Here's the post you were looking for on the Memphis board. Looks like Jeb was right after all...

<a href='http://www.courier-journal.com/cjsports/news2003/11/05bigeast/big-4-east-old-7013.html' target='_blank'>http://www.courier-journal.com/cjsports/ne...t-old-7013.html</a>

All that article says is that Army and ECU were added in expansion. Our opposition was focused at ECU and quite frankly we were right to oppose.

L-yes Wrote:All that article says is that Army and ECU were added in expansion. Our opposition was focused at ECU and quite frankly we were right to oppose.

Can you not read very well? The article clearly states that UL was threatened with expulsion.

I don't give a damn. You asked for proof on the Memphis board. I'm just providing you with the article from the LCJ. I never heard the expulsion story until it was published in the Louisville paper. I assume that it's true, but who cares now. It doesnt' matter.

The only reason that I posted this link was because you asked for proof. There it is.

I know we were threatened with expulsion, which is common knowledge. Go read that thread again; we were talking specifically about Army and not ECU. UofL was never threatened with expulsion over Army's inclusion in CUSA; Louisville never threatened to veto army's admission. Nothing in that article proves otherwise.

L-yes Wrote:I know we were threatened with expulsion, which is common knowledge. Go read that thread again; we were talking specifically about Army and not ECU. UofL was never threatened with expulsion over Army's inclusion in CUSA; Louisville never threatened to veto army's admission. Nothing in that article proves otherwise.

The article reads, "U of L was fighting football expansion tooth and nail, until C-USA finally decided to expel the school. Southern Mississippi President Aubrey Lucas said, 'We're tired of accommodating, making adjustments and allowances' for U of L, which finally relented. Army and East Carolina came in, and UofL was allowed to stay in a conference it was instrumental in founding."

You are saying that UL wanted Army, but didn't want East Carolina? The way I read the article, it implies that UL was against ANY EXPANSION. It reads that UL was "fighting football expansion tooth and and nail". It doesn't specify they were fighting against East Carolina, but they were O.K. with Army. I assume that means UL was against ALL football expansion. Both East Carolina AND Army.

Like I said, it doesn't really matter now, but why would UL be pro-Army and anti-East Carolina? I'm not trying to fight you on this one, because I don't know anything about the issue excpet for what I've read in this single article. I was just trying to help y'all settle a dispute, but now I'm curious as to why y'all would want Army in 1996 and not East Carolina. If I had to choose between the two I'd take East Carolina. Then or now.

One of the reasons Louisville could have wanted Army and not East Carolina is because Army would be football-only. In the case of East Carolina, yeah they were originally football-only, but it was pretty much a given that they would get All-Sports membership down the road. Louisville probably figured it would water down basketball. I do know that that was a concern on Cincinnati's part when it came to ECU being given football membership and, eventually, basketball membership down the road.

Judging by the records of both teams while in C-USA Louisville was right on about not wanting them in the conference... :)

But who cares now? That is the past, and I'm looking forward to a bright future in the Big East!

mlbUC Wrote:Judging by the records of both teams while in C-USA Louisville was right on about not wanting them in the conference... :)

But who cares now? That is the past, and I'm looking forward to a bright future in the Big East!

Exactly. For the sake of the point however CC hit the nail on the head. Louisville's position was that CUSA should parlay its strong suit, basketball, into growing its football prowess. Instead the direction CUSA went with when the ECU expansion occurred was a league that was content to become a jack of all trades and master of none.

In fact the Louisville vision was not unlike what we are seeing coming from the NBE. Talk of football only members for much the same reason Army was acceptable to CUSA. There is no panic mode to get to 9 teams much less 12 and a professed public desire to have a 9th member only if it adds tangible value to the league not just mediocre football and bad basketball.

Quote:Judging by the records of both teams while in C-USA Louisville was right on about not wanting them in the conference...

Then I guess Louisville should have never wanted Cincy in the Big East with them, since Cincy has a losing record overall in CUSA in football, while ECU doesn't.

UC might have a losing football record overall, but they at least have owned the conference in basketball. What has ECU done outside of being terrible in football for the past 3 or 4 years (and average before that), and killed the conference RPI in basketball. I don't know why we continue to have this discussion though, it has no bearing in the future. Also, giving your side of the argument does no good either since none of us vote on future members...

Some plan the Big East has there, L-Yes. Let's see, the Big East has a total of sixteen basketball schools. Seven of the sixteen don't play D1a football. Notre Dame, a basketball playing member, plays D1a football, they just don't want to play as a member of the Big East. Notre Dame also hijacks your best bowls when they have a certain record. Your commissoner wants to go to a 12 game regular season, which would require each football school to schedule five out of conference games. The AD's must be thrilled. On top of that big hodge/podge of a conference, there has been talk of adding two schools to play partial schedules. I guess Army/Navy could ware a patch on their uniforms that says Partial BiG East.

In the mean time, C-USA, the conference that lacks direction, now has a 12 school allsport conference.

Of all the conferences, the Big East sticks out like a sore thumb.

C-USA will compete with the Horizon League for conference supremecy in basketball next year, so I wouldn't exactly be talking up your "12 school allsport conference".

Maybe C-USA can talk ESPNU into putting on a Horizon League/C-USA challenge next year.

Memphis can lose to Butler.
UAB can lose to Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
Wright State can beat up on Houston.
ECU can get beat by UIC.

It would be great!

That, actually, might be a little rough for C-USA hoops next year. Maybe you guys should play against the Ivy League instead. Oh wait, I forgot, Princeton is in that league, they'd knock of C-USAs top team next year too...

L-Yes was talking about the vision of the Big East. My reply to his post was to show that the Big East has no vision. The Big East is just trying to survive. How does USF fit into that vision of strong basketball being the avenue to strong football? Memphis fits into that line of thinking a lot better than USF. Heck, Temple fits better than USF, if L-Yes theory is correct. Instead of telling me what's wrong with my post, all you can do is say, "we're better than you are". Only time will tell if the Big East can survive as it's currently structured. I just think you will see both inside & outside forces gradually tear the current Big East apart. We shall see.

Big East football wanted to keep a Florida footprint, that is how USF fits in. Outside of USF, the rest of the schools that have been added are very strong basketball schools (UC, UL, DePaul, and Marquette).

The Big East will be "torn apart", but that is planned for down the road. The football schools will totally split from the basketball only schools, which is when the Big East football schools will be looking for new members. At that point, Memphis probably would get a long look to be included in the new conference, but not before then (unless they accept a football only invite). ECU, in my opinion, is not an option for this conference due to the fact that it is isolated away from the rest of the schools and does nothing but kill the leagues RPI in basketball (not to mention the last few years of football).

Well, did I ever mention ECU? If it's ECU's goal to become a Big East member, no one on any message board will have a say. Why do you keep saying ECU has no chance? Your opinion holds no water with the decision makers of the Big East. ECU is down at this moment, but with strong leadership now in place, my Pirates are going to be winning in the three major sports real soon. On top of that, when our football starts winning again, ECU will outdraw most of the Big East.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Well, did I ever mention ECU? If it's ECU's goal to become a Big East member, no one on any message board will have a say. Why do you keep saying ECU has no chance? Your opinion holds no water with the decision makers of the Big East. ECU is down at this moment, but with strong leadership now in place, my Pirates are going to be winning in the three major sports real soon. On top of that, when our football starts winning again, ECU will outdraw most of the Big East.

That is exactly correct, yet ECU fans (not necessarily you) keep saying that the Big East has a deal lined up already, and now on the CUSA board I see that ECU fans are trying to sell themselves to SEC fans. It is pointless. Even discussing it seems dumb to me.

In terms of the no chance statement, at the moment ECU has no chance of making it. All of your athletic programs are in shambles, and will take time to rebuild. If ECU does turn it around then it could be a different story in a few years, but at this moment that looks like a big IF. Your basketball program also needs to be upgraded to respectability, because at the moment you would just kill the conference RPI. This is the reason why UC and UL wanted out of C-USA years ago (before a Big East invite was an option). Expanding a conference to only help 1 sport does nothing but dilute the other sports. C-USA looked to be a damn good basketball conference when it first started, but as soon as they started adding members to help football the basketball conference went in the tank. I will be pissed if the BE allows that to happen.

mlbUC Wrote:UC might have a losing football record overall, but they at least have owned the conference in basketball. What has ECU done outside of being terrible in football for the past 3 or 4 years (and average before that), and killed the conference RPI in basketball. I don't know why we continue to have this discussion though, it has no bearing in the future. Also, giving your side of the argument does no good either since none of us vote on future members...

Actually it does have some bearing considering that ECU is pushing itself as a 9th member.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Some plan the Big East has there, L-Yes. Let's see, the Big East has a total of sixteen basketball schools. Seven of the sixteen don't play D1a football. Notre Dame, a basketball playing member, plays D1a football, they just don't want to play as a member of the Big East. Notre Dame also hijacks your best bowls when they have a certain record. Your commissoner wants to go to a 12 game regular season, which would require each football school to schedule five out of conference games. The AD's must be thrilled. On top of that big hodge/podge of a conference, there has been talk of adding two schools to play partial schedules. I guess Army/Navy could ware a patch on their uniforms that says Partial BiG East.

In the mean time, C-USA, the conference that lacks direction, now has a 12 school allsport conference.

Of all the conferences, the Big East sticks out like a sore thumb.

It’s all set up for a split with stability for the basketball only members and the all-sport members. It gives the football conference time to stabilize itself and maintains NCAA auto-bids for both interests. There is no knee jerk visionless reaction occurring here. That is a welcome change from CUSA.

As for USF: You can afford to add crap basketball to a league that currently has Louisville, UC, Syracuse, Pitt, UCONN and West Virginia (all football playing members) ranked in the top 25. In the new All-Sport league only Rutgers and USF wouldnt be considered among the elite of college basketball.

Brick City Pirate Wrote:Well, did I ever mention ECU? If it's ECU's goal to become a Big East member, no one on any message board will have a say. Why do you keep saying ECU has no chance? Your opinion holds no water with the decision makers of the Big East. ECU is down at this moment, but with strong leadership now in place, my Pirates are going to be winning in the three major sports real soon. On top of that, when our football starts winning again, ECU will outdraw most of the Big East.

"three major sports"? Huh?

Saying that you had a just above .500 record in C-USA football does not help your cause when you have only won a couple games in each of the last 2 years. Like I said, unless ECU starts winning football games (8 wins or better year in and year out) AND they upgrade their basketball program to respectability I couldn't care less about having them in the Big East.