Even if in the remote chance there was a merger between C-USA and Sun Belt bringing in any additional I-AA programs is non starter. What would be the point of that? I'll cut ECU some slack. They have BCS caliber fan base and have many signature wins not just a couple like most of us have.

Rather than go all out I've felt Benson's expansion plans were a failure from the get go. He should have been then and still should be hounding ECU, UAB, Southern Miss and Marshall to join the Belt and stopping at 14 unless Tulane wants to come too.

Let the MWC have the leftovers in Texas and North Texas could decide which side of the Mississippi they want to play most of their games on. At the end of the day none of this nonsense matters. No one wants to be associated with the Belt because of the perception. Performance on the field is irrelevant right now (i.e. we've beaten C-USA head to head two or three years straight). And speaking of perception one of the biggest enablers of that perception is just as much reality as anything. It's our school's inability to build larger fan bases. We've all done much better in recent years but not nearly enough for the TV execs to take notice, and that's why no one is going to want to merge with the Belt.

(03-27-2012 07:26 PM)trojans664 Wrote:  I for one am a little bored with some of the ECU and other CUSA fans thought process that they matter much, if any, more than any Belt team. Here's a scenario. Say ECU and, name that Sunbelt team, had a game scheduled in 2012. For the sake of argument we'll say the Belt team wins. I'd bet that if the game were played on a Saturday, the perceived upset wouldn't even make a single ESPN highlight. Nobody would care except for the fans of the individual schools and the conference banner folks.

Here's another. Imagine your school just scored a home game with ECU sometime in the future. Does the average fan of your team really care? Most of us here have had much more attractive home games than ECU. I definitely have a healthy respect for ECU and other CUSA schools, but the reality now is that if one of US beats one of THEM, it's really not a big deal anymore.

Aww that's too bad you feel that way. My feelings are very hurt.

Forget a merger with the CUSA. That league is just about done, like the WAC. UTEP and TULSA head to the MWC and that leaves them with 6. ECU wants to be indy, let them go that way. Take the other 5, invite them into the SBC.

That would give us:

FIU
FAU
WKU
MTSU
UAB
Troy
USA
USM
StAte
ULM
UL
Tulane
Marshall
La Tech

That gives us 14, or let Marshall go to MAC and let LaTech not go to the SBC and we are at 12.

Rename the thing, makes the fan bases of CUSA teams happy and be done with it.

You're welcome to take this stuff to the Conference Realignment board: http://csnbbs.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=637

Play in the sandbox over there....

(03-27-2012 08:02 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 07:26 PM)trojans664 Wrote:  I for one am a little bored with some of the ECU and other CUSA fans thought process that they matter much, if any, more than any Belt team. Here's a scenario. Say ECU and, name that Sunbelt team, had a game scheduled in 2012. For the sake of argument we'll say the Belt team wins. I'd bet that if the game were played on a Saturday, the perceived upset wouldn't even make a single ESPN highlight. Nobody would care except for the fans of the individual schools and the conference banner folks.

Here's another. Imagine your school just scored a home game with ECU sometime in the future. Does the average fan of your team really care? Most of us here have had much more attractive home games than ECU. I definitely have a healthy respect for ECU and other CUSA schools, but the reality now is that if one of US beats one of THEM, it's really not a big deal anymore.

Aww that's too bad you feel that way. My feelings are very hurt.

Was not meant to hurt your feeling sweetheart. Just reality.

(03-27-2012 07:26 PM)trojans664 Wrote:  I for one am a little bored with some of the ECU and other CUSA fans thought process that they matter much, if any, more than any Belt team. Here's a scenario. Say ECU and, name that Sunbelt team, had a game scheduled in 2012. For the sake of argument we'll say the Belt team wins. I'd bet that if the game were played on a Saturday, the perceived upset wouldn't even make a single ESPN highlight. Nobody would care except for the fans of the individual schools and the conference banner folks.

Here's another. Imagine your school just scored a home game with ECU sometime in the future. Does the average fan of your team really care? Most of us here have had much more attractive home games than ECU. I definitely have a healthy respect for ECU and other CUSA schools, but the reality now is that if one of US beats one of THEM, it's really not a big deal anymore.

ECU fans are just waiting for any exit door to open. Their best bet is going independent because there is no combination left that will really be satisfactory to them.

ECU and their fan base likes to tout how much separation they have over us lowly Sun Belt programs. Let's be real here, the Big East turned down ECU. They don't want what they have. They would rather swallow their pride and bring in a terrible Memphis football team, then bring in ECU. This is not separation...this is reality. What your alumni and boosters think of themselves is not in line with what reality is. A little pragmatism would do the entire CUSA some good. We are all also-rans. We are all the gum stuck at the bottom of the BCS' shoe. Until we realize this and work together...we...will...never...prosper.

(03-27-2012 08:18 PM)trojans664 Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:02 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 07:26 PM)trojans664 Wrote:  I for one am a little bored with some of the ECU and other CUSA fans thought process that they matter much, if any, more than any Belt team. Here's a scenario. Say ECU and, name that Sunbelt team, had a game scheduled in 2012. For the sake of argument we'll say the Belt team wins. I'd bet that if the game were played on a Saturday, the perceived upset wouldn't even make a single ESPN highlight. Nobody would care except for the fans of the individual schools and the conference banner folks.

Here's another. Imagine your school just scored a home game with ECU sometime in the future. Does the average fan of your team really care? Most of us here have had much more attractive home games than ECU. I definitely have a healthy respect for ECU and other CUSA schools, but the reality now is that if one of US beats one of THEM, it's really not a big deal anymore.

Aww that's too bad you feel that way. My feelings are very hurt.

Was not meant to hurt your feeling sweetheart. Just reality.

Well you don't really have to worry about seeing us coming to your stadium. I do enjoy the Sun-Belt annually kicking Memphis' teeth in though.

(03-27-2012 08:24 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  Well you don't really have to worry about seeing us coming to your stadium. I do enjoy the Sun-Belt annually kicking Memphis' teeth in though.

Sun Belt teams play SEC and ACC teams in their stadiums...I'm fairly certain ECU is a possibility.

This won't likely happen. Conference USA found contractual freedoms it never had by getting out of ESPN's grip.

Although ESPN is the most watched period, not every game in every area of the country could get broadcast in the way Fox Sports/FSN and CBS can accomplish.

This Sun Belt/CUSA alliance wouldn't happen in the form being described here.

(03-27-2012 08:54 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  This won't likely happen. Conference USA found contractual freedoms it never had by getting out of ESPN's grip.

Although ESPN is the most watched period, not every game in every area of the country could get broadcast in the way Fox Sports/FSN and CBS can accomplish.

This Sun Belt/CUSA alliance wouldn't happen in the form being described here.

So the CUSA remnants take 3 or 4 Sun Belt teams instead of a more broad merger. That leaves a separate Sun Belt still in existence that adds some combination of Charlotte, Georgia State, UTSA, LaTech, Texas State that could provide filler games for the southern region for essentially nothing. If the "CUSA remnants plus" don't like what is offered for tv deals then the SBC will certainly be willing to take a slot with no pay. It is hard to underbid zero.

The best way to get control of the situation is for a broader merger that wraps up nearly every remaining Southern FBS program into one single package. If a network wants Southern football then the only choices would be SEC/ACC/CUSA or one of the scattered Big East schools.

No guarantees but it definitely reduces the number of parties available for the networks to deal with. Very Alliance-like except that it also makes geographic sense which the Alliance does not and reduces travel costs.

There are specific individual benefits for each school involved also but a lot of people want to cover their ears on that.

Nonetheless....your remnants are very likely to end up with some of these programs that you consider "lesser". The only question is how many....and how will the SBC you leave behind do?

(03-27-2012 07:44 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Even if in the remote chance there was a merger between C-USA and Sun Belt bringing in any additional I-AA programs is non starter. What would be the point of that? I'll cut ECU some slack. They have BCS caliber fan base and have many signature wins not just a couple like most of us have.

Rather than go all out I've felt Benson's expansion plans were a failure from the get go. He should have been then and still should be hounding ECU, UAB, Southern Miss and Marshall to join the Belt and stopping at 14 unless Tulane wants to come too.

Let the MWC have the leftovers in Texas and North Texas could decide which side of the Mississippi they want to play most of their games on. At the end of the day none of this nonsense matters. No one wants to be associated with the Belt because of the perception. Performance on the field is irrelevant right now (i.e. we've beaten C-USA head to head two or three years straight). And speaking of perception one of the biggest enablers of that perception is just as much reality as anything. It's our school's inability to build larger fan bases. We've all done much better in recent years but not nearly enough for the TV execs to take notice, and that's why no one is going to want to merge with the Belt.

But here is the thing all you fine conference USA hopeful's such as yourself fail to realize. WHO THE FLIP CARES ABOUT PERCEPTION.

The perception of message board users does not do anything. I dare you to go to ESPN and find the conference USA blog, it doesn't exist. There are single teams that have blogs and those single teams get more media than all 12 teams in conference USA Big East members included.

Notice you have heard nothing from TV networks saying positive things about the alliance and all the BS has come from athletic directors and presidents whose job it is to promote their school. No matter what conference USA fans want you to believe all Non AQ conferences are literally treated as one conference perception wise. Please go find me a SEC fan who doesn't spend all day on a message board that can even name the teams in conference USA.

(03-27-2012 08:54 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  This won't likely happen. Conference USA found contractual freedoms it never had by getting out of ESPN's grip.

Although ESPN is the most watched period, not every game in every area of the country could get broadcast in the way Fox Sports/FSN and CBS can accomplish.

This Sun Belt/CUSA alliance wouldn't happen in the form being described here.

I respect you as a nice guy but no one takes anything you say about conference USA serious anymore. Your the only UCF fan in the world who wanted your school to turn down the Big East invite.

(03-27-2012 09:37 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:54 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  This won't likely happen. Conference USA found contractual freedoms it never had by getting out of ESPN's grip.

Although ESPN is the most watched period, not every game in every area of the country could get broadcast in the way Fox Sports/FSN and CBS can accomplish.

This Sun Belt/CUSA alliance wouldn't happen in the form being described here.

So the CUSA remnants take 3 or 4 Sun Belt teams instead of a more broad merger. That leaves a separate Sun Belt still in existence that adds some combination of Charlotte, Georgia State, UTSA, LaTech, Texas State that could provide filler games for the southern region for essentially nothing. If the "CUSA remnants plus" don't like what is offered for tv deals then the SBC will certainly be willing to take a slot with no pay. It is hard to underbid zero.

The best way to get control of the situation is for a broader merger that wraps up nearly every remaining Southern FBS program into one single package. If a network wants Southern football then the only choices would be SEC/ACC/CUSA or one of the scattered Big East schools.

No guarantees but it definitely reduces the number of parties available for the networks to deal with. Very Alliance-like except that it also makes geographic sense which the Alliance does not and reduces travel costs.

There are specific individual benefits for each school involved also but a lot of people want to cover their ears on that.

Nonetheless....your remnants are very likely to end up with some of these programs that you consider "lesser". The only question is how many....and how will the SBC you leave behind do?

Their fans have to much pride to admit it but UNT, FIU, and FAU are great markets but it's going to water down conference USA because in no way are those our best teams and it arguably strengthen the Sun Belt athletically depending on who we add. I hate La Tech but they probably have more wins than all of those three teams combined. And UNCC will give us a big boost towards becoming a two bid league in basketball with Middle and WKU.

Unless they take five teams or more the Sun Belt is going to remain intact and probably improve with any expansion scenarios.

(03-27-2012 09:44 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 07:44 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Even if in the remote chance there was a merger between C-USA and Sun Belt bringing in any additional I-AA programs is non starter. What would be the point of that? I'll cut ECU some slack. They have BCS caliber fan base and have many signature wins not just a couple like most of us have.

Rather than go all out I've felt Benson's expansion plans were a failure from the get go. He should have been then and still should be hounding ECU, UAB, Southern Miss and Marshall to join the Belt and stopping at 14 unless Tulane wants to come too.

Let the MWC have the leftovers in Texas and North Texas could decide which side of the Mississippi they want to play most of their games on. At the end of the day none of this nonsense matters. No one wants to be associated with the Belt because of the perception. Performance on the field is irrelevant right now (i.e. we've beaten C-USA head to head two or three years straight). And speaking of perception one of the biggest enablers of that perception is just as much reality as anything. It's our school's inability to build larger fan bases. We've all done much better in recent years but not nearly enough for the TV execs to take notice, and that's why no one is going to want to merge with the Belt.

But here is the thing all you fine conference USA hopeful's such as yourself fail to realize. WHO THE FLIP CARES ABOUT PERCEPTION.

If there are two ugly girls left at the dance and only one ugly guy to dance with.....it still feels mighty good to be part of the ugliest couple.

What really matters here are the best available options to get your fans into the stands....and to get outside visitors into the stands. (I said "available" options)

I think a broad-based combination is the best for all involved. USA/UAB/Troy get attendance boosts from being in the same division and UAB cuts travel costs. FIU/FAU stay together. The WKU/MTSU/Troy matchups remain. Tulsa gets into Dallas and San Antonio and gets another decent road trip to stAte and some additional attention in NW Arkansas. USM and Tech finally get together. USM, Tulsa, LaTech can expect stAte to travel well to them and vice-versa. ULL/Tech/Tulane is appealing. UNT/UTEP get each other and other Texas teams which helps local interest and recruiting. Marshall and ECU get the Florida connection they want plus WKU and MTSU closer.

There are a lot of positives unless you don't want to see them.

(03-27-2012 09:37 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  

(03-27-2012 08:54 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  This won't likely happen. Conference USA found contractual freedoms it never had by getting out of ESPN's grip.

Although ESPN is the most watched period, not every game in every area of the country could get broadcast in the way Fox Sports/FSN and CBS can accomplish.

This Sun Belt/CUSA alliance wouldn't happen in the form being described here.

So the CUSA remnants take 3 or 4 Sun Belt teams instead of a more broad merger. That leaves a separate Sun Belt still in existence that adds some combination of Charlotte, Georgia State, UTSA, LaTech, Texas State that could provide filler games for the southern region for essentially nothing. If the "CUSA remnants plus" don't like what is offered for tv deals then the SBC will certainly be willing to take a slot with no pay. It is hard to underbid zero.

The best way to get control of the situation is for a broader merger that wraps up nearly every remaining Southern FBS program into one single package. If a network wants Southern football then the only choices would be SEC/ACC/CUSA or one of the scattered Big East schools.

No guarantees but it definitely reduces the number of parties available for the networks to deal with. Very Alliance-like except that it also makes geographic sense which the Alliance does not and reduces travel costs.

There are specific individual benefits for each school involved also but a lot of people want to cover their ears on that.

Nonetheless....your remnants are very likely to end up with some of these programs that you consider "lesser". The only question is how many....and how will the SBC you leave behind do?

Current CUSA: Rice, Tulane, Tulsa, UTEP, ECU, Marshall, USM, UAB

New CUSA: 8 + North Texas, Florida International, Arkansas State, and Louisiana

Those four programs, and FAU, are programs that, from what I can tell, are doing the most from the Sun Belt, to get moving in a more dramatic direction (if there are any other programs I've missed in the football/bball sense, I apologize).

Remaining Sun Belt: Denver, Arkansas-Little Rock, South Alabama, Troy, Louisiana-Monroe, FAU, Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky

I think the remaining Sun Belt would likely draw Louisiana Tech, Texas-San Antonio, Georgia State, and possibly coerce any combination of the following: (Old Dominion, Appalachian State, College of Charleston, or UNC Charlotte) to get to 10 at least. Sun Belt has survived without a conference championship game, and it can certainly actually improve its audience numbers. I think it has the potential to rebuild into a much better conference than it is now.

Question is does the commish jump on board with adding schools before CUSA realizes that it can lock in some nice 'TV market chips' to barter with on the negotiating table?

Alright I am going to say it. If something similar to this happened it is not a merger but a poaching. Also they would not take all of the Belt teams only the best ones (best depending on what they are looking for). It is not really a merger if one conference gets to keep its name and all of its teams and the other does not.

Im begining to think the Psych ward is missing a few patients tonight.

1. Unless one of Marshall, ECU, S. Miss, UAB gets an in an AQ they will be in the same confrece.

2. That conference is not going to be the Sun Belt.

3. There are only a few schools in the SB that have a chance at moving, the F_Us, North Texas, Middle Tenn. and later down the road South Alabama. You may not like it but thats the truth.

4. No one in the SB will turn an invite down if one is extended to them.

it's amazing how cocky Marshall fans are now that they have that C-USA logo on their field. Forget the fact that the brand has been massively diminished. You guys were good in the MAC, probably should have stayed there. Atleast yall won trophies back then.

Yall want to talk big? Renew the series with Troy and see how yall fair, I'd love to put yall in your place. We may be a small market team but we actually win titles.

(03-27-2012 10:35 PM)HerdZoned Wrote:  Im begining to think the Psych ward is missing a few patients tonight.

1. Unless one of Marshall, ECU, S. Miss, UAB gets an in an AQ they will be in the same confrece.

2. That conference is not going to be the Sun Belt.

3. There are only a few schools in the SB that have a chance at moving, the F_Us, North Texas, Middle Tenn. and later down the road South Alabama. You may not like it but thats the truth.

4. No one in the SB will turn an invite down if one is extended to them.

north texas turned down the WAC several times. of which the sunbelt is now ahead of. also the sunbelt is ahead of the MAC. if not ahead at least on par. and if I'm not mistaken the sunbelt has a winning record over C-USA the last couple years. outside of USM, Arkansas state could have beat every other team in the current conference in football. like it or not C-USA has 2 things going for it. USM's on field production, and ECU's attendance. this is not a lot of separation between the belt and c-usa. if we put things in a vacuum say the sunbelt adds 2 teams from USA. USM, and 1 of either tulsa or ECU and the belt becomes #1 non AQ conference over night. to put any separation between the Belt and USA they would have to add stAte, UL,WKU( rebuilds some basketball rep),MTSU(see WKU), and both florida schools. but this scenario gives you a competitor for tv contracts. and what kind of dumb business decision would it be to slightly improve your self but allow a competitor to survive when you had a chance to eliminate. why not just add the sunbelt (NOT ULM) to C-USA. great rivralrys, great travel, great TV contracts... now someone point out a down side?


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