some legal issues) a school cannot move to FBS (or from Division II to Division I) without an invitation to join an existing league.

First let me say that IMO the liklihood of actually going this route is doubtful at best.

But, schools like App and JMU have put a ton of money into facilities that are above and beyond anything needed to be nationally competitive at the FCS level. If enough schools are left out and are willing to form a new conference or transition a current FCS conference (CAA), the only route available would be to petition the NCAA for a waiver and if denied let the courts decide. This would have to include other barriers to entry such as the 5 home game requirement during the second transitional year.

I don't think the NCAA cares about FCS to FBS moveups to be honest. From what I recall the impetus of the rule was the influx of DII to DI moveups simply trying to gain access to the basketball tourney money. That's the NCAA's cash cow and they will try to protect it at with all their means. FCS conference commissioners pushed through the FCS to FBS portion to slow their members from leaving. With all this current movement, the NCAA has shown that conference realignment is not something they are willing or able to dictate. FCS teams are already DI thus they already have access to the basketball tourney. The NCAA doesn't have a piece of the FBS post season so why put up a legal fight that, has a chance of losing at worst or creating a ton of negative press at best. Both results would involve huge legal fees to defend a rule that the I believe the NCAA doesn't really care to defend.

While the possibility of the CAA moving up, or the creation of a new FBS conference, always seems like a small possibility, I have a very hard time believing that the main schools in the mix to move up would take that on vs. letting things shake out for another year or two and seeing where they stand. If you're App, I think you'd rather gauge the Sun Belt's attitude a little later on (maybe when Southern is ready to move up as a conference mate) than struggle forming a new conference with Jax St., Liberty, etc. just for the sake of moving up. Once the dust settles from all the freaking out that's gone on over some of us getting call-ups that others deem premature, I doubt the drive to move up at any cost will be as strong.

And BTW, no offense meant to Jax St. or Liberty in using them as examples; it just looks like things are pointing to the Gamecocks' not being ready to make the move, and Liberty having too many extra-athletic concerns to make them a first-choice conference mate.

The NCAA is only what the schools tell it to be.

Money isn't the only issue in town. Power is a vital issue.

Right now the Division I Board of Directors is the 11 FBS leagues, 5 FCS, and 4 non-football. That gives FBS an 11-9 advantage in non-football issues. There are some FCS and non-football leagues that want the Board to reflect the membership so that FBS is out-numbered 11-20. That isn't likely to happen but the threat is out there.

Once the WAC shuts down the football business June 30, 2013 there will be a battle. Will the Board be 10 FBS, 5 FCS 4 non-football or will that vacant WAC spot be reallocated to either FCS or non-football making it 10-6-4 or 10-5-5? Either way the guaranteed majority for FBS (as long as they stick together) will go away.

How those struggles play out will determine the future. It is within the realm of possibility that FBS will push to go to a four division set-up with the new top division for all sports being the FBS conferences or at least requiring schools in the top division to sponsor 16 sports and 200 grants instead of today's 14 sports and 50% of the maximum allowed scholarships as the minimum.

(05-09-2012 09:54 AM)Pounce FTW Wrote:  While the possibility of the CAA moving up, or the creation of a new FBS conference, always seems like a small possibility, I have a very hard time believing that the main schools in the mix to move up would take that on vs. letting things shake out for another year or two and seeing where they stand. If you're App, I think you'd rather gauge the Sun Belt's attitude a little later on (maybe when Southern is ready to move up as a conference mate) than struggle forming a new conference with Jax St., Liberty, etc. just for the sake of moving up. Once the dust settles from all the freaking out that's gone on over some of us getting call-ups that others deem premature, I doubt the drive to move up at any cost will be as strong.

And BTW, no offense meant to Jax St. or Liberty in using them as examples; it just looks like things are pointing to the Gamecocks' not being ready to make the move, and Liberty having too many extra-athletic concerns to make them a first-choice conference mate.

I don't disagree at all. I think this option is at the end of the list and is probably less likely than simply staying FCS if we don't receive an invite from anyone. If it were to happen, I'd imagine that every school involved would have pretty much been told they're not going to be invited anytime soon from all the existing FBS conferences. Nobody is going to come to that conclusion within the next couple of years.