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Another look at Jax State
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 11:14 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  They're within the footprint. They're improving their facilities. They don't have a great market to sell. I see no reason not to consider them though. They'd be below Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Appalachian State, any Texas or Louisiana WAC left overs, but I'd place them above Liberty. I wouldn't dismiss them as a matter of course though. The enrollment for JSU is on the smallish size (I only count on campus figures by the way) as another downside but it is larger than at least one Belt school. I'd place JSU above Murray State, equal to Lamar, and below Missouri State if thinking about programs which are not the most obvious choices. I'd also place them above Kennesaw State as of now.

West Florida isn't even Division 1 for any sport and isn't a realistic possibility. They neither have football nor a place to play. They have zero history of support for any sport. West Florida is little different than Auburn-Montgomery (NAIA) or Alabama-Huntsville (D2).

UWF isn't going to do anything. Here's why. They are in Pensacola. Pensacola doesn't do 'big' things. Just an airport. That's all.

Pensacola has lots to sell. But they just won't. Perhaps its because they have a larger temporary population than Mobile. Perhaps its because they are a outlier of their state. Perhaps its because they have no influence on a state level.

And don't even get me started with Okaloosa County, a place with 200,000+ people without a 4 year university.
04-18-2012 11:30 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 11:14 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  They're within the footprint. They're improving their facilities. They don't have a great market to sell. I see no reason not to consider them though. They'd be below Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Appalachian State, any Texas or Louisiana WAC left overs, but I'd place them above Liberty. I wouldn't dismiss them as a matter of course though. The enrollment for JSU is on the smallish size (I only count on campus figures by the way) as another downside but it is larger than at least one Belt school. I'd place JSU above Murray State, equal to Lamar, and below Missouri State if thinking about programs which are not the most obvious choices. I'd also place them above Kennesaw State as of now.

West Florida isn't even Division 1 for any sport and isn't a realistic possibility. They neither have football nor a place to play. They have zero history of support for any sport. West Florida is little different than Auburn-Montgomery (NAIA) or Alabama-Huntsville (D2).

I would rather have a team in North West Florida that has not accomplished anything than a team in the middle of no where in Alabama that has not accomplished anything besides hosted high school basketball playoff games.

UNCC doesn't technically even have football yet either it only takes a few years to build a stadium.
04-18-2012 11:44 AM
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GoApps70 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Another look at Jax State
I am of the opinion that Appalachian State will accept an offer from either the Sun Belt, C-USA, MAC or the newly forming conference by the end of next month.
Someone mentioned our market. We are in the Charlotte market area and really close to the Winston-Salem/Greensboro market area, so we get feed off of both. Not such a terrible place to be. Especially if you turn on any Charlotte or Winston-Salem TV station and they give Boone's weather right along with those towns.
App State draws interest whenever we have been on a regional or national game. Our baseball team was ranked #26 last I saw. Had several All-America wrestlers recently; one winding up #3 in the nation, and I believe the other was #4 in another weight class.
For a ton of years, except last year, we have won at least 10 football wins per year. Come September 1st I expect us to add another by beating East Carolina, which we have a good almost two to one winning percentage against.
Benson may want to add the WAC instead, if so congrats to them. If some conference doesn't take us, too bad. We have a destiny that will not be stopped regardless.
We have won the conference Commissioners Cup designating the best male sports programs in the conference for something like 31 or the last 34 years. We don't move around conferences like a lot of schools have the tendancy to do, so where we go we will probably be for an extra long period of time. We make the most of what we have and are inventive when we have to be, just like we have been in football for many years.
We averaged over 28,000 for the regular season in football and have major plans to enlarge our stadium as soon as we go FBS. There is no down side to App State for a conference. A few might say market, but I disagree with that.
04-18-2012 12:07 PM
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Dedsquirrl Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 11:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-18-2012 11:14 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  They're within the footprint. They're improving their facilities. They don't have a great market to sell. I see no reason not to consider them though. They'd be below Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Appalachian State, any Texas or Louisiana WAC left overs, but I'd place them above Liberty. I wouldn't dismiss them as a matter of course though. The enrollment for JSU is on the smallish size (I only count on campus figures by the way) as another downside but it is larger than at least one Belt school. I'd place JSU above Murray State, equal to Lamar, and below Missouri State if thinking about programs which are not the most obvious choices. I'd also place them above Kennesaw State as of now.

West Florida isn't even Division 1 for any sport and isn't a realistic possibility. They neither have football nor a place to play. They have zero history of support for any sport. West Florida is little different than Auburn-Montgomery (NAIA) or Alabama-Huntsville (D2).

UWF isn't going to do anything. Here's why. They are in Pensacola. Pensacola doesn't do 'big' things. Just an airport. That's all.

Pensacola has lots to sell. But they just won't. Perhaps its because they have a larger temporary population than Mobile. Perhaps its because they are a outlier of their state. Perhaps its because they have no influence on a state level.

And don't even get me started with Okaloosa County, a place with 200,000+ people without a 4 year university.


A lot of the Pensacola Good Ol' Boy Network is starting to get old and die.
And the new Mayor has been pro growth.

The new Maritime Park is awesome.
The Blue Wahoos are playing AA ball in a beautiful new 5k seat park.

But yeah.
Pensacola hasn't given a damn about growth in past years.

UWF has a lot of potential though. The new BOT has been very aggressive with growing the campus and improving the "campus experience".
And UWF is its own entity.
It isn't the University of Florida at Pensacola. Or FSU Ensley Campus.
Unlike AUM or UAH or poor poor UAB, UWF's BOT is on their side.

Their latest study by the research committee said they suggest UWF add football and upgrade all sporting facilities to D1 standards.
It's linked on their website for those that are curious.
04-18-2012 12:15 PM
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Atlanta Trojan Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Another look at Jax State
NNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
04-18-2012 12:54 PM
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Atlanta Trojan Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Another look at Jax State
Ok. I say no obviously lol but let me explain why.....

1. Jax state is so far behind in Facilities than the rest of the Conference. Their Basketball arena is like Troys old GYM maybe worse.

2. Their Football stadium isnt up to par with the SBC either. Yes they have a nice press box but thats about as far as it goes. Its only seats some where around 22k.

3. They cant even win in football in the FCS. They never win championships and hardly ever make it far in playoffs.

4. Their budget is tiny. Smaller than anyone in the SBC.

5. Market is small. Smaller than Troy.

6. Their leadership have no plans to want to move up as it is.

7. No reason to have SIX FBS teams in Alabama. DUMB!
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 01:13 PM by Atlanta Trojan.)
04-18-2012 01:10 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Another look at Jax State
I think it would have to take a major raid by CUSA for Jacksonville State to get in, 4 or more schools would have to leave IMO.
04-18-2012 01:22 PM
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trojanblood Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 12:54 PM)Atlanta Trojan Wrote:  NNNNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
I second that NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! APP ST and GA. SOUTHERN...GOOD!! JAX ST. BAD!!!!
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 02:27 PM by trojanblood.)
04-18-2012 02:26 PM
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Ole Blue Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Another look at Jax State
Jax State would get a no vote from me if I was a SBC president.
04-18-2012 04:03 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 12:15 PM)Dedsquirrl Wrote:  
(04-18-2012 11:30 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-18-2012 11:14 AM)AlaIllTex Wrote:  They're within the footprint. They're improving their facilities. They don't have a great market to sell. I see no reason not to consider them though. They'd be below Georgia Southern, Charlotte, Appalachian State, any Texas or Louisiana WAC left overs, but I'd place them above Liberty. I wouldn't dismiss them as a matter of course though. The enrollment for JSU is on the smallish size (I only count on campus figures by the way) as another downside but it is larger than at least one Belt school. I'd place JSU above Murray State, equal to Lamar, and below Missouri State if thinking about programs which are not the most obvious choices. I'd also place them above Kennesaw State as of now.

West Florida isn't even Division 1 for any sport and isn't a realistic possibility. They neither have football nor a place to play. They have zero history of support for any sport. West Florida is little different than Auburn-Montgomery (NAIA) or Alabama-Huntsville (D2).

UWF isn't going to do anything. Here's why. They are in Pensacola. Pensacola doesn't do 'big' things. Just an airport. That's all.

Pensacola has lots to sell. But they just won't. Perhaps its because they have a larger temporary population than Mobile. Perhaps its because they are a outlier of their state. Perhaps its because they have no influence on a state level.

And don't even get me started with Okaloosa County, a place with 200,000+ people without a 4 year university.


A lot of the Pensacola Good Ol' Boy Network is starting to get old and die.
And the new Mayor has been pro growth.

The new Maritime Park is awesome.
The Blue Wahoos are playing AA ball in a beautiful new 5k seat park.

But yeah.
Pensacola hasn't given a damn about growth in past years.

UWF has a lot of potential though. The new BOT has been very aggressive with growing the campus and improving the "campus experience".
And UWF is its own entity.
It isn't the University of Florida at Pensacola. Or FSU Ensley Campus.
Unlike AUM or UAH or poor poor UAB, UWF's BOT is on their side.

Their latest study by the research committee said they suggest UWF add football and upgrade all sporting facilities to D1 standards.
It's linked on their website for those that are curious.

I'm aware of the study at UWF. But given the fact that nothing seems to happen quickly in Pensacola, I'm not holding my breath there. Its just an attitude in Pensacola. They don't have a stadium. They don't have a large endowment. They have no history whatsoever of community support, unlike schools with existing D-1 basketball and baseball, who can at least leverage off of marketing/community support towards a new football program.

UWF also doesn't market itself regionally. Few in Mobile or Baldwin County (650k+ residents and in the same media market) are even aware of the existance of UWF. South Alabama has blown the doors off of UWF in that regard. USA's student body draws heavily from the Mississippi Gulf Coast and from NW Florida, giving USA a much larger regional profile.

But back to Jax State. Another issue with Jax State is that they are in an economically and population declining area (Gadsden/Anniston) and that will result in declining resources as time moves forward. There are no television stations that primarily or even secondarily focus on Anniston/Gadsden/Jacksonville (other than 2 religious channels). Few in Birmingham care about Jax State, and a FBS Jax State would get less coverage than even UAB.

In short, Jacksonville State, while a fine place, has very limited upside as far as resources and is in a media staved area. At least Louisiana Tech gets decent coverage in Shreveport. And App State gets secondary coverage in Western NC. Jax State....virtually nothing. It isn't their fault. It just is. And that's why Jax State is really not a good choice.
04-18-2012 04:30 PM
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Burn the Horse Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Another look at Jax State
Jax State won't get invited because Troy and South won't allow it...period. That's just the way it is.

I'm actually a bit surprised we haven't seen any Gamecock fans coming over here since this thread started.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 04:47 PM by Burn the Horse.)
04-18-2012 04:46 PM
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Dedsquirrl Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Another look at Jax State
Quote:I'm aware of the study at UWF. But given the fact that nothing seems to happen quickly in Pensacola, I'm not holding my breath there. Its just an attitude in Pensacola. They don't have a stadium. They don't have a large endowment. They have no history whatsoever of community support, unlike schools with existing D-1 basketball and baseball, who can at least leverage off of marketing/community support towards a new football program.

I hear you there.
When I was graduating from HS in 94, I didn't even consider UWF because it was just so...... blah.

I grew up in Pensacola.
It has always felt like Mobile was driving in the left lane with the top down and a hot chick riding shotgun flashing truckers.
While Pensacola puttered along in the right lane with their blinker on and gas cap missing........
04-18-2012 05:06 PM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 05:06 PM)Dedsquirrl Wrote:  
Quote:I'm aware of the study at UWF. But given the fact that nothing seems to happen quickly in Pensacola, I'm not holding my breath there. Its just an attitude in Pensacola. They don't have a stadium. They don't have a large endowment. They have no history whatsoever of community support, unlike schools with existing D-1 basketball and baseball, who can at least leverage off of marketing/community support towards a new football program.

I hear you there.
When I was graduating from HS in 94, I didn't even consider UWF because it was just so...... blah.

I grew up in Pensacola.
It has always felt like Mobile was driving in the left lane with the top down and a hot chick riding shotgun flashing truckers.
While Pensacola puttered along in the right lane with their blinker on and gas cap missing........

I hear you. When we moved to Mobile, it was not uncommon to refer to P'cola as Mobile's backyard. A very nice backyard. It was a place to go play on the weekend. The beaches are great. I have had a lot of fun between Pensacola to Ft. Walton Beach about 35 milesdown the road.
04-18-2012 05:24 PM
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AlaIllTex Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Another look at Jax State
Jax State is a realistic possibility but not the best choice. Troy, if I recall correctly, couldn't find a date (conference) for years even playing in a league (correct me if Im wrong) with Central Connecticut and Youngstown State in Olympic sports before getting called up because the Sun Belt needed bodies. Troy put their time in the quest to be FBS and it paid off. Jacksonville State could've done the same and would've been admitted along with Troy had they had the same forsight. Nevertheless, Jacksonville State is willing and able if needed. And that's a good thing. There doesn't look like they'll be needed but I don't think dismissing them as a matter of course is wise. We might just need them.

Regarding West Florida. The Southern will need members soon. East Tennessee wants back in, which will create an opening in the Atlantic Sun. The A Sun will take them. It's not even close to what Troy went through to compete at D1 either. If UWF isn't ready now when they'll have as good of an opportunity as one could hope for to start the process, I think that's a bit too long of a project to even consider.
04-18-2012 06:16 PM
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Hilltopper2K Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Another look at Jax State
Maybe they are not ripe yet for the picking.

Let them upgrade thier facilities over the next 5 years and show a commitment to having a larger budget.

I like that they are a close drive for several teams.

Even though they are not a big market they do have several towns there close together (Gadsden / Attalla to the northwest, Anniston to the south, and Piedmont to the northeast, all within 15-20 miles). There also looks like there is a military base close by. I think that does give them some potential to build a nice fan base there.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2012 06:38 PM by Hilltopper2K.)
04-18-2012 06:38 PM
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Burn the Horse Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Another look at Jax State
How many times do I have to say this, Jax State will not be invited to join the Sun Belt. Yall keep discussing it if you want, but you're wasting your time and giving their fanbase false hope...nothing more.
04-18-2012 07:24 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-18-2012 06:38 PM)Hilltopper2K Wrote:  Maybe they are not ripe yet for the picking.

Let them upgrade thier facilities over the next 5 years and show a commitment to having a larger budget.

I like that they are a close drive for several teams.

Even though they are not a big market they do have several towns there close together (Gadsden / Attalla to the northwest, Anniston to the south, and Piedmont to the northeast, all within 15-20 miles). There also looks like there is a military base close by. I think that does give them some potential to build a nice fan base there.

Jax State is in between two urban centers with no growth in the last 32 years. I'm not seeing much growth in the next couple of years either. They have no primary or even secondary television stations. They are 2 hours from Alabama AND Auburn and 1 hour from UAB. There are 5 other FBS schools in the state of Alabama. None of this is Jacksonville State's fault. But no market, no population growth and bordering other programs. Sure, they could be a mid range Sun Belt team as far as the Sun Belt is today. But I don't see them having the oxygen to help the Sun Belt grow into a conference with a better national or even regional profile. That's my issue there.

Western Kentucky, Troy, and Arkansas State are in rural areas, but they are the only program in their regions. They've got oxygen to grow. Jacksonville State....I just don't see it.
04-18-2012 07:27 PM
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Burn the Horse Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Another look at Jax State
rep points to you Tom, I've been saying the same thing for a while now.
04-18-2012 07:29 PM
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Usajags Online
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Post: #39
RE: Another look at Jax State
In case everyone hasn't figured it out, Troy fan is scared to death of Jax St and downs them every chance they get. I personally think JSU would be a good addition, actually think they would have been better then GaSt. They come with a fan base, a winning program and some history.

Out of all the times that JSU has been mentioned it is only Troy fan that downs the idea.
04-19-2012 07:16 AM
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Burn the Horse Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Another look at Jax State
(04-19-2012 07:16 AM)Usajags Wrote:  In case everyone hasn't figured it out, Troy fan is scared to death of Jax St and downs them every chance they get. I personally think JSU would be a good addition, actually think they would have been better then GaSt. They come with a fan base, a winning program and some history.

Out of all the times that JSU has been mentioned it is only Troy fan that downs the idea.

Scared? Why on Earth would we be scared of them? Perhaps you should just worry about your own fanbase and stop trying to tell others negative things about ours.
04-19-2012 07:42 AM
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