Our fan base isn't dumb, they are just never going to view Sun-Belt schools as our peers. We don't view most of C-USA as our peers, and from a financial and support standpoint most aren't. Maybe it's arrogant or conceited, but that's the reality of our fan base, and Holland knows that. He knows that there are a huge number of ECU fans who are pissed off and can't accept that just because of market alone we are getting left behind. If he compounds that decision by starting a new league with a bunch of schools that we don't want to be associated with that's going to drive people away. ECU has been built on never accepting no for an answer and never just accepting our so called place. There would be a lot of fans who would believe joining that type of league you propose would be the end of a 30 year quest to play football at the highest level. I know you'll take this as us not knowing our place or accepting what we are, and it's probably true, but it's also what has allowed us to get where we have gotten. The second we ever settle and accept our lot will probably be the day I stop loving our University.

(03-17-2012 11:55 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 11:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  You guys are starting to scare me. You are actually putting thought and expectations, true expectations and common sense into your post about realignment.

I think the idea of ECU opting out and basically starting their own conference would be a good option for them. They could hand pick the teams they wanted to be

ECU
USM
Tulsa
Troy
App State
Jax State
Marshall
James Madison

There's eight. A few more potential would be

USA-Did you really think I was going to leave us out of this.
Tulane
UAB-For basketball reasons only.
The Twins=FIU&FAU
WKU-For basketball, football is still new and gaining speed
MT-Basketball, football has it's moments


That leaves Tulsa out on a major island all by itself, they may get left out of my example.

Do you really think that's who ECU would pick if we were out hand picking a start up league?

Then who would ECU hand pick??? You're not taking a team from the ACC or SEC, that pretty much just leaves the schools that I mentioned. Also, the top 8 schools averaged more then 20k per home game, have a history and would bring traveling fans into any of those stadiums.

I didn't say this was the answer, I was just projecting a possible ECU picked conference. You present your teams and we'll see who you come up with.

(03-17-2012 06:25 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 11:55 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 11:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  You guys are starting to scare me. You are actually putting thought and expectations, true expectations and common sense into your post about realignment.

I think the idea of ECU opting out and basically starting their own conference would be a good option for them. They could hand pick the teams they wanted to be

ECU
USM
Tulsa
Troy
App State
Jax State
Marshall
James Madison

There's eight. A few more potential would be

USA-Did you really think I was going to leave us out of this.
Tulane
UAB-For basketball reasons only.
The Twins=FIU&FAU
WKU-For basketball, football is still new and gaining speed
MT-Basketball, football has it's moments


That leaves Tulsa out on a major island all by itself, they may get left out of my example.

Do you really think that's who ECU would pick if we were out hand picking a start up league?

Then who would ECU hand pick??? You're not taking a team from the ACC or SEC, that pretty much just leaves the schools that I mentioned. Also, the top 8 schools averaged more then 20k per home game, have a history and would bring traveling fans into any of those stadiums.

I didn't say this was the answer, I was just projecting a possible ECU picked conference. You present your teams and we'll see who you come up with.

There is no group you'd ever get any sort of consensus on for a new league, which is part of the reason it won't happen. I'm in the camp that long term I'd rather be in a mid-atlantic league and be with schools like ODU, JMU, Delaware, Marshall, maybe Ohio, something like that. Then you would have some who would rather be in the south east. Then you have the rest who are so disgusted by the idea of either that they just yell and scream about how we are better than all those teams. Pretty much why we'll go with the merger as long as it lasts, because there's no regional peer group that our fan base would tolerate.

(03-17-2012 06:47 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 06:25 PM)Usajags Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 11:55 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 11:18 AM)Usajags Wrote:  You guys are starting to scare me. You are actually putting thought and expectations, true expectations and common sense into your post about realignment.

I think the idea of ECU opting out and basically starting their own conference would be a good option for them. They could hand pick the teams they wanted to be

ECU
USM
Tulsa
Troy
App State
Jax State
Marshall
James Madison

There's eight. A few more potential would be

USA-Did you really think I was going to leave us out of this.
Tulane
UAB-For basketball reasons only.
The Twins=FIU&FAU
WKU-For basketball, football is still new and gaining speed
MT-Basketball, football has it's moments


That leaves Tulsa out on a major island all by itself, they may get left out of my example.

Do you really think that's who ECU would pick if we were out hand picking a start up league?

Then who would ECU hand pick??? You're not taking a team from the ACC or SEC, that pretty much just leaves the schools that I mentioned. Also, the top 8 schools averaged more then 20k per home game, have a history and would bring traveling fans into any of those stadiums.

I didn't say this was the answer, I was just projecting a possible ECU picked conference. You present your teams and we'll see who you come up with.

There is no group you'd ever get any sort of consensus on for a new league, which is part of the reason it won't happen. I'm in the camp that long term I'd rather be in a mid-atlantic league and be with schools like ODU, JMU, Delaware, Marshall, maybe Ohio, something like that. Then you would have some who would rather be in the south east. Then you have the rest who are so disgusted by the idea of either that they just yell and scream about how we are better than all those teams. Pretty much why we'll go with the merger as long as it lasts, because there's no regional peer group that our fan base would tolerate.

Actually what you are saying is that there is no group of schools willing to associate with ECU your fan base believes is worthy of association but they will take sticking with the dregs of a half gutted league and a gutted league by default even though your AD and president seem to be noticing the Alliance ain't what the promoters are making it to be. When the leadership all but says we are signing the agreement to keep this from being even more awful than it is, that speaks volumes.

The best thing for ECU would be for Boise to decide it is just rediculous for them to be in the Big East and ECU gets the invite. I know ECU was politicing hard for that a few months ago. Unfortunately for you guys, you got left out.

I think a lot of the CUSA fan bases, and I'm sure the MWC fan bases as well, that are going to get disgruntled with this "Alliance" concept. It will never last, AQ status will go away, and some order will be restored to college football. It will just take a couple more years to get there.

(03-17-2012 08:36 PM)Usajags Wrote:  It will just take a couple more years to get there.

Begun, the realignment wars have.

(03-17-2012 06:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Actually what you are saying is that there is no group of schools willing to associate with ECU your fan base believes is worthy of association but they will take sticking with the dregs of a half gutted league and a gutted league by default even though your AD and president seem to be noticing the Alliance ain't what the promoters are making it to be. When the leadership all but says we are signing the agreement to keep this from being even more awful than it is, that speaks volumes.

Yeah that's pretty much it in a harsh way of putting it. I don't however think they are as negative on the alliance as you think they are, but they are obviously trying everything they can to find something better. Better is not any sort of new semi-regional non-AQ league mixed with Sun-Belt/C-USA schools. I think an eventual mid-Atlantic non-AQ league can be formed when schools like ODU, JMU, Charlotte, App, and Delaware move up, but we are looking at 10-15 years from now before that's reasonable. That is something I could see Holland and ECU being potentially interested in, but probably not until most or all of those schools have made it up to FBS and established themselves enough for it to not look like ECU was joining a glorified FCS league. Until something like that becomes reasonable or a better league changes their mind we will just kinda ride out the alliance thing. As for your pop shots at C-USA it still has 2 of our longest standing rivals, USM and Marshall, a really solid team in Tulsa, and the rest of the teams offer either solid basketball history or great baseball history (which is a big deal to ECU to be in a power baseball conference). I'd rather stick with the "dregs" we have been associated then align with new "dregs."

How in the world do you consider the all FCS teams you picked to be better then what I picked???

(03-18-2012 07:51 AM)Usajags Wrote:  How in the world do you consider the all FCS teams you picked to be better then what I picked???

Today they aren't really. Kinda why I said that was a 10-15 year down the road vision at the earliest. Also if ECU is going to be a part of forming some kind of new league that for the short term is going to be a step down one of the things that is imperative is that it save big time on travel costs and have real potential regional rivalries. Location wise we are much more of a mid-atlantic school than a deep south school. We are less than 5 hours from DC, and like 7 from Philly, while we are like 8-10 hours from Birmingham. If we were going to form an ideal regional conference it would be located on the east coast. All the schools I listed I believe are going to be FBS in the near future, and all but Charlotte currently average at or above 20k in attendance at the FCS level. ODU has sold out every game they have played and has a 3k waiting list for season tickets. JMU and App average 25k, and Delaware is around that number as well. The problem with the league you proposed is it's not really saving us much of anything in travel costs and it's not going to have a TV deal worth the travel. The teams I mention probably aren't going to bring a lot in terms of TV either, but it would have multiple bus trip games making up for the lack of TV value at the start.

OK, I gotcha now. I can agree with what you said.

(03-18-2012 10:01 AM)Usajags Wrote:  OK, I gotcha now. I can agree with what you said.

By the way your suggestion long term is not a bad idea for the schools like USM, UAB, and Tulane if the merger thing doesn't work out. We are just in a far different region than they are, and we never really fit geography wise with C-USA, even in it's original form. It's just always been the best available option and had a lot of the other independent schools that we used to play in the 80's and 90's. I have enjoyed the debate and discussion and I like to hear different opinions as long as they aren't attacks. For the most part the posts in this thread haven't been and it's been fun to hear different ideas and proposals.

CUSA was always a large geographical conference, it once stretched from Army to UTEP to USF. That's really not much bigger then the Big East and Big 12 are now.

For you guys, I think the Big 12 will still add teams, from the Big East and you guys will get your invite. It should really help your basketball team, but for football, I don't think it will be much of a step in competition or prestige. There just isn't much left to the Big East in football.

(03-18-2012 10:19 AM)Usajags Wrote:  CUSA was always a large geographical conference, it once stretched from Army to UTEP to USF. That's really not much bigger then the Big East and Big 12 are now.

For you guys, I think the Big 12 will still add teams, from the Big East and you guys will get your invite. It should really help your basketball team, but for football, I don't think it will be much of a step in competition or prestige. There just isn't much left to the Big East in football.

Yeah the BE we wanted to join doesn't exist anymore. We were desperate to get in the league when it had VT and WVU, 2 teams we have had longstanding relationships with. Now that them, Pitt, and Cuse are long gone the only things the BE is really offering are more money and better basketball. It has basically molded back into the original C-USA, just more nonsensical from a geography standpoint. One little correction though UTEP was never in the league when Army was. Original C-USA was a little better for us from a travel standpoint but still far from ideal. All current conferences are going to be a burden from a travel perspective so we just kinda have to make due until there is a shift in what drives conference expansion. I think there will be a trend toward streaming and "al la carte" programming eventually, which I hope will shift realignment from "potential" viewers to actual viewers.

I think Army and TCU were in at that same time. Not quite as far as UTEP, but still in Texas.

You wonder how long the current BE will last as they are now. How many people out there really care about BE football around the country. It really has been a rather bad product over the years and now even worse with there best teams gone.

All this conference movement will dissolve after couple of years and many will go back into a regional conference. The SEC, ACC, Big 10 and PAC 12 being the exceptions.

(03-17-2012 06:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ....they will take sticking with the dregs of a half gutted league and a gutted league by default even though your AD and president seem to be noticing the Alliance ain't what the promoters are making it to be. When the leadership all but says we are signing the agreement to keep this from being even more awful than it is, that speaks volumes.

Much like Ron Paul's foreign policy stance, everybody denounces the 3 Conference Solution, but it will eventually be the state of affairs one day because all other options will be proven to be wrong.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=554300

(03-19-2012 08:57 AM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  

(03-17-2012 06:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  ....they will take sticking with the dregs of a half gutted league and a gutted league by default even though your AD and president seem to be noticing the Alliance ain't what the promoters are making it to be. When the leadership all but says we are signing the agreement to keep this from being even more awful than it is, that speaks volumes.

Much like Ron Paul's foreign policy stance, everybody denounces the 3 Conference Solution, but it will eventually be the state of affairs one day because all other options will be proven to be wrong.

http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=554300

Trust me my idea has a much better chance of happening then this 3 conference idea you keep trying to push. ECU isn't going to be a part of that league. If we go regional we are going to go really regional not half ass regional. There's no benefit to that league for us. No bus trip games, no TV money, no added geographic rivals, and honestly not that much travel cost savings over what we already spend. There's not a single positive to it for East Carolina. We'd join the MAC before we joined that.

Football at the highest level ?

ECU at Memphis State

(03-19-2012 10:18 AM)KAjunRaider Wrote:  Football at the highest level ?

ECU at Memphis State

Who is that a reflection on? Go see if you can find a picture of Dowdy Ficklin looking like that. Memphis football is not good, tell me something I don't already know. When I say we have been striving the play football at the highest level for 30 years it isn't striving to play football against Memphis. I doubt after this season we ever play Memphis again unless it's a bowl game (and fat chance of that ever happening).

(03-19-2012 09:06 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  We'd join the MAC before we joined that.

http://southerncollegesports.com/footbal..._map2.html

Outline both the MAC(Don't forget UMASS) and my proposed SBC with ECU included in both.

Very little difference in geographic footprint and neither league has many busing opportunities for ECU.

Unless you guys go Indy for football and put all of your other sports in the Colonial or the Big South, your arguments against the 3 Conference Solution do not hold water.

(03-19-2012 12:15 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  

(03-19-2012 09:06 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  We'd join the MAC before we joined that.

http://southerncollegesports.com/footbal..._map2.html

Outline both the MAC(Don't forget UMASS) and my proposed SBC with ECU included in both.

Very little difference in geographic footprint and neither league has many busing opportunities for ECU.

Unless you guys go Indy for football and put all of your other sports in the Colonial or the Big South, your arguments against the 3 Conference Solution do not hold water.

My argument against it is simple none of us would want that league. Also the MAC would likely take us FB only which would certainly be a better option than that league. The "3 conference solution" is taking 3 current conferences and making all 3 weaker. It's not going to happen. If ECU was going to form a new league based on being regional we'd form an east coast league with a lot of current FCS teams who will be FBS very soon. Teams like ODU, JMU, App, Charlotte, Delaware, maybe Georgia State. I don't think we are forming this anytime soon, probably 10-15 years from now at the earliest and only if things continue to break wrong for ECU. You'll argue that's a weaker league than your proposal, and today it is, but 15 years from now who knows. The teams I propose is a bus league or close to it for ECU, which would make up for the massive step back in TV revenue. The SBC part of that 3 conference solution is not saving ECU nearly enough travel costs for what kind of drop in TV deal that league would be looking at. Realistically how much per team do you think that league could get? 200-300k maybe?