Quote:Sorry, I wasn't going to post in this thread...but I think Memphis would contribute to the basketball money pool. Considering that our basketball program makes enough $$ to pay for itself and several other programs.

True, but I believe TopCoog was making his point under the assumption that the league is not going to split.

Quote:There must be some downside I'm missing on this, but so far I don't see it.

How competitive would the academies be? I realize that right now Navy is good but it's different playing WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse instead of Delaware, Tulane, and whoever. An Army/Navy affiliation looks real nice written down on paper, but so did Temple for football only with Nova covering Philly for basketball. Yeah it would definitely be successful if the Owls (or the Midshipmen and Black Knights in this case) were competitive, but otherwise... it ain't. And the academies have much higher hurdles than the Owls do when it comes to playing at the highest level of football.

Here is a quote from the Navy AD when asked 'wouldn't now be a great time to join the Big East?'

Quote:Right now we feel comfortable as an independent. It is possible down the road that conference affiliation could become an option, however, we can dictate our scheduling which has been a major boost to positioning ourselves to win. Secondly, the television revenues that we generate are kept by the Academy. Thirdly, because of last year's showing in the Houston Bowl, I'm confident that if there're open slots at the end of the year and we are bowl eligible, we should find an opportunity. And four, the revenues that we generate through our football program are kept in their entirety by the Academy not shared with other schools. Therefore, as we build the program today, it's best that we remain with the flexibility we have, but I don't discount the very real possibility of conference affiliation down the road.

While I don't think he's actually ran through the potential revenues of being in the Big East (I would imagine it's more than what Navy makes alone), this year again proves that Navy doesn't need conference affiliation to get bowl games.

Quote:How competitive would the academies be? I realize that right now Navy is good but it's different playing WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse instead of Delaware, Tulane, and whoever. An Army/Navy affiliation looks real nice written down on paper, but so did Temple for football only with Nova covering Philly for basketball. Yeah it would definitely be successful if the Owls (or the Midshipmen and Black Knights in this case) were competitive, but otherwise... it ain't. And the academies have much higher hurdles than the Owls do when it comes to playing at the highest level of football.

Here is a quote from the Navy AD when asked 'wouldn't now be a great time to join the Big East?'

--- I really disagree with that....who cares if Army goes 0-5 in the BE.....the academies are adding to the league because of what they offer to the TV networks and to the bowls....if its not working then we'll just cut them loose when we split from the leauge...Army and Navy have the kind of fan support that Temple/Nova can't dream off

-- Look....we need a 9th school....this is a much better fit right now then ECU....why shouldn't we give this a try

-- Good find on the quote from the Navy AD...when did he say this?? It sounds to me like we wasn't speaking about the partial membership the BE may be offering....under this plan Navy would still have the flexabiltiy to schedule how it wants....navy could go 0-5 or 1-4 in BE play and still go to a bowl


Jackson

Quote:...when did he say this??

Not incredibly recently. Maybe a couple months ago.

<a href='http://www.navysports.com/faq/displayFAQ.asp?FAQ_CATEGORY_ID=99' target='_blank'>http://www.navysports.com/faq/displayFAQ.a..._CATEGORY_ID=99</a>

That's the link for the Navy AD taking questions on Conference Affiliation. He even addresses a partial affiliation schedule question, about CUSA though, not the Big East.

Quote:navy could go 0-5 or 1-4 in BE play and still go to a bowl

You see, I wouldn't have any problem with Navy/Army in the Big East, but I'm not sure that they want it. The AD seems to be almost Notre Dame-determined when it comes to his repeated assurance that Independence is where Navy wants to be. And he had stated "the revenues that we generate through our football program are kept in their entirety by the Academy not shared with other schools." Now I don't think he could say that they make more money as an Indy than they would in the Big East with a straight face, but he's the AD, not me, and he probably has access to numbers that I don't.

I really, really like Navy and wouldn't mind them being in the league, but I would rather see us split first before we add any new teams.

I wouldn't mind Army and Navy, moreso Army then Navy. I wouldn't worry about them not being competitive. If Navy went 1-4 in conference but turned around and went 5-1 or 6-1 OOC they would go bowling, likely to a non-Affiliated Big East bowl, giving the Big East more bowl teams.

nflsucks Wrote:True, but I believe TopCoog was making his point under the assumption that the league is not going to split.


How competitive would the academies be? I realize that right now Navy is good but it's different playing WVU, Pitt, and Syracuse instead of Delaware, Tulane, and whoever.

I forgot to factor in the TC sense of reality...

...Tulane did stomp Navy this year! :) But here's Navy's schedule. I'll highlight the impressive wins.

9/4 Duke W 27-12
9/11 Northeastern W 28-24
9/18 at Tulsa W 29-0 (ouch! for CUSA)
9/25 Vanderbilt W 29-26
10/2 at Air Force W 24-21
10/16 Notre Dame L 27-9
10/23 Rice W 14-13 (another ouch! for CUSA)
10/30 Delaware W 34-20
11/6 at Tulane L 42-10 (this one is better for CUSA...but not as good as the two losses were bad)
11/20 Rutgers W 54-21
12/4 Army

But there are still plenty of teams that would not be 8-2 with that schedule.

Quote:You see, I wouldn't have any problem with Navy/Army in the Big East, but I'm not sure that they want it. The AD seems to be almost Notre Dame-determined when it comes to his repeated assurance that Independence is where Navy wants to be. And he had stated "the revenues that we generate through our football program are kept in their entirety by the Academy not shared with other schools." Now I don't think he could say that they make more money as an Indy than they would in the Big East with a straight face, but he's the AD, not me, and he probably has access to numbers that I don't.

-- That may be true...I don't know if the academies would go for it or not.....but I think they would definatly be making more money in the BE....their attendance would be up with playing a regional schedule...Navy would have a guranteed sell out every team they played WVU for example....they would have the opportunity to play for better bowls, be on TV more and I'm assuming get some kind of % of the BCS dollars....I guess we'll have to wait and see


Jackson

99Tiger Wrote:I forgot to factor in the TC sense of reality...

...Tulane did stomp Navy this year!&nbsp; :) But here's Navy's schedule.&nbsp; I'll highlight the impressive wins.

9/4 Duke W 27-12
9/11 Northeastern W 28-24
9/18 at Tulsa W 29-0 (ouch! for CUSA)
9/25 Vanderbilt W 29-26
10/2 at Air Force W 24-21
10/16 Notre Dame L 27-9
10/23 Rice W 14-13 (another ouch! for CUSA)
10/30 Delaware W 34-20
11/6 at Tulane L 42-10 (this one is better for CUSA...but not as good as the two losses were bad)
11/20 Rutgers W 54-21
12/4 Army

But there are still plenty of teams that would not be 8-2 with that schedule.

Hey, a win is a win. I mean, look at Memphis OOC, it isn't exactly a gauntlet either, their only impressive win was a conference win against a fading Southern Miss squad. Neither was Utah's, their biggest win was Texas A&M. That's why it doesn't make sense to criticize Navy's schedule.

This relationship between Army/Navy and BE need not to be view as a conference member relationship but rather as mutual scheduling benefit both party. Where as an incentive for Army/Navy might be<span style='color:blue'> Big East bowl access </span>(maybe another mutual benefit, more bowls spots for BE-Army/Navy ) and <span style='color:blue'>some TV contract revenue</span>. Which mean future split between BE football/basketball doesn’t have any bearing on the relationship between Army/Navy and BE football agreement (hope it will happen). If it is easier to think Army/Navy as “partial members

SO#1:

A nice idea, but I think you are overestimating ND's willingness to leave the other Catholic, non-foootball schools.

By staying with them, ND gets a nice home for all their non-football sports with 7 other like-minded private, Catholic schools, including two new ones (Marquette & Depaul) right in ND's backyard. The rest are all northeasern schools.

Those schools also get to keep the Big East name and continue to play their conference tournament at MSG.

Murph1, the value of a conference is not in the name but in quality of its member. A better exposure will result in better recruits and better competition which lead to better TV rating. We will have more money than Catholic schools to invest in facilities which again lead to better recruit.

Tournament at MSG with out Syracuse, Connecticut and Pittsburgh - who's care?

:rolleyes:

Quote:Tournament at MSG with out Syracuse, Connecticut and Pittsburgh - who's care?

If the Manhattan Stadium gets built in NYC we can both co-exist peacefully in New York come March.

Dibs on the new stadium.

Jackson1011 Wrote:

Quote:Looking at it from Army's point of view one wonders whether they would want to take the pounding every year. Of the three service academies they seem the least committed.

-- I guess that is the beauty of only playing 5 BE games (counting the one against Navy)....Army can schedule the Duke's and Vandy's of the world for the remaining part of their schedule

-- I would say that Army has improved under Bobby Ross this year...although they only won 2 games they were competitive in several of there losses

Quote:And what counts as a majority?

-- Sorry Wacobearcat...I missed that part of the question...I honestly don't know what is a majority for a vote like this....I would think 5 or 6 yes votes out of 8 would be needed but again I don't know

-- Just off the top of my head I would think Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia and Rutgers would vote yes because playing Army/Navy is part of the football history of those schools....WVU Coach Rod has been very vocal about his desire for Navy to be included into the BE...pretty sure he even wanted Navy over USF

-- I would think Uconn would vote yes because Army is a regional game that the Huskies play anyway...and I can't see them not vote the same way SU and Rutgers do

-- As for Louisville, UC and USF....I have no idea....anyone have any idea as to how these schools would vote if the situation came up


Jackson

No

SO#1 Wrote:Football Schedule (Assuming 12 games annual)
Army – 4 EAC teams (2 homes /2 away) and remaining 8 for their traditional/OOC games
Navy – 4 other EAC teams (2 homes /2 away) and remaining 8 for their traditional/OOC games
Notre Dame - 4 EAC teams (2 homes /2 away) and remaining 8 for their traditional/OOC games
8 EAC teams guarantee (4 homes /4 away) and 4 EAC teams get ND games

Wait a second. This doesn't add up. You left out some games I think. 11 teams .....

Army - 4 EAC teams (2 home/2 away)
Navy - 4 EAC teams (2 home/2 away)
Army vs. Navy - 1 EAC game each (for a total of 5 EAC games each

That's 10 games

Notre Dame - 4 full EAC teams (2 home/2 away) + 1 Navy game = 5 EAC games needed for membership

That's 15 games

8 full EAC teams (4 home/4 away) (1 additional game every other yr w/ ND)

Cincy's possible schedules....

2005
Home: UConn,WVU,Army,UL
Away: @ SU@ Pitt@ RU@ USF
Notre Dame: None

2006
Away:@UConn@WVU@Navy@UL
Home:SU,Pitt,RU,USF
Notre Dame: Away

2007
Home: UConn,WVU,Navy,UL
Away: @ SU@ Pitt@ RU@ USF
Notre Dame: None

2008
Away:@UConn@WVU@Army@UL
Home:SU,Pitt,RU,USF
Notre Dame: Home (Paul Brown Stadium)

This actually all seems crazy enough to work.

It couldn't possibly have a shred of possibility of ever happening.

Bearcat 1984, the agreement between BE/EAC and Army/Navy is for schedule purposes not to suggest that Army and Navy as member of BE/EAC. We should not consider them as member even in football only just a partner because they don’t play a full 8 conference games. Remember this relationship is for schedule convinces. The same thing with Notre Dame, they only play 4 conference games but not rotating through all 8 BE/EAC teams. Through this agreement, ND may play only Pitt, Cuse, UConn and RU all the time and no body else and meet 4 games again BE/EAC requirement. You have to look at this through eye of TV people when they consider the worth of BE/EAC football TV contract. They get a guarantee to show 2 ND games, 2 Army games and 2 Navy games every year, all national appeal.

Why would ND agree to this? They will have a home for their basketball and Olympic sports that is very competitive and still have independent football program. Can B10 offer ND such a sweet deal?

What about Army and Navy, why would they agree to this arrangement? They only play 4 BE/EAC games a year and get some kind of revenue shearing plus place in a pool of BE/EAC bowls. And with 8 more games they can schedule as they see fit.

Okay. I get it. Thanks for the clarification.

I personally think we should get them as members for football. But, a scheduling arrangement works well.

So... since they would not be offered a membership, what do they get from this? Some slice of the TV pie? Surely, they would not get to compete for any of our bowls like ND gets to steal a spot.

[quote]This relationship between Army/Navy and BE need not to be view as a conference member relationship but rather as mutual scheduling benefit both party. Where as an incentive for Army/Navy might be Big East bowl access (maybe another mutual benefit, more bowls spots for BE-Army/Navy ) and some TV contract revenue. Which mean future split between BE football/basketball doesn’t have any bearing on the relationship between Army/Navy and BE football agreement (hope it will happen). If it is easier to think Army/Navy as “partial members

Jackson1011 Wrote:-- Wilkie01.....from your comment I am guessing you think Louisville would oppose such an idea....can I ask why Louisville would be against it? Would the Cardinals rather have ECU for football only??

I'd be shocked if Louisville wanted ECU in the BE in any fashion. Whether or not to let ECU into CUSA was the reason Louisville was almost kicked out of CUSA.

Things change.

Comments were made about Navy playing teams like Delaware instead of teams like Pitt. To be honest, Pitt barely beat I-AA Furman this year in overtime, and they just barely got the game to overtime at that. Furman lost to an A-10 conference team in the I-AA playoffs. A-10 member New Hampshire beat Rutgers of the BE as well....

UDFan...its just the Big east board, don't worry about it.